Pre Nup - did you sign?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I decided to not add in extras and agreed to sign the document because it has no teeth and is basically the law. IL's agree to drop all child rearing requirements. My fiancé told me not to sign it unless I was absolutely OK with it. He's pretty sure it was his father's personal attorney who was behind it because its the first child getting married. He's not going to tell his father that the document has no legal teeth but someday he will figure it out and probably fire the attorney for not knowing the law.

Why do you assume his attorney didn't know the law? He may well have known the entire time (could even have advised his client of this). People want what they want, even when they hear advice from a professional. If the dad is a control freak or worried, he may have felt this was peace of mind, enforceable or not, helpful or not.

The other issue is whether the law changes between now and such time as you may divorce. You didn't mention your state but in many states you can contract around presumptions of separate and marital property so it's a belt and suspenders type of thing. As another PP suggested the agreement may also waive spousal support for one or both of you which may or may not be an issue given your earning potential. It may also address the division of property outside of the inheritance. On the issue of child support I am not aware of any state that allows you to use a pre-marital agreement to waive child support.

[Anonymous]

Out of curiosity, what were the child-rearing components? I think lots of parents think the pre nup is some sort of safety factor, so I don't really judge them for that--- however, the religion stuff could be an indicator of bigger troubles down the road.

[Anonymous]

OP is only interested in protecting her financial position. People here have warned her about the red flags about the guy himself, the family that may be way too involved. But I guess that doesn't matter to her as much. I wonder if he would really be ok with her not signing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I told my fiancé that child rearing demands are unacceptable and he agrees and he already told his parents. I listened to the conversation and he made it clear to them it was off the table. I'm meeting with a lawyer today to better understand the financial stuff. If inheritances and trusts are already protected from a divorce then a prenup might add little except make his parents feel better. Regardless, they are not doing their best to make me feel welcome. If I can't get comfortable with it my fiancé said he has no problem with me not signing it.

If you agree that a prenup is a good idea (and given his crazy family stuff, I think it is), then you two and your lawyers should write it. Not his parents, and not his parents' lawyers.

+1

Signed,
Someone who used to work in family law.

DEFINITELY have your own lawyer write it. No f-ing question. (The things I have seen...)

Lawyer here and it doesn't necessarily matter who drafts the agreement so long as OP has competent counsel. OP's lawyer will read the provisions and explain the impacts of the provisions and propose modifications to the agreement as needed. Per OP's follow up post now that they're only dealing with the financial issues it should be fairly straightforward.

Plus 1. I think it's cheaper too. I don't pay as much as I would if my lawyer drafted from scratch and then also went through the other parties changes. Her and I both read the drafts thoroughly and edit as needed.

[Anonymous]

The problem isn't that he wants you to sign a prenup.

The problem is that he didn't discuss this with you, that his FAMILY sent you the letter without a word from him.

And then he got angry with you for wanting your own legal counsel.

I'm not opposed to prenups, but there are so many issues here.

I think this is a red flag that his family is going to try to dictate how you live your lives.

You should walk away from this. He won't go against his family because he isn't financially independent and relies on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I decided to not add in extras and agreed to sign the document because it has no teeth and is basically the law. IL's agree to drop all child rearing requirements. My fiancé told me not to sign it unless I was absolutely OK with it. He's pretty sure it was his father's personal attorney who was behind it because its the first child getting married. He's not going to tell his father that the document has no legal teeth but someday he will figure it out and probably fire the attorney for not knowing the law.

What do you mean "has no teeth"?

Also, as another PP pointed out, a lot depends on what state you are in. It's possible that in your fiance's parents' state, inheritances can be considered community property (or there are loopholes).

If you and your spouse move to another state and are residents there and then divorce, it will depend on the laws in that state.

I find it highly difficult to believe that your fiance's 1 percenter parents have a lawyer who doesn't understand prenups, etc.

Has your fiance actually asked his parents specifically why they want the prenup signed? If what it suggests is ALREADY the law, then my view would be, why sign? It's unnecessary.

Furthermore, if you're going to go to the trouble of having a prenup, you might as well use it to protect yourself.

Just my 2 cents.

I'd also still take all of this as a red flag. If you think OP's parents are really going to back off on the religious stuff, you're fooling yourself. The mere fact that they would want to do that should be a red flag.

But good luck.

[Anonymous]

This is a tough decision.

Friend of mine met girl online that had a kid from previous marriage. He owned a home, great job, car and a child. She had never owned a home, hadn't worked in a while and was living with relatives. It was love at first site and they got married. That was about 18 months ago. Now it is a new kinda hell for him. A prenup was mentioned and advised by several friends and family but he thought that mentioning it would offend her and make her mad so he didn't and they married. Things started to unravel about 6 months after they married. About a year after he filed for divorce. She got a lawyer and as suspected she is going after 1/2 of everything. 401k, house she is even trying for visitation with his child and she wants child support and alimony (she never did get a job)

Prenups are good and the negotiation is at a time when both people will be the most generous that they ever will be. If friend had one in place he wouldn't be faced with selling his home and handing over 1/2 the proceeds and 1/2 of a significant 401k

[Anonymous]

You're an idiot if you sign something believing that it "has no legal teeth."

[Anonymous]

Good thing he protected himself from you, golddigger.

[Anonymous]

People who sign documents they assume are legally defective often get an unpleasant surprise.

[Anonymous]

OP same thing happened to me without the child rearing demands. We were the first to get married, IL's never asked BIL's wife to sign one after I signed one. That caused huge resentment.
We are having our 20 anniversary this year. BIL is divorced and she took half.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The childrearing stuff is intensely invasive. I would draw a line in the sand and reject it. Of course that may mean they help less paying for schools.

The other stuff may make sense. The scenario they want to avoid is you divorcing and getting a large share of their wealth; or your spouse dying, you inheriting, and then your second husband and kids getting their family wealth; or you impacting family businesses.

This is a good point. Although inheritances already are not community property in the case of a divorce, what happens when one spouse dies before the other? Is it different if there are kids? If there are no kids? If the inheritance has already been passed down or not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a tough decision.

Friend of mine met girl online that had a kid from previous marriage. He owned a home, great job, car and a child. She had never owned a home, hadn't worked in a while and was living with relatives. It was love at first site and they got married. That was about 18 months ago. Now it is a new kinda hell for him. A prenup was mentioned and advised by several friends and family but he thought that mentioning it would offend her and make her mad so he didn't and they married. Things started to unravel about 6 months after they married. About a year after he filed for divorce. She got a lawyer and as suspected she is going after 1/2 of everything. 401k, house she is even trying for visitation with his child and she wants child support and alimony (she never did get a job)

Prenups are good and the negotiation is at a time when both people will be the most generous that they ever will be. If friend had one in place he wouldn't be faced with selling his home and handing over 1/2 the proceeds and 1/2 of a significant 401k

Your friend is kinda stupid. You need new friends.

[Anonymous]

There is SO much wrong with this guy and his family and your relationship that I honestly don't even know where to start.

PPs have said it pretty well. The verdict is that you should not marry this kid. Or his family, I should say, since that's who you'd actually be marrying.

And for the love of god, whatever you do, please do NOT have any kids with him. They don't deserve to be put in the middle of what cannot possibly turn out as anything other than a shit storm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hope he at least told you to expect the letter from his attorney--if not, why not?

+1