s/o Do people attend religious services for the religious aspects, or for community?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should stick to the topic of the thread. Every thread that is driven purposefully off topic becomes a quagmire. Intellectual discourse is great; whatever happens when threads devolve into a verbal food fights is not. People can disagree thoughtfully. That doesn’t seem to happen here often.

It’s impossible to have any sort of intellectual discussion when people like OP misconstrue and twist what was said.

OP's thread title and first post are very clear that she's talking about multiple threads. Not about that particular thread you're so obsessed about.

Move on. It's impossible to have an intellectual discussion when you're either (a) deliberately misconstruing OP's thread header, (b) not capable of understanding OP's thread header, (c) one of those unwell posters who develops an obsessive vendetta against another poster and pursues it for pages, or (d) intent on derailing.

It says spin off right in the title and he pushed people to move over to this thread multiple times. Each time deliberately misconstruing what was said. Don’t gaslight - it’s all there for everyone to see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should stick to the topic of the thread. Every thread that is driven purposefully off topic becomes a quagmire. Intellectual discourse is great; whatever happens when threads devolve into a verbal food fights is not. People can disagree thoughtfully. That doesn’t seem to happen here often.

It’s impossible to have any sort of intellectual discussion when people like OP misconstrue and twist what was said.

OP's thread title and first post are very clear that she's talking about multiple threads. Not about that particular thread you're so obsessed about.

Move on. It's impossible to have an intellectual discussion when you're either (a) deliberately misconstruing OP's thread header, (b) not capable of understanding OP's thread header, (c) one of those unwell posters who develops an obsessive vendetta against another poster and pursues it for pages, or (d) intent on derailing.

It says spin off right in the title and he pushed people to move over to this thread multiple times. Each time deliberately misconstruing what was said. Don’t gaslight - it’s all there for everyone to see.

Move on, you're just wrong.

Answer the question about 20:49 and you'll have the "intellectual discussion" you claim to want. For someone who pretends to want "intellectual discussion," you sure are stuck on your OT personal vendetta against OP and resistant to responding to actual arguments like 20:49.

[Anonymous]

I already did earlier this morning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I already did earlier this morning.

You insulted Pew and displayed your ignorance about polling. That's not an answer. Pew has good numbers.

Address the content: most people, whether they go to church or not, actually believe. Only 4% of the US population are actually atheists. So it follows that the vast majority of your "cultural Christians," the ones raised Christian but who who don't go to church, actually still believe.

Any response to that? Or we'll just have to conclude that, poor you, you got beaten down on that other thread with your weird, highly personal vendetta against that OP, so now you're carrying on a different weird, highly personal vendetta against this OP. Maybe seek help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should stick to the topic of the thread. Every thread that is driven purposefully off topic becomes a quagmire. Intellectual discourse is great; whatever happens when threads devolve into a verbal food fights is not. People can disagree thoughtfully. That doesn’t seem to happen here often.

It’s impossible to have any sort of intellectual discussion when people like OP misconstrue and twist what was said.

No, not at all. it’s impossible for you to have an intellectual discussion when you don’t like or agree with the op. There are always different opinions on every single subject under the sun. There are intelligent ways to discuss every single subject under the sun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should stick to the topic of the thread. Every thread that is driven purposefully off topic becomes a quagmire. Intellectual discourse is great; whatever happens when threads devolve into a verbal food fights is not. People can disagree thoughtfully. That doesn’t seem to happen here often.

It’s impossible to have any sort of intellectual discussion when people like OP misconstrue and twist what was said.

No, not at all. it’s impossible for you to have an intellectual discussion when you don’t like or agree with the op. There are always different opinions on every single subject under the sun. There are intelligent ways to discuss every single subject under the sun.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I already did earlier this morning.

You insulted Pew and displayed your ignorance about polling. That's not an answer. Pew has good numbers.

Address the content: most people, whether they go to church or not, actually believe. Only 4% of the US population are actually atheists. So it follows that the vast majority of your "cultural Christians," the ones raised Christian but who who don't go to church, actually still believe.

Any response to that? Or we'll just have to conclude that, poor you, you got beaten down on that other thread with your weird, highly personal vendetta against that OP, so now you're carrying on a different weird, highly personal vendetta against this OP. Maybe seek help?

To recap, because boy did we get derailed...

Pew says 81% of people who attend religious services go because it's "very important" that they "be closer to God." Another 13% said being "closer to God" was "somewhat important" and only 4% said it wasn't important.

So it's pretty clear that the vast majority of folks who attend church actually have faith, and they don't just go to church for the social life.

Pew also surveyed the folks pp would call "cultural Christians," i.e., the folks who were raised Christian but attend church less than a few times a year (including zero times). Just 28% said it's because they don't believe, while 37% said "I practice my faith in other ways" and 23% said "I haven't found a church or house of worship I like." https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2018/08/...-religious-services/.

To be honest, I never understood pp's obsession with the cultural Christians because people who DON'T attend church are, by definition, NOT going for the social life or donuts. But anyway, Pew says even the great majority of these cultural Christians still believe.

We're done here, and with this argument some DCUM atheists have on repeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should stick to the topic of the thread. Every thread that is driven purposefully off topic becomes a quagmire. Intellectual discourse is great; whatever happens when threads devolve into a verbal food fights is not. People can disagree thoughtfully. That doesn’t seem to happen here often.

It’s impossible to have any sort of intellectual discussion when people like OP misconstrue and twist what was said.

OP's thread title and first post are very clear that she's talking about multiple threads. Not about that particular thread you're so obsessed about.

Move on. It's impossible to have an intellectual discussion when you're either (a) deliberately misconstruing OP's thread header, (b) not capable of understanding OP's thread header, (c) one of those unwell posters who develops an obsessive vendetta against another poster and pursues it for pages, or (d) intent on derailing.

It says spin off right in the title and he pushed people to move over to this thread multiple times. Each time deliberately misconstruing what was said. Don’t gaslight - it’s all there for everyone to see.

Move on, you're just wrong.

Answer the question about 20:49 and you'll have the "intellectual discussion" you claim to want. For someone who pretends to want "intellectual discussion," you sure are stuck on your OT personal vendetta against OP and resistant to responding to actual arguments like 20:49.

What can I say? I hate liars/people who twist the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I already did earlier this morning.

You insulted Pew and displayed your ignorance about polling. That's not an answer. Pew has good numbers.

Address the content: most people, whether they go to church or not, actually believe. Only 4% of the US population are actually atheists. So it follows that the vast majority of your "cultural Christians," the ones raised Christian but who who don't go to church, actually still believe.

Any response to that? Or we'll just have to conclude that, poor you, you got beaten down on that other thread with your weird, highly personal vendetta against that OP, so now you're carrying on a different weird, highly personal vendetta against this OP. Maybe seek help?

Polling numbers vary significantly. They depend on who actually responded. How the questions are phrased. What data is included/excluded.

Here’s another poll:


We’ve all seen how religious people twist the truth. I wouldn’t expect them to answer a poll sincerely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I already did earlier this morning.

You insulted Pew and displayed your ignorance about polling. That's not an answer. Pew has good numbers.

Address the content: most people, whether they go to church or not, actually believe. Only 4% of the US population are actually atheists. So it follows that the vast majority of your "cultural Christians," the ones raised Christian but who who don't go to church, actually still believe.

Any response to that? Or we'll just have to conclude that, poor you, you got beaten down on that other thread with your weird, highly personal vendetta against that OP, so now you're carrying on a different weird, highly personal vendetta against this OP. Maybe seek help?

Polling numbers vary significantly. They depend on who actually responded. How the questions are phrased. What data is included/excluded.

Here’s another poll:


We’ve all seen how religious people twist the truth. I wouldn’t expect them to answer a poll sincerely.

You understand that some religions don't involve a supernatural god or gods, right? And polls do vary, although it's weird 99% of DCUM's atheists love Pew and you're the sole exception.

Anyway, thanks for the gratuitous ad hominems, they add a lot to your argument. /s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should stick to the topic of the thread. Every thread that is driven purposefully off topic becomes a quagmire. Intellectual discourse is great; whatever happens when threads devolve into a verbal food fights is not. People can disagree thoughtfully. That doesn’t seem to happen here often.

It’s impossible to have any sort of intellectual discussion when people like OP misconstrue and twist what was said.

OP's thread title and first post are very clear that she's talking about multiple threads. Not about that particular thread you're so obsessed about.

Move on. It's impossible to have an intellectual discussion when you're either (a) deliberately misconstruing OP's thread header, (b) not capable of understanding OP's thread header, (c) one of those unwell posters who develops an obsessive vendetta against another poster and pursues it for pages, or (d) intent on derailing.

It says spin off right in the title and he pushed people to move over to this thread multiple times. Each time deliberately misconstruing what was said. Don’t gaslight - it’s all there for everyone to see.

Move on, you're just wrong.

Answer the question about 20:49 and you'll have the "intellectual discussion" you claim to want. For someone who pretends to want "intellectual discussion," you sure are stuck on your OT personal vendetta against OP and resistant to responding to actual arguments like 20:49.

What can I say? I hate liars/people who twist the truth.

You nurture vendettas against individual posters to the point where you're incapable of discussing actual arguments. That's just childish and unproductive, not to say unhealthy. Get help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I already did earlier this morning.

You insulted Pew and displayed your ignorance about polling. That's not an answer. Pew has good numbers.

Address the content: most people, whether they go to church or not, actually believe. Only 4% of the US population are actually atheists. So it follows that the vast majority of your "cultural Christians," the ones raised Christian but who who don't go to church, actually still believe.

Any response to that? Or we'll just have to conclude that, poor you, you got beaten down on that other thread with your weird, highly personal vendetta against that OP, so now you're carrying on a different weird, highly personal vendetta against this OP. Maybe seek help?

Polling numbers vary significantly. They depend on who actually responded. How the questions are phrased. What data is included/excluded.

Here’s another poll:


We’ve all seen how religious people twist the truth. I wouldn’t expect them to answer a poll sincerely.

Wait, how does this relate to "cultural Christians," which has been your personal hobby horse for this entire thread. Could you be *gasp, looks for fainting couch* twisting the arguments?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should stick to the topic of the thread. Every thread that is driven purposefully off topic becomes a quagmire. Intellectual discourse is great; whatever happens when threads devolve into a verbal food fights is not. People can disagree thoughtfully. That doesn’t seem to happen here often.

It’s impossible to have any sort of intellectual discussion when people like OP misconstrue and twist what was said.

OP's thread title and first post are very clear that she's talking about multiple threads. Not about that particular thread you're so obsessed about.

Move on. It's impossible to have an intellectual discussion when you're either (a) deliberately misconstruing OP's thread header, (b) not capable of understanding OP's thread header, (c) one of those unwell posters who develops an obsessive vendetta against another poster and pursues it for pages, or (d) intent on derailing.

It says spin off right in the title and he pushed people to move over to this thread multiple times. Each time deliberately misconstruing what was said. Don’t gaslight - it’s all there for everyone to see.

Move on, you're just wrong.

Answer the question about 20:49 and you'll have the "intellectual discussion" you claim to want. For someone who pretends to want "intellectual discussion," you sure are stuck on your OT personal vendetta against OP and resistant to responding to actual arguments like 20:49.

What can I say? I hate liars/people who twist the truth.

We see you on this forum constantly. You're the king/queen of twisting others' arguments and derailments. For you to feign outrage about someone else is pretty rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I already did earlier this morning.

You insulted Pew and displayed your ignorance about polling. That's not an answer. Pew has good numbers.

Address the content: most people, whether they go to church or not, actually believe. Only 4% of the US population are actually atheists. So it follows that the vast majority of your "cultural Christians," the ones raised Christian but who who don't go to church, actually still believe.

Any response to that? Or we'll just have to conclude that, poor you, you got beaten down on that other thread with your weird, highly personal vendetta against that OP, so now you're carrying on a different weird, highly personal vendetta against this OP. Maybe seek help?

To recap, because boy did we get derailed...

Pew says 81% of people who attend religious services go because it's "very important" that they "be closer to God." Another 13% said being "closer to God" was "somewhat important" and only 4% said it wasn't important.

So it's pretty clear that the vast majority of folks who attend church actually have faith, and they don't just go to church for the social life.

Pew also surveyed the folks pp would call "cultural Christians," i.e., the folks who were raised Christian but attend church less than a few times a year (including zero times). Just 28% said it's because they don't believe, while 37% said "I practice my faith in other ways" and 23% said "I haven't found a church or house of worship I like." https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2018/08/...-religious-services/.

To be honest, I never understood pp's obsession with the cultural Christians because people who DON'T attend church are, by definition, NOT going for the social life or donuts. But anyway, Pew says even the great majority of these cultural Christians still believe.

We're done here, and with this argument some DCUM atheists have on repeat.

Let's not lose site about the main takeaways here, which is that the vast majorities of (a) people who go to religious services and (b) people who don't go to religious services, are believers.

(PP's OT stats about atheists from Gallup notwithstanding, because the question wasn't about atheists, because their motivations are already obvious. The question was about the motivations of (a) the people who go to church and (b) the people who stay away from church but aren't atheist. Thanks for the lying, sneaky, derailment, atheist pp!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People should stick to the topic of the thread. Every thread that is driven purposefully off topic becomes a quagmire. Intellectual discourse is great; whatever happens when threads devolve into a verbal food fights is not. People can disagree thoughtfully. That doesn’t seem to happen here often.

It’s impossible to have any sort of intellectual discussion when people like OP misconstrue and twist what was said.

OP's thread title and first post are very clear that she's talking about multiple threads. Not about that particular thread you're so obsessed about.

Move on. It's impossible to have an intellectual discussion when you're either (a) deliberately misconstruing OP's thread header, (b) not capable of understanding OP's thread header, (c) one of those unwell posters who develops an obsessive vendetta against another poster and pursues it for pages, or (d) intent on derailing.

It says spin off right in the title and he pushed people to move over to this thread multiple times. Each time deliberately misconstruing what was said. Don’t gaslight - it’s all there for everyone to see.

Move on, you're just wrong.

Answer the question about 20:49 and you'll have the "intellectual discussion" you claim to want. For someone who pretends to want "intellectual discussion," you sure are stuck on your OT personal vendetta against OP and resistant to responding to actual arguments like 20:49.

What can I say? I hate liars/people who twist the truth.

We see you on this forum constantly. You're the king/queen of twisting others' arguments and derailments. For you to feign outrage about someone else is pretty rich.

Even pp's Gallup stats derail and twist the truth. Nobody was talking about atheists--we already know why they aren't in the pews. We were talking about the motivations of people who actually go to religious services, and about the motivations of "cultural Christians/Jews/Muslims" who were raised in a faith but don't attend. PP has nothing to add to that, just derailments. Pot, meet Kettle!