Suspicious deaths.

[Anonymous]

This story is so awful. It just hurts my heart in so many ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this couple didn't want people to find out what was happening in their home. I had come across stories of them on adoption boards. Very sad. It is eerily like the Turpins. A family who kept their kid isolated (homeschooling, rarely going outside, no external friends) and took them on trips (pictures for facebook). Seems the call to CPS led to them deciding death was a better option than being found out.

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/lesbian-mums-jennifer-and-sarah-hart-who-drove-family-off-cliff-had-violent-history/news-story/c496b4706d4b5df51c550585ee2d03bf

Their choice of pants alone makes me question their sanity. Why did the government keep allowing them to adopt? These kids would have been better off in the foster system. At least they would still be alive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can be an amazing parent outside the walls of the home, and a complete nightmare behind closed doors.

x10000

Abusive spouses are known for this - they have the "nicest person" act absolutely perfected. i guarantee that of the "nicest" people you know (usually men) there are a good number of abusers. In the cases I am familiar with, the "nicest" man is emotionally and/or physically and/or verbally abusive on the regular, and the wife is "nice" as a coping mechanism. It is sad and horrifying.

[Anonymous]

I’m glad other people are furious about this. I feel terrible about the kids. But I knew shit was shady when I saw the police officer picture and realized who the family was. Sadly they never gave a damn about the kids...only a ploy to advance their political narratives. Sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m glad other people are furious about this. I feel terrible about the kids. But I knew shit was shady when I saw the police officer picture and realized who the family was. Sadly they never gave a damn about the kids...only a ploy to advance their political narratives. Sad.

Yes. Plenty of adopted families out there, most aren't dragging their young kids to emotionally intense and potentially dangerous protests. When I saw the famous photo I thought "How old is that kid? Who dressed him? Who made him hold that sign?" Stunk like a photo op dreamed up by an adult who designed it to go viral.

Let kids be kids, especially ones that (according to the news reports) had been abused by birth parents or whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was searching for days on this topic in the dcum forum. Was wondering what took so long to start one.

I can't believe those kids were not removed after the one mom plead guilty to child abuse.

It would not surprise me if these moms had mental health issues and were on antipsychotics.

I think this one creates dissonance for this board. This was a left leaning family, lesbians, mixed race, adoptive parents. Doesn't fit the narrative of who many people want to see as child abusers.

I used this incident over the weekend as a teaching moment for my son to show him how the same news story can be told from many different perspectives based on the biases of the sources.

We also discussed how the 5 stages of grief weigh into accounts and reportings. Those who knew them are likely in stages of anger and denial. I am fairly convinced that this is not a pretty picture and that it will continue to get uglier as more facts come out, despite efforts at spin control. As we learned from Watergate, it is rarely about the crime and more often about the coverup. This family was presented as a "poster-unit" from the left, and all of that is likely to come back in ways that they can't control.

We also discussed how "box checking" affected the reporting. How would the reporting of this story differ if the political and sexual orientation of the parents was different, ditto the racial makeup of the family unit? A lot of the info will come out in the form of "I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin." Were signs missed simply because it is no longer politically correct to see signs?

A comment from one source even blamed it all on "the nosy hompophobic neighbors and none of this would have happened if they hadn't interfered." I guess to some that a kid breaking into your house at 130AM and hiding constitutes "nosy" Sheeeeeesh! I feel badly for those neighbors who I now suspect must be wondering if the outcome had been different had they called CPS sooner. But at the same time, I'm from Portland. I know how Portland is, and I also would have to be thinking about the blowback when it was revealed that I had reported the lesbians next door. I will not be surprised if they are painted as the villains. So we must wonder if the system itself has created an atmosphere of non-reporting. I no longer have mandatory reporter status since I retired, and around here that is a relief. It will be interesting to see if any of the people who claim to be close to the family change their stories over time. Denial of a problem is a powerful defensive force.

For these reasons, police have been slow to release information. Recently it was announced that the speedometer was pegged at 90, indicating that the accelerator was all the way down, and wheels free of a load will allow the engine and transmission to quickly max out in the 3 seconds of fall between the bluff and impact. They also revealed no contact between the vehicle and cliff face on the way down, so it was essentially airborne. I really do not see any way this cannot be ruled as felony suicide / murder in the end.

We used to have a summer house near Anchor Bay so I am very familiar with that highway. Yeah, it is super dangerous if you don't pay attention. But this incident did not happen in one of those spots, even though some news stories imply that was the case by omitting selective facts.

[Anonymous]

First of all, the image people display to the outside world is not always what is going on at home. I respect that there are people who had positive interactions and relationships with the Harts and thought all was well because it is likely that they did put on a positive front regardless of how good or bad the home life was.

It's totally possible to me that this family was doing well, but over time, things could have changed and the parent(s) coping skills, parenting, and disciplinary habits changed in response. It may be that totally "normal" stressors like financial troubles had an role. It could be that as the children aged, the couple wanted more control and there was a battle for independence (this seems fairly common in abusive situations - as a child begins to want to leave home or grow up, a parent who doesn't want to lose control becomes more restrictive and controlling). It could be that the kids had totally normal and understandable behavioral issues from being adopted out of abusive situations that flared up in adolescence and the parents became abusive (the assault charge involved one of the parents spanking a child far too aggressively) in response. It's also possible they've always been asshole abusers in some capacity and hid it well over time and then stopped hiding it so well.

It's absolutely tragic to me for the neighbor who called CPS to get help for the kids. That couple saw something, reported it as you're supposed to do, and now feel responsible for the parents murdering their children in what I imagine was a panicked response to their veil of normalcy being removed. I hope the woman who called CPS and reported the situation can get some sort of therapy because in some articles, it seems as though she feels extremely guilty and she shouldn't.

It's possible to me that the other three children's bodies were somehow lost in the water, or maybe they were killed and left elsewhere. If they were alive and with friends or something, they'd know where they are by now.

Absolutely tragic overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:lesbian?

Point?

[Anonymous]

I can’t help but wonder if they left on the trip with this plan, if it was spontaneous in that moment, if both moms were in on it or just the one driving etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every time I see a large family (especially with teenagers) in those matchy matchy tee shirt pictures, I am going to get creeped out and wonder WTH is going on behind closed doors.

These women were using these children as props to make themselves look grand and then not taking care of them, isolating them and outright abusing them at home. If those women had wanted to die like that, why couldn't they have let the children live?

Yep, when social experiments go bad...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m glad other people are furious about this. I feel terrible about the kids. But I knew shit was shady when I saw the police officer picture and realized who the family was. Sadly they never gave a damn about the kids...only a ploy to advance their political narratives. Sad.

Yes. Plenty of adopted families out there, most aren't dragging their young kids to emotionally intense and potentially dangerous protests. When I saw the famous photo I thought "How old is that kid? Who dressed him? Who made him hold that sign?" Stunk like a photo op dreamed up by an adult who designed it to go viral.

Let kids be kids, especially ones that (according to the news reports) had been abused by birth parents or whatever.

Appears the kids were being used like pawns in an extremist political crusade; being dragged to protests while the adoptive "parents" frequently withheld food as punishment.

Sad that CPS could not have done more to save the children before the adoptive moms killed them all.

[Anonymous]

Are they certain the missing three kids were in the car when it crashed? Maybe they were able to run away before this happened.

The article doesn't say much about that. Perhaps three kids are still alive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For parts of my childhood my mom was in a really bad place mentally. I was really afraid she would do this to me. I think people don't realize that in these situations you're often the frog in the pot slowly brought to a boil. As things slowly get worse, weirder, scarier, you aren't living in the normal world where you can easily recognize that behavior isn't normal. For my dad and other family members, they knew my mom was acting crazy, but they couldn't admit how bad it had gotten.

Would your dad have ignored the authorities beating on his door in order to protect your abusive mother? Would he have gone to court and lied about abuse in order to cover up your mom's abuse?
Would he have presented a picture perfect happy family to the world in matchy matchy tee shirts knowing full well that you were being neglected and beaten at home? Would he have attended political rallies and demonstrations while keeping silent about your abuse at home?

Your dad was probably in survival mode as well as denial and he very likely did not have access to friends in "the system" like this woman appeared to have access to.

I'm sorry that you went through all of that.

Multiple posts have mentioned the matching t-shirts. When you are in charge of a lot of kids in a public place, it's easier to keep track of everyone if you're all wearing the same shirts. Schools do this all the time. Please don't start placing stereotypes on large families if you see matching shirts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids all look small for their age as well. They are short for being 14-19 mostly (I think one girl was 12).

No one was 19 in that photo. It was taken in 2014. Yes, they were still small, but tweens/teenagers change a lot in 4 years. Some would have been under 10 in that photo.

I can't find any pics where they look like a family of teens. I found one from 2016 and they didn't look much older than the pic with the blue shirts.

What is it with people who abuse their kids and dressing them all in matching clothes? Is it to take away their individuality?

Also similar to Turpins it seems these kids had no social media presence and were not online. Yet parents were.

Yes. I think you hit the nail on the head. Sickening.

Frankly, I suspect any parent who dresses their kids in matching outfits and/or exerts an unusual amount of control/attention over what their kids wear is a control freak of sorts. On a far lesser scale, I've seen examples of parents like this and watched as they had a difficult time acknowledging/accepting that their children are their own individuals. I think this behavior is generally a precursor to conflict when the child becomes an adult.

Now, I'm not talking about parents who want their kids to wear clean and presentable clothes or have some reasonable rules about appropriate clothing or want their kids to look nice for special events. I'm talking about parents who literally invest a lot of attention in picking out what their kids wear or insist their kids wear matching clothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For parts of my childhood my mom was in a really bad place mentally. I was really afraid she would do this to me. I think people don't realize that in these situations you're often the frog in the pot slowly brought to a boil. As things slowly get worse, weirder, scarier, you aren't living in the normal world where you can easily recognize that behavior isn't normal. For my dad and other family members, they knew my mom was acting crazy, but they couldn't admit how bad it had gotten.

Would your dad have ignored the authorities beating on his door in order to protect your abusive mother? Would he have gone to court and lied about abuse in order to cover up your mom's abuse?
Would he have presented a picture perfect happy family to the world in matchy matchy tee shirts knowing full well that you were being neglected and beaten at home? Would he have attended political rallies and demonstrations while keeping silent about your abuse at home?

Your dad was probably in survival mode as well as denial and he very likely did not have access to friends in "the system" like this woman appeared to have access to.

I'm sorry that you went through all of that.

Multiple posts have mentioned the matching t-shirts. When you are in charge of a lot of kids in a public place, it's easier to keep track of everyone if you're all wearing the same shirts. Schools do this all the time. Please don't start placing stereotypes on large families if you see matching shirts.

My grandmother had 6 kids. She never made them wear matching clothing in public, and she always managed to keep track of them.

As for schools, it's different if you are talking about 30 or more kids wearing matching colors/t-shirts.