I looked up that the average percent of 504s in schools is 12 percent. That's about 250 students at my child's school. Even at $4000 extra per student that is $1 million extra per school. Much more money coming in than just paying the 504 coordinator and even a portion of an overall coordinator for the school system. That easily funds about 8 or so positions and about 4 hours of the 504 coordinator's time per student per each coordinator before it becomes "a burden" on one person. Where is this money going? There aren't extra resources. I'm not sure it's a funding problem if the money coming in is supposed to support 8 positions and yet there is only 1 and my kid barely gets 3 hours a year. |
Clearly what they’re doing now isn’t working when half the students need an IEP or 504 to keep up. If half the students would benefit from OG or SRA DI to learn reading then why are teachers creating their own curriculum using teachers pay teachers? If every student would benefit from learning to type then why aren’t they teaching it using a structured program that tracks individual student progress? If all students need to write better then why isn’t there a structured program in place that teaches handwriting, grammar, spelling, and writing structure from day 1? If you know that using a computer prevents a student from learning handwriting then why are computers being utilized before a student can write? If one student in a classroom is so disruptive that 5 students now need evals and 504s just to make it through the day then why is that student still in that setting? There’s a lot of money going to people that don’t do anything, and not enough money going to purchasing structured programs and training teachers on how to utilize them. Especially in the early grades evidence-based programs should be standard. Textbooks should be standard. Student workbooks should be standard. Parents should be able to look ahead to next weeks lessons and help their child prepare as necessary, or look back on issues from the previous week and help them catch up. Teachers shouldn’t be expected to reinvent the wheel- lessons should be pre-planned, expectations should be clear, children that can’t keep up should be evaluated. Children that need similar interventions should be placed together. This isn’t a funding issue it’s an admin and curriculum issue. I’ve seen some incredible SN programs that were highly structured and well-organized and they didn’t have half the problems I read about on here. |
Thank you for the thread. I’ve been told I’m an overly involved parent of my SN kid. Its good to know that I’m not alone.
As a parent, I don’t ever blame teachers or schools. What I don’t trust is that the system works well for everyone —- when it doesn’t. One size isn’t fitting anyone. US schools are broken. They may have worked in the 1950s, but they don’t fit the modern world. Our kids are taught rules and compliance, race to the middle - on-grade level in K-12. Then go to college or out in the world and struggle to be strategic, thoughtful, or creative thinkers. As a parent, I struggle with the implementation of LRE. There is a huge range in needs and less and less specialized programs to meet it. And less teachers to help. And mainstream teachers have more and more duties, larger classes, and pay isnt keeping up with the increase in responsibility. They aren’t trained in special education. And how could they possibly be trained in every type of disability…Everyone suffers - the students, teachers, parents, admin etc. it’s just broken. I was watching a school board meeting in April where a special educator begged for more support. Students with a different profile, more physical and externalizing behaviors were placed in a school. No additional staffing nor training were added. The teacher said that workman’s comps claims from staff had increased significantly. They were getting physically hurt trying to manage behaviors without adequate support. In this long winded vent, frustration between school and parent is misplaced. It should be focused on creating different kinds of programs and restricting today’s public school systems so they work better. (Yes, there isn’t money for any of that….) |
As a parent who used to work in the school, I agree. I also agree with the person who mentioned lack of trust from parents. I think from some teachers and staff there can be an automatic assumption a parent is crazy and entitled before giving the parent a chance. For now, as a parent I handle it by always assuming the best until proven otherwise and having reasonable expectations.My trust has been broken countless times, but I have seen lousy members of the team improve and we have had some incredible teachers. I always thank the good ones, let the principal know, nominate for awards, give gifts. My child is entitled to the moon and stars under the law, but I know it is unrealistic. We use outside interventions a lot (OT, ST, tutoring) and keep expectations low for what goes on in school since the caseloads are out of control and teachers are spread thin. I rarely call extra IEP meetings unless it's dire (e.g. my kid went several months without getting a service and the person didn't care and didn't think an IEP mattered). I think teachers and staff also need to assume the best no matter what you heard about the parent. Be professional and let them prove they stink before you assume it. That said, I think some have an impossible job, especially when they have a bad administrator and too many difficult parents or students in the class. |
Section 504 doesn't provide any special instruction to students - just accommodations like - extra time on tests, key to the elevator, flash pass to bathroom, computer for essays, etc. You pulled a number ($4k) out of your #%ss to make a point about the cost - but there is no way the county is spending $4k per child on a 504. and even if they were, IME, most of that cost is due to repeated time-consuming foot-dragging on the part of staff to comply with the law. Meeting after meeting of staff refusing to do things that are legally required until they are legally forced to do so by official written complaint. Also, please provide a cite for "average percent of 504s is 12%". At Montgomery Blair in MCPS, pop. approx 3000, 7.8% of the students are in "special education", which includes a mixture of IEP and 504. Blair has 21 special programs of which 20 look academic. Of those 20, 2 are "advanced education" magnet programs (nationally recognized math/computer/science magnet and the "Communication Arts" magnet) plus it has another 18 programs are geared toward the general population. There are 2 programs - "Learning and Academic Disabilities" and a speech/language resource -that are geared toward special needs. Those LAD kids are counted in the special education population and likely have IEPs. Other kids outside LAD have 504 plans and they need those plans to access the 20 other programs so they can benefit from educational offerings just like neurotypical students. So, you are telling me that 7.8% of the students (on IEPs and 504s) who have max 2 programs that meet their needs - they are "costing too much" and their funds should be cut, while the other 92.2% of the student population is served by 20 other programs? Shame on you PP and on all of you arguing to cut special needs funds. If anything, more should be provided and more should been done to teach according to "universal design for access" principles. Here are the programs from Blair's "schools at a glance" Accounting and Finance POS Achieving Collegiate Excellence and Success (ACES) Apprenticeship Maryland POS Be Well 365 Business Management POS College/Career Research & Development (CCRD) POS Communication Arts Program (CAP) Computer Science/Code.org POS DCC Academy Programs: Entrepreneurship & Business Management DCC Academy Programs: Human Service Professions DCC Academy Programs: International Studies & Law DCC Academy Programs: Media, Music, and The Arts DCC Academy Programs: Science, Technology, Engineering & Math Early Child Development POS Early College-Dual Enrollment Fire Science and Rescue POS Justice, Law, and Society POS Learning and Academic Disabilities (LAD)/Resource Magnet—Science/Math/Computer Science Marketing POS Multidisciplinary Educational Training and Support Program (METS) Speech/Language Resource |
By your own account, you don't know or understand laws related to special education and opine that, even if allowed under the law, is a "gross misues of resources". Yet, you demand that parents trust and respect your knowledge and expertise. You are outraged by parents who advocate for their kids, claiming they don't understand what they are limited to, under the law. Even if you didn't acknoweldge that, this post, on its own, shows how little knowledge you have. You are correct that the law says nothing about "potential" but that's not because it is a "nebulous" term. "Meaningful progress" is also a nebulous term but that's what's in the court opinion. What the law requires is that students with disabilities have access to the same educational opportunities their peers without disabilites have - that their disabilities cannot be used to discriminate against them or to deny them access to curricula available to their peers. That means that it is appropriate for a student with a disability to have an IEP goal that, if met, would place their child above grade level when their peers without disabilitites are provided the opportunity and if, but for their disability, the student would be capable of accessing that curricula. People like you are the reason we have to have IDEA and why parents lose trust. |
This is a 2004 report looking at the MCPS special ed budget. Has there been an update?
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/olo/resources/files/specialed.pdf |
You have expressed some unpopular opinions. My own unpopular opinion is that any student on grade level (and that means making a c or better) does not need special ed services. We can not continue on our current course. |
I hope the two PPs is really just one sock puppet because I hate to think there are two such willfully ignorant special ed teachers posting. They are, at least, excellent examples of the Dunning–Kruger effect which would explain why their interactions with parents are prone to conflict. "Meaningful progress" does not mean "substantial, significant jump". It's more than "de minimus" which means to be so little it may as well be nothing. Meaningful is something between "substantial, significant jump" and "de minimis". Just because a student is meeting or exceeding grade level expectations doesn't mean they would no longer be eligible for Special Ed Services. The law doesn't require "proof" that a student has learning disabilities. The student may be perceived to have a disability. https://www.britannica.com/science/Dunning-Kruger-effect |
And this is why there will be no 'healing'. Don't think parents are ignorant of your opinion. Believe you me, it comes through in our meetings. |
That is a very limited view. For example, children with dyslexia don’t outgrow their disability. If no intervention is given, they will more likely continue to get behind. Maybe they can get a C today, but probably not in the future. Research across the board has shown that early intervention is key. This doesn’t even take into account the mental toll it would take on the student. Most kids want to succeed, kids with disabilities know they are different and have to work harder to be like their peers. I will always be a proponent of early intervention and extra support especially in elementary school. No one knows what these kids are capable with a little more help. |
Maybe it comes through because the school does not have the resources to both meet every IEP and provide anything approaching an education to kids without IEPs |
If you are in DCPS that funding doesn’t actually go to the schools. It goes to central office who then doles it out to different schools based on their own funding calculations. So title 1 schools get more funding and resources than non title one. But the schools are still expected to meet all the needs with less money. |
Exactly. So many disabilities don't relate to learning and regurgitating facts which is what most tests are on and because tests are short term assessments with a due date they tend to be the kind of thing a parent can help with on their own to get through that day. If you aren't grading thinking skills, communication skills, organization, skipping words, coordination problems, physical disability problems, then how would a child ever get help in the area they need help in? |
DP. Of course it's a limited view. But there is no staff to do what you posted. Nobody wants to do the job in the current climate that IDEA has created. It's just accelerating now. So we can say coulda/woulda/shoulda until we're blue in the face about what the ideal would look like and we will be absolutely right that it's a travesty and that will not change anything about the reality on the ground. At this point it's all triage, it's just a matter of which districts are hiding it better than others. What is your realistic solution to quintuple funding and make special education a job that people actually want to both go into and stay in? Because if you have no staff to provide the interventions, the paper it's all written on is worthless. We absolutely must figure out this one issue or this snowball effect is going to continue. Everything flows from that. |