Key bridge in Baltimore collapses after cargo ship crashes into it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think people are suggesting they raise or rebuild the bay bridge.
But it's reasonable to think long-term with the bridge and perhaps build the key bridge taller. Then, at some point in the future when the bay bridge does need to be replaced, the new key bridge will already be higher.
If you keep building to the lowest height, it will just be a vicious circle that will never increase.

The bay bridge does need to be replaced because it is even older than the Key bridge and it is way over capacity (esp eastbound which is only 2 lanes). And as a poster mentioned above the state looked into it, did exhaustive studies and had two sites they thought about adding even ANOTHER bridge (one north and one south of the current one) but ultimately decided to keep what they have now and perhaps widen it. If there were projections to increase height, they’d be doing it with these studies. They didn’t. So I know in your mind it seems reasonable and you’re holding onto that with an iron fist but I’m telling you it’s not in the cards for the people who make these decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i just read that it will take a year to clear the harbor and 10 years to rebuild the bridge.

None of this is simple.

For comments like this, it would be useful if you could identify the source where you “just read” something, even if you don’t provide any supporting details. So far I’ve read things online from maritime sources and from people quoting random other people posting on FB or Yahoo. The credibility of the sources is not the same.

It’s hard to know exactly how long it will take to “clear the harbor” although credible sources (see what I mean?) that I’ve read are talking “weeks” to get the shipping channel navigable. Similarly, funding and resources haven’t been nailed down re: rebuilding the bridge, and I haven’t seen anything yet about assessments to determine if what’s left of the current bridge can be reused in some way — which would impact any timeframes.

The President has guaranteed full federal responsibility for the cost of replacing the bridge, I saw that on TV. And while he also referenced expectation of Congressional support, there are already funds available to begin the project under the already passed infrastructure bill that includes a fund for bridge repair/replacement. https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/biden-harris-administration-opens-applications-over-9-billion-funding-modernize

Thanks. I heard that too. Since I’m not entirely sure how all this actually works, I’ve been waiting to learn more details about the Congressional support piece. Or, perhaps you and/or others who are knowledgeable can tell me if Biden alone — or any President — actually can “guarantee full federal responsibility for the cost of a project” with a completion schedule that will likely extend beyond their term in office. I truly hope this is the case.

The Administration can patch this together via transportation & emergency funding. There are several mega grant programs included in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law that could be utilized at the President's discretion. Ordinarily the federal cost share on a project like this is 80%, but I believe they may be able to find the other 20% through emergency funds. Congress could pass some type of emergency authorization of funds for the project. Congress could also earmark some project funds to help move this forward (although earmarks are relatively small in size these days). It will be a patchwork, but most infrastructure projects are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i just read that it will take a year to clear the harbor and 10 years to rebuild the bridge.

None of this is simple.

For comments like this, it would be useful if you could identify the source where you “just read” something, even if you don’t provide any supporting details. So far I’ve read things online from maritime sources and from people quoting random other people posting on FB or Yahoo. The credibility of the sources is not the same.

It’s hard to know exactly how long it will take to “clear the harbor” although credible sources (see what I mean?) that I’ve read are talking “weeks” to get the shipping channel navigable. Similarly, funding and resources haven’t been nailed down re: rebuilding the bridge, and I haven’t seen anything yet about assessments to determine if what’s left of the current bridge can be reused in some way — which would impact any timeframes.

The President has guaranteed full federal responsibility for the cost of replacing the bridge, I saw that on TV. And while he also referenced expectation of Congressional support, there are already funds available to begin the project under the already passed infrastructure bill that includes a fund for bridge repair/replacement. https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/biden-harris-administration-opens-applications-over-9-billion-funding-modernize

Thanks. I heard that too. Since I’m not entirely sure how all this actually works, I’ve been waiting to learn more details about the Congressional support piece. Or, perhaps you and/or others who are knowledgeable can tell me if Biden alone — or any President — actually can “guarantee full federal responsibility for the cost of a project” with a completion schedule that will likely extend beyond their term in office. I truly hope this is the case.

The Administration can patch this together via transportation & emergency funding. There are several mega grant programs included in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law that could be utilized at the President's discretion. Ordinarily the federal cost share on a project like this is 80%, but I believe they may be able to find the other 20% through emergency funds. Congress could pass some type of emergency authorization of funds for the project. Congress could also earmark some project funds to help move this forward (although earmarks are relatively small in size these days). It will be a patchwork, but most infrastructure projects are.

Insurance will pay a great deal of this. There are a lot of sweaty Lloyds investors right now!

[Anonymous]

I cannot go throught 42 pages of this thread:

How did the survivor who walked away -- walk away?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I cannot go throught 42 pages of this thread:

How did the survivor who walked away -- walk away?

I read an interview that his wife gave anonymously to a Spanish speaking station. She said he told her he was in a truck eating when the bridge fell, he swam to safety and was in too much shock to speak about it. She wouldn’t give any more details and we may never know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was a good take by a shipping expert.

https://slate.com/business/2024/03/baltimore-bridge-collapse-francis-scott-key-maryland-deaths.html

Just want to thank you for the link and recommend others read it. It put a lot of stuff into perspective for me and dispels some junk commentary floating around about certain aspects of the incident.

PP. Thank you, I’m an engineer and I found the context of the shipping industry very helpful. And I think he is right that the new bridge will be bigger and higher. I remember when the roadway on the Bayonne bridge in ny was raised to accommodate new Panamax ships. Those bigger ships became popular because the Panama Canal got new locks which allowed bigger boats. So what he is saying about the suez size constraint makes sense. Interesting read.

Raising the bridge won't change the size constraint because any ship coming into Baltimore needs to fit under the Bay Bridge.

Taxpayers paid almost $2 billion dollars to “raise” the Bayonne bridge. You don’t think new bridges that span harbors will be preemptively designed for larger ships?

I mean that’s great for those people but that doesn’t have anything to do with the Bay Bridge. I live in Stevensville in QAC and cross the bridge almost every day. Maryland just finished a several year study and expensive study on whether to replace the bridge or build a new bridge at 2 different sites and in the end decided to just keep the bridge as is. They are currently replacing the eastbound deck. They’re not raising the bridge, not in our lifetime.

https://mdta.maryland.gov/BayBridgeEastboundDeckReplacementProject

Infrastructure isn’t built for our lifetimes. If you think otherwise there’s a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell you.

Lol let’s raise a bridge that is tall enough. 😜

Are u guys this stupid.

I know off hand of three other bridges that have plans to be raised or replaced due to height. One in nc, one in sc, and one in Savannah. The one in Savannah was originally planned to be raised, but they decided to replace instead, because even after raising, they wouldn’t be ready for the next generation of cargo ships. So sure, maybe it won’t happen in Baltimore. Charleston and Savannah will be happy to take that business off their hands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this was China, the bridge would be rebuilt by now.

Perhaps I say this in jest (probably more like a week or two rather than a few days) but watching the rebuilding will say a lot about America's capabilities. But I do have confidence the bridge will be rebuilt much faster than many are thinking.

When I-95 in Philadelphia collapsed everyone here was sure the incompetent government would take years to fix it. It ended up being about 3 weeks.

Bridges are obviously projects that take years, not weeks, but so far it seems like all of the right people and organizations are dedicated to rebuilding this as efficiently and effectively as possible.

Sometimes it's OK to not assume the worst.

That's a half-truth. It wasn't fixed. They backfilled the underpass to get it open quickly. The real fix will take much longer.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/heavily-traveled-i-95-is-set-to-reopen-less-than-two-weeks-after-deadly-collapse-in-philadelphia

The got I-95 open in three weeks, which is what the fix was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think people are suggesting they raise or rebuild the bay bridge.
But it's reasonable to think long-term with the bridge and perhaps build the key bridge taller. Then, at some point in the future when the bay bridge does need to be replaced, the new key bridge will already be higher.
If you keep building to the lowest height, it will just be a vicious circle that will never increase.

The bay bridge does need to be replaced because it is even older than the Key bridge and it is way over capacity (esp eastbound which is only 2 lanes). And as a poster mentioned above the state looked into it, did exhaustive studies and had two sites they thought about adding even ANOTHER bridge (one north and one south of the current one) but ultimately decided to keep what they have now and perhaps widen it. If there were projections to increase height, they’d be doing it with these studies. They didn’t. So I know in your mind it seems reasonable and you’re holding onto that with an iron fist but I’m telling you it’s not in the cards for the people who make these decisions.

Typical MD leaders. Small minds. No vision. No guts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this was China, the bridge would be rebuilt by now.

Perhaps I say this in jest (probably more like a week or two rather than a few days) but watching the rebuilding will say a lot about America's capabilities. But I do have confidence the bridge will be rebuilt much faster than many are thinking.

When I-95 in Philadelphia collapsed everyone here was sure the incompetent government would take years to fix it. It ended up being about 3 weeks.

Bridges are obviously projects that take years, not weeks, but so far it seems like all of the right people and organizations are dedicated to rebuilding this as efficiently and effectively as possible.

Sometimes it's OK to not assume the worst.

That's a half-truth. It wasn't fixed. They backfilled the underpass to get it open quickly. The real fix will take much longer.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/heavily-traveled-i-95-is-set-to-reopen-less-than-two-weeks-after-deadly-collapse-in-philadelphia

The got I-95 open in three weeks, which is what the fix was.

I sincerely hope you don't work for the government.

[Anonymous]

One of the survivors escaped by doing exactly what experts recommend as your best chance, which is getting a window open and crawling out of the window.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still confused how the shipping container hit the pillars even if it did lose power…

There would be no control of the vessel, and the water has currents that push a ship about.

Why couldn’t the shipping container drop anchor and stay put in the middle of the river, until help could get to them? Why did they decide to just drift with no power, especially at night? That seems so reckless.

They did drop anchor. Anchors don't stop ships that size instantly. They drag and slow things down, but they take a few miles to stop. The ship did slow down before it hit, because of the anchor they dropped, and because they fired up generators and threw the engines in reverse, but there wasn't enough time. They were too close.

Also even if you do drop an anchor and it catches and stops, a ship that size will swing around in large circles around the anchor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this was China, the bridge would be rebuilt by now.

Perhaps I say this in jest (probably more like a week or two rather than a few days) but watching the rebuilding will say a lot about America's capabilities. But I do have confidence the bridge will be rebuilt much faster than many are thinking.

When I-95 in Philadelphia collapsed everyone here was sure the incompetent government would take years to fix it. It ended up being about 3 weeks.

Bridges are obviously projects that take years, not weeks, but so far it seems like all of the right people and organizations are dedicated to rebuilding this as efficiently and effectively as possible.

Sometimes it's OK to not assume the worst.

I don’t have a lot of confidence watching this American legion bridge expansion.

How fast do you think this bridge can be built by?

Dh jokingly said 10 years. I’m thinking two years minimum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this was China, the bridge would be rebuilt by now.

Perhaps I say this in jest (probably more like a week or two rather than a few days) but watching the rebuilding will say a lot about America's capabilities. But I do have confidence the bridge will be rebuilt much faster than many are thinking.

When I-95 in Philadelphia collapsed everyone here was sure the incompetent government would take years to fix it. It ended up being about 3 weeks.

Bridges are obviously projects that take years, not weeks, but so far it seems like all of the right people and organizations are dedicated to rebuilding this as efficiently and effectively as possible.

Sometimes it's OK to not assume the worst.

I don’t have a lot of confidence watching this American legion bridge expansion.

How fast do you think this bridge can be built by?

Dh jokingly said 10 years. I’m thinking two years minimum.

Somehow it takes 2 months to fix a pothole or 2 years to put in a traffic light where there have been fatalities, but when it affects states’ gdp, things get moving

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this was China, the bridge would be rebuilt by now.

Perhaps I say this in jest (probably more like a week or two rather than a few days) but watching the rebuilding will say a lot about America's capabilities. But I do have confidence the bridge will be rebuilt much faster than many are thinking.

When I-95 in Philadelphia collapsed everyone here was sure the incompetent government would take years to fix it. It ended up being about 3 weeks.

Bridges are obviously projects that take years, not weeks, but so far it seems like all of the right people and organizations are dedicated to rebuilding this as efficiently and effectively as possible.

Sometimes it's OK to not assume the worst.

I don’t have a lot of confidence watching this American legion bridge expansion.

How fast do you think this bridge can be built by?

Dh jokingly said 10 years. I’m thinking two years minimum.

Obviously a simpler case, but after the I-35W bridge collapse in Minneapolis, they rebuilt the bridge in about a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the survivors escaped by doing exactly what experts recommend as your best chance, which is getting a window open and crawling out of the window.

The other one who didn't go to hospital wasn't part of the construction crew and seemed to reach a part of the bridge that didn't collapse in time, which is probably why he didn't need to go to hospital. https://www.wdbj7.com/2024/03/29/baltimore-bridge-collapse-victims-include-worker-who-fell-185-feet-survived-by-swimming/