DC council thinking about giving every student $100k for college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's insane.

I don't think it's insane, but not too smart either to make public education another income-based entitlement. Other states have one in-state tuition, not several based on parents' income.

Other states give significant need based financial aid to in state students, which amounts to different tuitions based on parents' income. The system right now comes close to providing equity for high income DC families, as they can take their $10K, and bring tuition down to full instate tuition at a selection of universities, albeit far from every state university. But for low income kids the $10K doesn't even come close because their counterparts in other states are getting instate tuition PLUS financial aid reserved for state residents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the parent of a middle schooler in private school and I'm really bothered by this. I really didn't want to send my kid to private school. I threw myself into my local public elementary school, serving on the LSRT/LSAT and the PTA leadership and donating thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of my time. I did what I could to help my in-boundary middle school, working with the PTA there, serving as a volunteer, and doing the legwork to get grants for the school from non-profits.

But when my kid got to fifth grade I came to the conclusion that the in-boundary middle-school just wasn't there yet. We applied to the out-of-boundary and charter lotteries but didn't get in to any of our acceptable choices. We thought long and hard about selling our house and moving in-boundary for a better middle school, but the economics of that just didn't work. So we bit the bullet and shelled out for private middle school, confident that we would come back for high school.

I was embittered by this experience, I felt that my city had failed me. And now you're saying that since my city failed me I'm going to be shut out of this program? Since my city failed me once it's failing me twice?

Does your family make over $100K? If so, the grant is $5K, up to $25K for five years. Do families over $250K care about $5K per year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, people want it to extend to kids in privates or charters, but it should extend (even on a sliding scale) to those over $250K. I do think it's unfair. We make over $250K and put our kids in DCPS....so we're out! Many states are $50K out of state, so with DCTAG, you're looking at $160K for one student, 4 years. That's a hefty chunk of money.

Good point. There could be an income cap instead for kids in private school, but some aid for High HHI families who stick with DCPS/charters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's insane.

I don't think it's insane, but not too smart either to make public education another income-based entitlement. Other states have one in-state tuition, not several based on parents' income.

Other states give significant need based financial aid to in state students, which amounts to different tuitions based on parents' income. The system right now comes close to providing equity for high income DC families, as they can take their $10K, and bring tuition down to full instate tuition at a selection of universities, albeit far from every state university. But for low income kids the $10K doesn't even come close because their counterparts in other states are getting instate tuition PLUS financial aid reserved for state residents.

You are assuming that low income DCPS students don't get additional financial aid at state universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's insane.

I don't think it's insane, but not too smart either to make public education another income-based entitlement. Other states have one in-state tuition, not several based on parents' income.

Other states give significant need based financial aid to in state students, which amounts to different tuitions based on parents' income. The system right now comes close to providing equity for high income DC families, as they can take their $10K, and bring tuition down to full instate tuition at a selection of universities, albeit far from every state university. But for low income kids the $10K doesn't even come close because their counterparts in other states are getting instate tuition PLUS financial aid reserved for state residents.

You are assuming that low income DCPS students don't get additional financial aid at state universities.

You're right. I am assuming that based on the data I have as a high school teacher, looking at outcomes for my kid. Where do you get your information that tells you otherwise?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's insane.

I don't think it's insane, but not too smart either to make public education another income-based entitlement. Other states have one in-state tuition, not several based on parents' income.

Other states give significant need based financial aid to in state students, which amounts to different tuitions based on parents' income. The system right now comes close to providing equity for high income DC families, as they can take their $10K, and bring tuition down to full instate tuition at a selection of universities, albeit far from every state university. But for low income kids the $10K doesn't even come close because their counterparts in other states are getting instate tuition PLUS financial aid reserved for state residents.

You are nuts. What in-state universities are you talking about??? The state universities worth their salt cost over $30,000 per year so that $10,000 would not bring the cost down for DC students to what in-state students pay. DC students would still be paying a pretty high price compared to in-state students. Sure does not want to make you stay in DC when college time rolls around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's insane.

I don't think it's insane, but not too smart either to make public education another income-based entitlement. Other states have one in-state tuition, not several based on parents' income.

Other states give significant need based financial aid to in state students, which amounts to different tuitions based on parents' income. The system right now comes close to providing equity for high income DC families, as they can take their $10K, and bring tuition down to full instate tuition at a selection of universities, albeit far from every state university. But for low income kids the $10K doesn't even come close because their counterparts in other states are getting instate tuition PLUS financial aid reserved for state residents.

You are assuming that low income DCPS students don't get additional financial aid at state universities.

You're right. I am assuming that based on the data I have as a high school teacher, looking at outcomes for my kid. Where do you get your information that tells you otherwise?

The same source. My kids don't go in without a lot of financial assistance. If you are a bright student coming out of DCPA with very limited means there are plenty of smaller state schools which will offer major financial assistance. I had great placements at St. Mary's last year. Between the DC 10k and assistance from the school I had two go for less than 4k for the year. In previous years I have helped with great placements a state schools from VA to KY. With some guidance these kids can do very well and cheaply!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Does your family make over $100K? If so, the grant is $5K, up to $25K for five years. Do families over $250K care about $5K per year?

Yes.

[Anonymous]

This is a bad idea. Although I could personally benefit, from a policy perspective, it is just a terrible idea.

Worse still, the idea seems to be to booster living in DC by offering a "prize" to those families who go through DCPS for the upper grades. Here's a radical idea -- how about fixing what is wrong with this city so that people actually WANT to stay here rather than bribing people to stay.

Here's my fixes:
1. Eliminate the city income tax. Why drive away high earning people who would otherwise stay and spend money.

2. We already have a public university - University of the District of Columbia. What's wrong with it? If it can be fixed, then model it after the great universities and make it a place where kids from other areas compete to gain admission to. If it can't be fixed, then close it. There's plenty of other universities out there, and not many city government are in the university-running business.

3. Eliminate height restrictions and simplify the process to get a building permits. The city needs more affordable housing, why make it difficult to build.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a bad idea. Although I could personally benefit, from a policy perspective, it is just a terrible idea.

Worse still, the idea seems to be to booster living in DC by offering a "prize" to those families who go through DCPS for the upper grades. Here's a radical idea -- how about fixing what is wrong with this city so that people actually WANT to stay here rather than bribing people to stay.

Here's my fixes:
1. Eliminate the city income tax. Why drive away high earning people who would otherwise stay and spend money.

2. We already have a public university - University of the District of Columbia. What's wrong with it? If it can be fixed, then model it after the great universities and make it a place where kids from other areas compete to gain admission to. If it can't be fixed, then close it. There's plenty of other universities out there, and not many city government are in the university-running business.

3. Eliminate height restrictions and simplify the process to get a building permits. The city needs more affordable housing, why make it difficult to build.

UDC has open enrollment and a 12% graduation rate. You can't change a place like that into a competitive university.

[Anonymous]

Do Georgetown and GW not offer in-state tuition discounts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do Georgetown and GW not offer in-state tuition discounts?

As private schools why would they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a bad idea. Although I could personally benefit, from a policy perspective, it is just a terrible idea.

Worse still, the idea seems to be to booster living in DC by offering a "prize" to those families who go through DCPS for the upper grades. Here's a radical idea -- how about fixing what is wrong with this city so that people actually WANT to stay here rather than bribing people to stay.

Here's my fixes:
1. Eliminate the city income tax. Why drive away high earning people who would otherwise stay and spend money.

2. We already have a public university - University of the District of Columbia. What's wrong with it? If it can be fixed, then model it after the great universities and make it a place where kids from other areas compete to gain admission to. If it can't be fixed, then close it. There's plenty of other universities out there, and not many city government are in the university-running business.

3. Eliminate height restrictions and simplify the process to get a building permits. The city needs more affordable housing, why make it difficult to build.

UDC has open enrollment and a 12% graduation rate. You can't change a place like that into a competitive university.

Nor should they even consider such a change. DC needs a strong open enrollment school. Making UDC into a competitive school would leave many DC residents without a place to go. Open enrollment schools play an important role in serving young people who struggled in high school, recent immigrants, career changers, and other groups. They serve people who are working, and parenting, and going to school on the side. DC needs to ofer an education for these groups as well. The reality is that students who are competing for competitive schools are much more able to travel, and live in dorms, than the population that chooses an open enrollment program. Most states have both kinds of schools, flagships with competitive admissions, and local open enrollment, or close to open enrollment, schools that serve commuters. If DC doesn't have the resources, including population, to serve both sets, it makes much more sense to make UDC into the best open enrollment school it can (comparable to NVCC and Montgomery College), and figure out ways to support high performing kids attendance at other states' flagships.

[Anonymous]

This is a failure right out the gate. Parents stuck in the middle will eventually move out of the city once they begin to pay attention to the difference between out of state and in-state tuition. It's inevitable for many. Children who would benefit the most from this program, would have benefitted without the program. They are in that special target range where they would receive all types of financial aid. Hey subsidized college is for the poor and lower middle income. The rich kids are subsidized by their parents. And as usual, the middle class pay for everything. It's the American way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a failure right out the gate. Parents stuck in the middle will eventually move out of the city once they begin to pay attention to the difference between out of state and in-state tuition. It's inevitable for many. Children who would benefit the most from this program, would have benefitted without the program. They are in that special target range where they would receive all types of financial aid. Hey subsidized college is for the poor and lower middle income. The rich kids are subsidized by their parents. And as usual, the middle class pay for everything. It's the American way.

The bolded is a myth. A small proportion of highly competitve schools, comprising a far smaller percentage of students than they did when you and I were in school, are able to heavily subsidize low income kids. Average to above average students do not have access to that,unless it's through state aid thd DC kids don't get, and for low income kids in this category it can be very very difficult to access college.