Fighting school district re: FAPE and LRE for preschooler. Anyone experienced this?

[Anonymous]

I have an HFA 3 year old and we're in a school district that only provides developmental preschool services to kids with IEP. There are no typical peers in the class.

According to IDEA and multiple guidance documents from the U.S. Dept of Education, if the school district doesn't provide regular preschools, to meet the LRE requirement, kids with IEPs can be placed in "regular" preschools with non-disabled children (Head Start, private, etc.) at no cost to the family. The school district is clearly in non-compliance with the LRE requirement for preschoolers, but continues to fight me on this. I think we need to go to due process.

Does anyone have experience with these types of situation, or know of such cases? How were they resolved? TIA!

[Anonymous]

This is an interesting situation. I never thought about this before but you are right that FAPE and LRE seems to apply for preschool. In our area, MCPS and FCPS, most of the preschool SN programs are separate and parents are so happy they are getting the free services in that I don't think most of them think about having their child with typically developing peers in those classrooms.

In any case these programs are usually only a few hours a day/week so most parents I know pay for regular preschool or enrichment classes on their own. Good luck, OP, but I wonder if your child will age out of preschool by the time you get this resolved.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, in my 5 years on this journey (sounds trite) the biggest bill of goods I've been sold is typical peer exposure. It is the least important thing for my kid and in some circumstances, detrimental. That being said, at that age I fought the school system for other things with an advocate. You would then move to a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting situation. I never thought about this before but you are right that FAPE and LRE seems to apply for preschool. In our area, MCPS and FCPS, most of the preschool SN programs are separate and parents are so happy they are getting the free services in that I don't think most of them think about having their child with typically developing peers in those classrooms.

MCPS offers collab programs in PEP with mixed kids. This is probably what OP is referring to.

In any case these programs are usually only a few hours a day/week so most parents I know pay for regular preschool or enrichment classes on their own. Good luck, OP, but I wonder if your child will age out of preschool by the time you get this resolved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting situation. I never thought about this before but you are right that FAPE and LRE seems to apply for preschool. In our area, MCPS and FCPS, most of the preschool SN programs are separate and parents are so happy they are getting the free services in that I don't think most of them think about having their child with typically developing peers in those classrooms.

In any case these programs are usually only a few hours a day/week so most parents I know pay for regular preschool or enrichment classes on their own. Good luck, OP, but I wonder if your child will age out of preschool by the time you get this resolved.

I know that in FCPS, there have been "community members" that are typically developing kids in their preschool classes. My son was one of the 2 kids. I'm pretty sure this doesn't apply to the PAC program. But for a special ed preschool program where a child with HFA would likely attend, this set-up would meet OP's needs.

[Anonymous]

My guess is that there (probably legitimate) defense is that because there are NO programs available to other students, the special needs program is, in fact, the least restrictive environment that can meet your child's need. There is no other alternative.
I'm confused about what you want. Do you want the distrcit to just pay for the preschool placement at a regular preschool? How will that help meet the needs of your child as laid out in the IEP? How will services be rendered for your child in that scenario?
Private placements are used when the school district can't meet the child's needs within the available programs/classrooms. A private, not-special-needs preschool doesn't have any special resources that the district doesn't, and in fact will give your child fewer resources than in the district programs.

I know there are lots of districts around here that have programs with "peer" students and special needs students. But if that isn't the program available, I'm having a hard time seeing how the district paying for a private preschool gets you where you want to be or what your child needs.

[Anonymous]

I'm also confused about what you want/need, OP.

I would say that if your son needs a lot of support and isn't getting it and isn't doing well in school because of that, then you need to make a stink. If he is happy in school and making good enough progress, I'd let it go and save your energy for bigger fights down the road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting situation. I never thought about this before but you are right that FAPE and LRE seems to apply for preschool. In our area, MCPS and FCPS, most of the preschool SN programs are separate and parents are so happy they are getting the free services in that I don't think most of them think about having their child with typically developing peers in those classrooms.

In any case these programs are usually only a few hours a day/week so most parents I know pay for regular preschool or enrichment classes on their own. Good luck, OP, but I wonder if your child will age out of preschool by the time you get this resolved.

I know that in FCPS, there have been "community members" that are typically developing kids in their preschool classes. My son was one of the 2 kids. I'm pretty sure this doesn't apply to the PAC program. But for a special ed preschool program where a child with HFA would likely attend, this set-up would meet OP's needs.

My DS was also in an FCPS non-cat special ed preschool that had 1-2 'peer models' (NT kids).

[Anonymous]

We were in FCPS, noncat special ed program, WITHOUT any peer models. Every child had an IEP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My guess is that there (probably legitimate) defense is that because there are NO programs available to other students, the special needs program is, in fact, the least restrictive environment that can meet your child's need. There is no other alternative.
I'm confused about what you want. Do you want the distrcit to just pay for the preschool placement at a regular preschool? How will that help meet the needs of your child as laid out in the IEP? How will services be rendered for your child in that scenario?
Private placements are used when the school district can't meet the child's needs within the available programs/classrooms. A private, not-special-needs preschool doesn't have any special resources that the district doesn't, and in fact will give your child fewer resources than in the district programs.

I know there are lots of districts around here that have programs with "peer" students and special needs students. But if that isn't the program available, I'm having a hard time seeing how the district paying for a private preschool gets you where you want to be or what your child needs.

How is that a legitimate defense? There are programs available to other children. The fact that children without disabilities are paying tuition for them is not relevant. OP's child is entitled to free education in an inclusive setting.

Research is really clear that inclusive placements are best. LRE is the law. If people just accept the current situation, and don't advocate for federal law to be followed, then the situation is never going to change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My guess is that there (probably legitimate) defense is that because there are NO programs available to other students, the special needs program is, in fact, the least restrictive environment that can meet your child's need. There is no other alternative.
I'm confused about what you want. Do you want the distrcit to just pay for the preschool placement at a regular preschool? How will that help meet the needs of your child as laid out in the IEP? How will services be rendered for your child in that scenario?
Private placements are used when the school district can't meet the child's needs within the available programs/classrooms. A private, not-special-needs preschool doesn't have any special resources that the district doesn't, and in fact will give your child fewer resources than in the district programs.

I know there are lots of districts around here that have programs with "peer" students and special needs students. But if that isn't the program available, I'm having a hard time seeing how the district paying for a private preschool gets you where you want to be or what your child needs.

How is that a legitimate defense? There are programs available to other children. The fact that children without disabilities are paying tuition for them is not relevant. OP's child is entitled to free education in an inclusive setting.

Research is really clear that inclusive placements are best. LRE is the law. If people just accept the current situation, and don't advocate for federal law to be followed, then the situation is never going to change.

I'm not clear if there are free programs available to NT children in the OPs district. In MCPS, preschool services are offered to PK3 NT kids whose parents pay tuition and there are a limited number of community spaces. PK4 preschool services are offered to NT children whose families meet certain income levels. MCPS does not provide universal preschool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My guess is that there (probably legitimate) defense is that because there are NO programs available to other students, the special needs program is, in fact, the least restrictive environment that can meet your child's need. There is no other alternative.
I'm confused about what you want. Do you want the distrcit to just pay for the preschool placement at a regular preschool? How will that help meet the needs of your child as laid out in the IEP? How will services be rendered for your child in that scenario?
Private placements are used when the school district can't meet the child's needs within the available programs/classrooms. A private, not-special-needs preschool doesn't have any special resources that the district doesn't, and in fact will give your child fewer resources than in the district programs.

I know there are lots of districts around here that have programs with "peer" students and special needs students. But if that isn't the program available, I'm having a hard time seeing how the district paying for a private preschool gets you where you want to be or what your child needs.

How is that a legitimate defense? There are programs available to other children. The fact that children without disabilities are paying tuition for them is not relevant. OP's child is entitled to free education in an inclusive setting.

Research is really clear that inclusive placements are best. LRE is the law. If people just accept the current situation, and don't advocate for federal law to be followed, then the situation is never going to change.

You also have to pick and choose what is the most important for your child, at this time. My DC had an IEP from 2nd grade through 12th. He graduated last month. In some form or other there was at least a technical denial of FAPE every. single. year. Yes, every single year- some were more egregious than others. Those were the ones in which we pushed back hard. You need to also build up a relationship and trust. If you go in with your guns blazing every time, they will not take you seriously and you will not get as much for your child. FAPE and IDEA and all the others are the ceiling, not the floor on which to build.

Save your energy for your child and every thing else that you will need to do as the years go by. You are in it for the long haul and it is best not to burn yourself out in the first few years. Fight for what you can get and supplement the rest. If you are in FCPS, I don't know about preschool but for K-12 private placement is extremely rare and mostly used for children with severe ED issues.

IDEA does not say "best" it says "appropriate". Do not go in there asking for the best placement, you will get no where. LEA's are not required to find the best placement only one that is appropriate (think "good enough").

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My guess is that there (probably legitimate) defense is that because there are NO programs available to other students, the special needs program is, in fact, the least restrictive environment that can meet your child's need. There is no other alternative.
I'm confused about what you want. Do you want the distrcit to just pay for the preschool placement at a regular preschool? How will that help meet the needs of your child as laid out in the IEP? How will services be rendered for your child in that scenario?
Private placements are used when the school district can't meet the child's needs within the available programs/classrooms. A private, not-special-needs preschool doesn't have any special resources that the district doesn't, and in fact will give your child fewer resources than in the district programs.

I know there are lots of districts around here that have programs with "peer" students and special needs students. But if that isn't the program available, I'm having a hard time seeing how the district paying for a private preschool gets you where you want to be or what your child needs.

How is that a legitimate defense? There are programs available to other children. The fact that children without disabilities are paying tuition for them is not relevant. OP's child is entitled to free education in an inclusive setting.

Research is really clear that inclusive placements are best. LRE is the law. If people just accept the current situation, and don't advocate for federal law to be followed, then the situation is never going to change.

I'm not clear if there are free programs available to NT children in the OPs district. In MCPS, preschool services are offered to PK3 NT kids whose parents pay tuition and there are a limited number of community spaces. PK4 preschool services are offered to NT children whose families meet certain income levels. MCPS does not provide universal preschool.

Whether or not there are free programs for NT children is irrelevant. If programs exist that serve NT kids, whether they are public or private, and OP's child is entitled by law to a free education in a setting with NT kids, then the school district needs to figure out a way for the child to attend such a program (whether that's building their own program, or paying tuition at a community program), and provide whatever supports needed to make that program successful.

OP, I'm not offering legal advice. I'm not saying it would be an easy fight, but there's no doubt that this is what the law requires.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My guess is that there (probably legitimate) defense is that because there are NO programs available to other students, the special needs program is, in fact, the least restrictive environment that can meet your child's need. There is no other alternative.
I'm confused about what you want. Do you want the distrcit to just pay for the preschool placement at a regular preschool? How will that help meet the needs of your child as laid out in the IEP? How will services be rendered for your child in that scenario?
Private placements are used when the school district can't meet the child's needs within the available programs/classrooms. A private, not-special-needs preschool doesn't have any special resources that the district doesn't, and in fact will give your child fewer resources than in the district programs.

I know there are lots of districts around here that have programs with "peer" students and special needs students. But if that isn't the program available, I'm having a hard time seeing how the district paying for a private preschool gets you where you want to be or what your child needs.

How is that a legitimate defense? There are programs available to other children. The fact that children without disabilities are paying tuition for them is not relevant. OP's child is entitled to free education in an inclusive setting.

Research is really clear that inclusive placements are best. LRE is the law. If people just accept the current situation, and don't advocate for federal law to be followed, then the situation is never going to change.

"Best" is not federal law. Appropriate is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, in my 5 years on this journey (sounds trite) the biggest bill of goods I've been sold is typical peer exposure. It is the least important thing for my kid and in some circumstances, detrimental. That being said, at that age I fought the school system for other things with an advocate. You would then move to a lawyer.

I have a 12 yo and I tend to disagree. It is very hard to get some kids back into an inclusive classroom once they have been isolated in a Special ed only class.