student admissions and TJ lawsuit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, bringing up racist tropes while discussing the accessibility of STEM programs is hilarious.

Yes, I see this all the time in the TJ threads. I have tried to point it out when it happens. Somebody thinks it’s very clever to refer to basketball/sneakers when we’re discussing fairness in the TJ application process.

Only racists see it that way.

Rest of us understand that different families have different priorities, some spend on basketball and others on academic enrichment, and few others like us on both.

Do only "racists" think this comment is racist?

"The AP test industry is unethical, keeps stolen past exam questions compiled as practice tests out of reach of many potential and capable students. Instead of listing these products under sports category right next to basketball shoes, they created a separate category called Books. Imagine the outrageous difficulty that puts for underrepresented minorities (except asian americans) to reach these products."

How many racist posts have made calling Asian American students preppers and test buyers?

There are many hundreds of racist posts that refer to brilliant hardworking asian american students as test buyers.
Just this AAP section alone has 73222 results

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/jforum.page?module=search&action=search&search_forum=60&match_type=all&sort_by=time&search_keywords=test+buying

Disturbing. How the heck can one person post so many racist messages? Hatred is a mental health disease

Every mental health problem can be treated, but the individual has to acknowledge the problem, and be open for treatment.

search for "test buy" reveals even more results with racist posts, and poster slyly uses "wealthy parents" to mean "asian american", even though most are from lower middle class.
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/jforum.page?module=search&action=search&search_forum=60&match_type=all&sort_by=time&search_keywords=test+buy

Citation?

Because looking at the hoards of kids who were coming from wealthy MSs before the change I find this hard to believe.

[Anonymous]

And were low MS families really shelling out thousands of dollars for expensive prep? I find that hard to believe. Seems like mostly an UMC thing.

One thing to note is that the group that benefited the most to the admissions change was low-income Asian students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Basketball achievements are pride of NoVa students. It must be talked about and celebrated just like academic TJ student accomplishments. Both require hardwork from student and family resources.

I agree we need to respect and appreciate student efforts based on their own interests, instead of forcing them to change those interests and see them struggle.

So the kids who are interested in TJ - the ones who apply - should be respected and appreciated.

That means you should stop throwing out racist comments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the previous quote is inappropriate given the context PP is trying to harp on here.

But the selective outrage gives them little credit as the claims of "test-buying" Asians are absolutely overflowing these threads. PP doesn't seem to be going around each of those and commenting on those.

I've reported many of the obvious anti-Asian comments. And, from what I've seen, most of the "test buying" comments are directed at affluent families, not Asian families.

Sure. Maybe. Point is no one knows whereas with these comments, you have made a relatively performative attempt to highlight them, hence the selective outrage comment. And in most cases, people will ignore your outrage as disingenuous no matter how many "Ive reported many" statements you make... and now seemingly conflating and explaining away "most."

More deflection. The comment I've reposted is truly terrible and deserves to be called out.

Do you believe that it's offensive?

“ The AP test industry is unethical, keeps stolen past exam questions compiled as practice tests out of reach of many potential and capable students. Instead of listing these products under sports category right next to basketball shoes, they created a separate category called Books. Imagine the outrageous difficulty that puts for underrepresented minorities (except asian americans) to reach these products. ”

Funny how posters keep deflecting and pretending like they don't understand it.

Ive already said it's inappropriate. I also explained how your selective outrage doesn't land so well. I'll be curious to see you call out future racist posts about "test-buying" Asians, but you won't.

I’ve reported anti-Asian comments before. Feel free to confirm with Jeff. I usually just report as “gross”. If any of the “test buying” comments are directed at Asian families I’ll call them out.

And you’ll call out the racist basketball/sneaker comments?

I don't call out anything other than your performative hypocrisy and outrage over some rando's comments about basketball.

Different poster here. You do understand that the basketball comments are made frequently on these threads, for example: comparing the NBA to TJ. It’s obvious what the writers of these posts are trying to do and anyone who act as though they don’t get it is either very, very inexperienced in life or not 100% telling the truth.

I don’t think these are random comments at all. I think that they are talking points that a number of different posters have been using for years.

I think we all agree the comments are inappropriate.

Then we move on to just pointing out that no one goes from thread to thread calling out the MANY comments about "test-buying Asians." It's very obvious what these posters are trying to do and insinuate. Definitely almost like talking points.

I haven’t seen that comment.

I have seen a lot of comments about advantaged families engaging test prep businesses. Some students have reported that employees of these businesses have asked the students to write down questions that appeared on the tests they were prepping for. I have heard this from students at TJ and also teachers who were told this by their students. These were kids from families who were educated and comfortable financially.

There is nothing racist about pointing out that well off families like to be able to give their children advantages in life, and there is nothing racist about pointing out that access to a sought-after public school program should be available to kids from families with a wide spectrum of financial and educational backgrounds, not just the well-off and educated.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the real problem is that URMs have underperformed at just about every turn in this social experiment.

This is untrue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the real problem is that URMs have underperformed at just about every turn in this social experiment.

This is untrue.

?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And were low MS families really shelling out thousands of dollars for expensive prep? I find that hard to believe. Seems like mostly an UMC thing.

One thing to note is that the group that benefited the most to the admissions change was low-income Asian students.

That is a lie. We are are low income, and never got off the waitlist. Of course, essay had no sob stories

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Basketball achievements are pride of NoVa students. It must be talked about and celebrated just like academic TJ student accomplishments. Both require hardwork from student and family resources.

I agree we need to respect and appreciate student efforts based on their own interests, instead of forcing them to change those interests and see them struggle.

I coach basketball in our recreational league, and my DC in AAP may someday apply to get into TJ. I can imagine the hardwork students put in to prepare for a successful TJ experience, if admitted. Similar to academic preparation in middle school, basketball also takes a lot of effort if not more in terms of player's personal commitment and family resources towards league fees, training classes, tournament fees, sports gear, etc. Nothing is free, everything needs to be paid for and valuable time needs to be invested. Behind every successful student player is their entire family supporting them.

Wishing your DC all the best. Academics is same, takes family commitment and resources as you highlight. My DC does basketball too and in AAP as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And were low MS families really shelling out thousands of dollars for expensive prep? I find that hard to believe. Seems like mostly an UMC thing.

One thing to note is that the group that benefited the most to the admissions change was low-income Asian students.

That is a lie. We are are low income, and never got off the waitlist. Of course, essay had no sob stories

U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit:
“ low-income Asian American students, as well as Asian American students attending middle schools theretofore poorly represented at TJ, saw far more offers of admission to TJ than they had in earlier years.” ”


Sookyung Oh, Director of Hamkae Center:
“Every parent wants to know their child will not be disadvantaged in our public education system. The decision today makes sure that students from communities of color, including Asian Americans, will not be disadvantaged by an unfair admissions process and will have the same equal access only previously afforded to those with the wealth and privilege to get their children into schools like TJ.”


Akil Vohra, Executive Director of Asian American LEAD:
“We applaud the Fourth Circuit Court’s decision today to affirm the right for all students to have access to quality education in schools like TJ. We need our children to see that the door to educational opportunity is open, for each of them.”

Niyati Shah, Director of Litigation for Asian Americans Advancing Justice - AAJC:
“When underrepresented communities of color have more access to educational opportunities, it benefits everyone, including Asian American and white students. In fact, as the Fourth Circuit found today, the policies adopted by FCPS result in Asian American students having ‘greater success in securing admission to TJ under the policy than students from any other racial or ethnic group.’ The makeup of TJ will now reflect the rich diversity of Fairfax County, including its under-served Asian American community, and draw in a student body from more than a select, socio-economically privileged set of middle schools."


https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/press-release/federal-appeals-court-upholds-constitutionality-thomas-jefferson-high-school

[Anonymous]

The whole "test-buying Asians" trope is a very dangerous one, and it conflates a number of different things that have happened.

What I'm assuming people are referring to is the situation at Curie, whose flagship TJ prep program was a $5,000 investment for 16 months of targeted coaching to the TJ Admissions process that included, according to named students from the Classes of 2022 and 2023, a few specific questions that had been re-used from form to form on the Quant-Q exam. This was a problem because the Quant-Q exam was purported to be "secured", with everyone who saw the exam being required to sign a statement agreeing not to discuss its contents.

The reason people are tagging the "Asian" on to this story is because Curie had a habit of publishing the first and last names of all of its students who successfully gained admission to TJ, AOS, or AET - and it was notable that literally 100% of the names on these lists would be of Asian, and specifically South Asian, descent. This raises questions, of course, as to the nature of Curie and its true mission

These people did not buy the test, they paid for a product that granted their children access to information about the test that they shouldn't have had, and in so doing skewed the admissions results for a couple of years. Because the semifinalist criteria were based on percentile achievement rather than raw score, it's easy to see how many students were likely booted out of the semifinalist pool because of this inappropriate (though not illegal) access.

What Curie did went beyond "prep" and entered into really problematic territory, though there is no reasonable way for them to be held accountable. And it's bothersome to me that the parents who benefited from this gap in the process seem to be so rejective to understanding that they paid for a boost that was unavailable to other students. You already have the prize - why are you so hell-bent on denying that you got a leg up?

But in the end, there's a very strong chance that this story at least in part motivated the changes to the admissions process, which has in effect had a significant negative impact on the ability of (apparently) South Asian parents to use their resources to create imbalances in the TJ admissions process.

There are almost certainly other racially and socioeconomically homogenous groups that were impacted by the changes (Kate Dalby in McLean serves mostly a wealthy white clientele, for example), but none of those other prep centers made the choice to publish the names of their successful students and open a window to criticism that they exist only to serve narrow populations.

[Anonymous]

gonna need a citation on this. Sounds made up by people who want to explain away achievement gaps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:gonna need a citation on this. Sounds made up by people who want to explain away achievement gaps.

You didn't quote anything so your "this" is unclear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Basketball achievements are pride of NoVa students. It must be talked about and celebrated just like academic TJ student accomplishments. Both require hardwork from student and family resources.

I agree we need to respect and appreciate student efforts based on their own interests, instead of forcing them to change those interests and see them struggle.

So the kids who are interested in TJ - the ones who apply - should be respected and appreciated.

That means you should stop throwing out racist comments.

YEs, back when all this was going on, Curie even took out an ad in the paper showing that one-third of TJ's entering class were their clients!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The whole "test-buying Asians" trope is a very dangerous one, and it conflates a number of different things that have happened.

What I'm assuming people are referring to is the situation at Curie, whose flagship TJ prep program was a $5,000 investment for 16 months of targeted coaching to the TJ Admissions process that included, according to named students from the Classes of 2022 and 2023, a few specific questions that had been re-used from form to form on the Quant-Q exam. This was a problem because the Quant-Q exam was purported to be "secured", with everyone who saw the exam being required to sign a statement agreeing not to discuss its contents.

The reason people are tagging the "Asian" on to this story is because Curie had a habit of publishing the first and last names of all of its students who successfully gained admission to TJ, AOS, or AET - and it was notable that literally 100% of the names on these lists would be of Asian, and specifically South Asian, descent. This raises questions, of course, as to the nature of Curie and its true mission

These people did not buy the test, they paid for a product that granted their children access to information about the test that they shouldn't have had, and in so doing skewed the admissions results for a couple of years. Because the semifinalist criteria were based on percentile achievement rather than raw score, it's easy to see how many students were likely booted out of the semifinalist pool because of this inappropriate (though not illegal) access.

What Curie did went beyond "prep" and entered into really problematic territory, though there is no reasonable way for them to be held accountable. And it's bothersome to me that the parents who benefited from this gap in the process seem to be so rejective to understanding that they paid for a boost that was unavailable to other students. You already have the prize - why are you so hell-bent on denying that you got a leg up?

But in the end, there's a very strong chance that this story at least in part motivated the changes to the admissions process, which has in effect had a significant negative impact on the ability of (apparently) South Asian parents to use their resources to create imbalances in the TJ admissions process.

There are almost certainly other racially and socioeconomically homogenous groups that were impacted by the changes (Kate Dalby in McLean serves mostly a wealthy white clientele, for example), but none of those other prep centers made the choice to publish the names of their successful students and open a window to criticism that they exist only to serve narrow populations.

I think you're the only one saying test buying Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole "test-buying Asians" trope is a very dangerous one, and it conflates a number of different things that have happened.

What I'm assuming people are referring to is the situation at Curie, whose flagship TJ prep program was a $5,000 investment for 16 months of targeted coaching to the TJ Admissions process that included, according to named students from the Classes of 2022 and 2023, a few specific questions that had been re-used from form to form on the Quant-Q exam. This was a problem because the Quant-Q exam was purported to be "secured", with everyone who saw the exam being required to sign a statement agreeing not to discuss its contents.

The reason people are tagging the "Asian" on to this story is because Curie had a habit of publishing the first and last names of all of its students who successfully gained admission to TJ, AOS, or AET - and it was notable that literally 100% of the names on these lists would be of Asian, and specifically South Asian, descent. This raises questions, of course, as to the nature of Curie and its true mission

These people did not buy the test, they paid for a product that granted their children access to information about the test that they shouldn't have had, and in so doing skewed the admissions results for a couple of years. Because the semifinalist criteria were based on percentile achievement rather than raw score, it's easy to see how many students were likely booted out of the semifinalist pool because of this inappropriate (though not illegal) access.

What Curie did went beyond "prep" and entered into really problematic territory, though there is no reasonable way for them to be held accountable. And it's bothersome to me that the parents who benefited from this gap in the process seem to be so rejective to understanding that they paid for a boost that was unavailable to other students. You already have the prize - why are you so hell-bent on denying that you got a leg up?

But in the end, there's a very strong chance that this story at least in part motivated the changes to the admissions process, which has in effect had a significant negative impact on the ability of (apparently) South Asian parents to use their resources to create imbalances in the TJ admissions process.

There are almost certainly other racially and socioeconomically homogenous groups that were impacted by the changes (Kate Dalby in McLean serves mostly a wealthy white clientele, for example), but none of those other prep centers made the choice to publish the names of their successful students and open a window to criticism that they exist only to serve narrow populations.

I think you're the only one saying test buying Asians.

DP. It's actually you who are saying it, not PP.