Photo essay -- living with debt in America

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I double majored in History and English, because I loved studying them. People consistently told me you can do ANYTHING with these degrees

LOL, who on EARTH told you that?

NP here. That's exactly what my (high school graduate) parents told me as well. I was kind of aimless in college and majored in art. Ran up 24k in debt. I've never had a high paying job (topped out at 43k) but I still managed to pay off the debt in only a few years, simply by living very frugally. I'm not much of a career-oriented person, but at least I have the "talent" of not being high maintenance. Age 36, net worth 220k. So no, I don't feel too sorry for many of these people who got into debt from college and credit cards.

Medical bills are another story. No one chooses to be sick or injured. It can happen to anybody and will impoverish anyone who isn't already rich or very well insured. I wouldn't judge anyone choosing not to pay the full hospital bills - they are outrageous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I double majored in History and English, because I loved studying them. People consistently told me you can do ANYTHING with these degrees

LOL, who on EARTH told you that?

NP here. That's exactly what my (high school graduate) parents told me as well. I was kind of aimless in college and majored in art. Ran up 24k in debt. I've never had a high paying job (topped out at 43k) but I still managed to pay off the debt in only a few years, simply by living very frugally. I'm not much of a career-oriented person, but at least I have the "talent" of not being high maintenance. Age 36, net worth 220k. So no, I don't feel too sorry for many of these people who got into debt from college and credit cards.

How do you have a net worth of 220k when you're 36 and you topped out at $43k after running up $24k in debt? The math isn't working here.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand the pressure on college kids to major in something "useful." These days, in the US, you can't be a professional without at least a master's degree. It's your graduate education that needs to be something useful. I majored in something that ends in "Studies" -- the definition of not useful -- but I did well on the LSATs and got into a T14 law school.

I would tell my kids to major in whatever they like, with the understanding that it will be their eventual graduate degree that will get them a "real" job.

[Anonymous]

I'm amazed at parents who don't save, AT ALL, for their children's education. I read the blog of this woman who has 7 (yes, seven) children who seems proud of her decision to not have saved a dime for her children's education. Had no problem getting herself a full boob job and tummy tuck recently, but college savings? No way. Infuriating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm amazed at parents who don't save, AT ALL, for their children's education. I read the blog of this woman who has 7 (yes, seven) children who seems proud of her decision to not have saved a dime for her children's education. Had no problem getting herself a full boob job and tummy tuck recently, but college savings? No way. Infuriating.

The way that fin.aid calculations are made, especially at top schools, does seem to penalize middle-class parents for having saved, though. I was looking at Columbia U (my alma mater) and for a family at our income level, where we would qualify for some need-based fin.aid but not a ton, savings will generally be counted against us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went on college recruiting trips in the past. One day, a student came up to me with sad eyes and said, "I know you don't have anything for me because I am in liberal arts". If you KNEW your degree is not marketable and will not provide you with a stable financial footing, why waste time, effort and money?

Because they value education? Because a liberal arts degree can get you into a great masters degree program? Because our society desperately needs thinkers?

I agree with you, but sadly, we have to face reality. You need a marketable skill, too.

That's what graduate school is for.

[Anonymous]

Not to derail the thread, but there are several reasons why a college degree isn't worth more than a high school diploma was a generation or two ago.

First, the job market now requires skills that aren't taught in high school. How many high schools teach basic accounting, computer skills (like Word, PowerPoint, Excel, Visio, etc...)?

Second, high school kids aren't pushed to think about what they want to do after they graduate. High school students are spoon fed facts, figures, etc... without any practical context for what they're learning. For example, rather than force students to read "the Classics," why not teach subjects like Principles of Leadership/Management, or similar courses that quote from the Classics. A good book is "The 48 Laws of Power," which while teaching amoral concepts a-la Machiavelli, is an excellent compendium of wisdom from hundreds of Classical books on leadership.

Third, parents are less engaged in their kids' lives because both parents are working full-time jobs to pay for the "necessities" of life. Parents aren't around to teach life skills, help kids with their homework, keep them out of trouble, etc...

I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture. So what's the solution? There isn't a single magic bullet, but finding a workable solution requires that we quit forgetting what's important - the transformation of our children of fully-functioning, successful adults. They're the ones who will be running this country some day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These days, in the US, you can't be a professional without at least a master's degree....I majored in something that ends in "Studies" -- the definition of not useful -- but I did well on the LSATs and got into a T14 law school.

You sound like the idiot here...on both accounts. Graduate degree creep is a problem and you're contributing to it. One reason why people encourage their kids to major in something "useful" is so they don't have to waste years and $100k on grad school when they don't have to. Only in DC and other elitist cities is a master's required for jobs that don't truly need them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These days, in the US, you can't be a professional without at least a master's degree....I majored in something that ends in "Studies" -- the definition of not useful -- but I did well on the LSATs and got into a T14 law school.

You sound like the idiot here...on both accounts. Graduate degree creep is a problem and you're contributing to it. One reason why people encourage their kids to major in something "useful" is so they don't have to waste years and $100k on grad school when they don't have to. Only in DC and other elitist cities is a master's required for jobs that don't truly need them.

Many of the masters degrees are only employable in DC stuff like public policy, government etc... really dumb stuff fed into the Federal government cycle of jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These days, in the US, you can't be a professional without at least a master's degree....I majored in something that ends in "Studies" -- the definition of not useful -- but I did well on the LSATs and got into a T14 law school.

You sound like the idiot here...on both accounts. Graduate degree creep is a problem and you're contributing to it. One reason why people encourage their kids to major in something "useful" is so they don't have to waste years and $100k on grad school when they don't have to. Only in DC and other elitist cities is a master's required for jobs that don't truly need them.

Many of the masters degrees are only employable in DC stuff like public policy, government etc... really dumb stuff fed into the Federal government cycle of jobs.

Not true. Those kinds of degrees work all over the country - wherever there is a state/local government. Somebody has to draft legislation, analyze it, write the reports that form the administrative record (which no one will read until a lawsuit requires the judge dig into the intent of the legislature), or heaven forbid, lobby for various special interest groups.

[Anonymous]

I think a lot of this comes down to whether kids go to college to learn things that interest them vs. graduate with a career.

In my (Asian) household, it was made 100% clear from a young age that you'd go to an ivy/top 10 undergrad + professional school -- and bc that would be a financial sacrifice for you and your parents (they paid most of it but I have loans too) -- you would 100% be going there to prepare yourself for a career. The career options were -- investment banking/consulting; law -- corporate/biglaw, not being a public defender; medicine; dentistry; and if you turned out not to be a strong student -- you also had the options of accounting and/or pharmacy. Most Asian households are very pro engineering, and in retrospect if us kids wants to pursue it, our parents would have been ok with it but my dad was an engineer his whole life and saw first hand how quickly and easily U.S. companies can outsource jobs to China or India or anywhere where students have strong math skills; so he was against engineering where layoffs can be fairly continuous and you're constantly looking to make sure your next gig is lined up.

Now my American friends thought my parents were ridiculous in demanding that we not study history or English or whatever bc it doesn't pay, and I 100% agree with them and will be pushing my kids in the same directions; frankly if they find a true passion for philosophy, I see nothing wrong with a philosophy minor if it's tacked on to a finance major. For everyone on here saying liberal arts teaches you critical thinking -- I get it but once those 4 yrs are over, then you have to go out there and convince the mortgage company or the utility or whoever why you really want to be an associate in their corporate finance department -- bc chances are you are not going to get a job where you're analyzing Shakespeare all day, you will have to carve out a "corporate" path with a salary, benefits, and 401k. Much easier if you start out with a finance major and an MBA from Stanford -- no need to convince anyone that you really WANT to be in that field.

And for everyone who says -- I want my kids to do what makes them happy. Kids have no idea what they want. In Asian households, education and professions are talked about since elementary schools and it's very clear that doctor/lawyer >>>> junior high science teacher. With that kind of thinking in their ear since age 10, it's no wonder that when they get to 12th grade, these kids themselves seek out the top physics program or finance program or whatever -- it becomes what THEY want.

[Anonymous]

I am one of the ones who is NOT against student debt, but I think parents have to know their kids and be honest re their kid and his/her work ethic, interests etc -- which is something parents do less and less of these days as every snowflake is a star.

There are certain kinds of kids who will go to Wharton undergrad or a top 10 law school or med school -- graduate with 150-200k in debt -- and will have NO problem slogging it out in investment banking, biglaw, or a high end specialty. Those kinds of kids are really into their school/work and don't see it as a particularly big deal to work 70-100 hrs a week for yrs to pay off debt, make money, and continuously get better at their jobs. For those types -- staggering debt isn't as big of a deal. However those kinds of kids are few and far between in their intelligence and work ethic and if you have that kind of kid -- you probably know it. For every 1 of those that I know, I know 10 in biglaw who are 2nd yr associates whining about how much they work and are basically ready to quit having not even done this for 18 months; they are the types who went to law school when they realized their English degree wasn't particularly employable, had the grades/stats for a top law school, did well enough in law school to get a biglaw job, and are now STUNNED by how many hours someone will ask you to work when they are paying you a high salary. I have to believe their parents knew those kids were smart but had lots of other life interests which weren't sympatico with billing 80 hrs a week (or being a cardiologist or being an investment banking associate) -- and perhaps should have discouraged the acquisition of such incredible debt by folks who "burn out" after 1 yr of 80 hrs/wk and are now jumping to 40 hr a week non profit jobs.

[Anonymous]

Grrrr grrrrr says the scary tiger mom..

[Anonymous]

In Asian households, education and professions are talked about since elementary schools and it's very clear that doctor/lawyer >>>> junior high science teacher.

Junior high science teachers helped those Asian kids get to doctor/lawyer. Just saying.

[Anonymous]

And for everyone who says -- I want my kids to do what makes them happy. Kids have no idea what they want.

Disagree.