Seattle schools end gifted and talented program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No grade inflation at Prep though, makes the college application process tough, especially since it doesn't have the name recognition of Lakeside or even Bush. But seems to produce strong well-rounded students.

I agree, Seattle metro has same problem as DC metro. Too many overachievers chasing for the same few slots allocated for the region. Poor ROI if you have to stretch to afford the private schools.

Well, not any more given the hollowing out of Seattle’s public school education.

Aside from the couple of IQ test schools, are the vast majority of other Seattle area private schools any more accelerated than gen ed at SPS? I don't think so. Bush curriculum for instance tracks exactly at grade level as gen ed SPS. Even Seattle Country Day, despite using an IQ test, doesn't really go above grade level as an option until middle school.

The test-in private schools are really interesting, because they have great resources and curriculum, but from an acceleration perspective they offer less than my child's private school, which is the kind of school people choose as a backup plan.

How come?

Some people really, really care about having the gifted label on their school/child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The test-in private schools are really interesting, because they have great resources and curriculum, but from an acceleration perspective they offer less than my child's private school, which is the kind of school people choose as a backup plan.

How come?

There's a trend in gifted learning to avoid pure acceleration and instead go "deeper." It's debatable what that actually means, as often going "deeper" in mathematics requires going a grade level above and not just the pure tedium of doing the same basic concept ten different ways using manipulatives etc. Some of this trend is actually more motivated by equity than meeting gifted kids where they are.

What's really interesting is when you look at SCDS and Evergreen's college matriculation list, it's pretty mediocre.

Here's SCDS:
https://www.seattlecountryday.org/life-after-scds/hs-and-college-placement

This is a list that is substantially weaker than Lincoln HS (a HCC school) in SPS, as well as compared to schools like Newport HS in Bellevue. Given the financial resources these kids have (parents shelling $40k a year since kindergarten and IQ threshold for admission), then it's even more mediocre and really questions the pedagogy of these gifted private schools.

I think the financial resources of these families is how they acquire the "gifted" label to gain entry into Evergreen or SCDS in the first place. Remember, too, that if you're a family with a lot of resources, you don't need to be at an elite college to be successful. When you have family wealth you can take your foot off the gas in HS and choose whatever college seems like a good fit or a fun place.

The families I know who recently got entry into Evergreen or SCDS did so in preK (arguably not representative of long-term actual giftedness) or in 2nd/3rd grade after a lot of supplementing- literally 2x/week of 1:1 afterschool tutoring and 2 hours of RSM on Saturdays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The test-in private schools are really interesting, because they have great resources and curriculum, but from an acceleration perspective they offer less than my child's private school, which is the kind of school people choose as a backup plan.

How come?

There's a trend in gifted learning to avoid pure acceleration and instead go "deeper." It's debatable what that actually means, as often going "deeper" in mathematics requires going a grade level above and not just the pure tedium of doing the same basic concept ten different ways using manipulatives etc. Some of this trend is actually more motivated by equity than meeting gifted kids where they are.

What's really interesting is when you look at SCDS and Evergreen's college matriculation list, it's pretty mediocre.

Here's SCDS:
https://www.seattlecountryday.org/life-after-scds/hs-and-college-placement

This is a list that is substantially weaker than Lincoln HS (a HCC school) in SPS, as well as compared to schools like Newport HS in Bellevue. Given the financial resources these kids have (parents shelling $40k a year since kindergarten and IQ threshold for admission), then it's even more mediocre and really questions the pedagogy of these gifted private schools.

As I understand it, SPS's "new" program is exactly like this. No acceleration is allowed, just grade level enrichment. Just how much can you enrich third grade math to kids who are already far ahead while truly helping their classmates who are far behind?!

I do get your point but I'm not sure how you can really compare college admission data from a k-8 to high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The families I know who recently got entry into Evergreen or SCDS did so in preK (arguably not representative of long-term actual giftedness) or in 2nd/3rd grade after a lot of supplementing- literally 2x/week of 1:1 afterschool tutoring and 2 hours of RSM on Saturdays.

I know similar, vast majority of kids at Evergreen supplement with RSM type stuff. The foreign language there is weak too, so parents supplement with private language tutors. At some point you're just buying parental bragging rights in your circles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Here’s how they do it at View Ridge Elementary, a neighborhood school in northeast Seattle that serves all levels of students in the same classrooms.

On a recent day in a first grade classroom, seven advanced learners sat on the floor reading silently on their iPads. "

Complete dereliction of duty.

This was my DC in Ker and 1st grade at a public school in an expensive neighborhood in the Bay Area, except DC was reading a physical book, all by themselves. The teacher said to just go and do some "research". This is a 5/6 year old.

We moved to the DC area in part for the gifted programs. I have a lot of criticism of the school districts here, but the one thing I appreciate is the real G&T programs here, not just pullouts starting from 4th grade that we had in our previous Bay Area school.

I just could not stomach paying that much in taxes for a pullout G&T program every few weeks. Suffice it to say that DC did get into the G&T program here where they weren't the only advanced learners who were told to just "do a research" project on their own.

This race to the bottom serves no one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The test-in private schools are really interesting, because they have great resources and curriculum, but from an acceleration perspective they offer less than my child's private school, which is the kind of school people choose as a backup plan.

How come?

There's a trend in gifted learning to avoid pure acceleration and instead go "deeper." It's debatable what that actually means, as often going "deeper" in mathematics requires going a grade level above and not just the pure tedium of doing the same basic concept ten different ways using manipulatives etc. Some of this trend is actually more motivated by equity than meeting gifted kids where they are.

What's really interesting is when you look at SCDS and Evergreen's college matriculation list, it's pretty mediocre.

Here's SCDS:
https://www.seattlecountryday.org/life-after-scds/hs-and-college-placement

This is a list that is substantially weaker than Lincoln HS (a HCC school) in SPS, as well as compared to schools like Newport HS in Bellevue. Given the financial resources these kids have (parents shelling $40k a year since kindergarten and IQ threshold for admission), then it's even more mediocre and really questions the pedagogy of these gifted private schools.

So how can you know if a private school has no gifted program whatsoever (worst case) vs acceleration (best case, like your school) vs "enrichment" (2nd best case)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Here’s how they do it at View Ridge Elementary, a neighborhood school in northeast Seattle that serves all levels of students in the same classrooms.

On a recent day in a first grade classroom, seven advanced learners sat on the floor reading silently on their iPads. "

Complete dereliction of duty.

This was my DC in Ker and 1st grade at a public school in an expensive neighborhood in the Bay Area, except DC was reading a physical book, all by themselves. The teacher said to just go and do some "research". This is a 5/6 year old.

We moved to the DC area in part for the gifted programs. I have a lot of criticism of the school districts here, but the one thing I appreciate is the real G&T programs here, not just pullouts starting from 4th grade that we had in our previous Bay Area school.

I just could not stomach paying that much in taxes for a pullout G&T program every few weeks. Suffice it to say that DC did get into the G&T program here where they weren't the only advanced learners who were told to just "do a research" project on their own.

This race to the bottom serves no one.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t work and the achievement gap doesn’t close.

The result is this: rich parents send their kids to private school, some middle income families stretch themselves to go to private and the rest stay in public and continue to succeed and it’s even easier bc the bar is now a little lower. Low income, ESL, and all other students who were very behind continue to be get left behind and the achievement gap doesn’t get any closer to closing …

If schools were serious about closing achievement gaps they would poor resources and money into teaching kids phonics and then screening for dyslexia and providing the appropriate remediation. A kid being able to read at grade level every year consistently would do more to close the achievement gap than any equity initiative ever will ….

The only way to shrink the achievement gap from the bottom is to add 2 more hours to the school day, to give poor / underparented kids the similar educational experience the rich / overparented kids have.

But that costs money, so it won't happen, and it requires parent consent, which is hit and miss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Here’s how they do it at View Ridge Elementary, a neighborhood school in northeast Seattle that serves all levels of students in the same classrooms.

On a recent day in a first grade classroom, seven advanced learners sat on the floor reading silently on their iPads. "

Complete dereliction of duty.

This was my DC in Ker and 1st grade at a public school in an expensive neighborhood in the Bay Area, except DC was reading a physical book, all by themselves. The teacher said to just go and do some "research". This is a 5/6 year old.

We moved to the DC area in part for the gifted programs. I have a lot of criticism of the school districts here, but the one thing I appreciate is the real G&T programs here, not just pullouts starting from 4th grade that we had in our previous Bay Area school.

I just could not stomach paying that much in taxes for a pullout G&T program every few weeks. Suffice it to say that DC did get into the G&T program here where they weren't the only advanced learners who were told to just "do a research" project on their own.

This race to the bottom serves no one.

Bay Area? I am from Marin (Tiburon).

The progressives’ race-to-the-bottom is one reason I would never raise my child there.

Here is one example:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/california-math-framework-algebra/675509/


(no child was allowed to learn algebra prior to high school / 7th grade, due to equity )

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is another article on the same move by Seattle’s school system:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13266205/Seattle-closes-gifted-talented-schools-racial-inequities.html

This appears to be an equity-driven attempt to close the achievement gap from the top-down.

That was always going to be how the achievement gap was closed. It is impossible to replicate educated parents who care and foster learning. No amount of interventions will change that. That means that if closing the gap is the goal (it's always closing the gap, never just raising the bottom), the the only way is suppressing those who are excelling

The only goal to be achieved by “closing the facial achievement gap from the top down,” will be making the U.S. population as a whole less intelligent and less competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I found Montessoris the best option for acceleration at elementary level. Agree that the gifted private school are kind of scammy in that they take the smartest and most affluent kids in Seattle area to begin with and then run some ski buses and craft projects. This is what my neighbors tell me too, but they still send them there because the biggest problem with SPS is the middle schools and sending your kids to K-8 privates avoid the middle school hustle.

Not in Seattle, but this was true for us too. My kid was able to work pretty far ahead while being in the same room as her age cohort, which helped avoid boredom. We're heading into middle school next year at a traditional school and I'm nervous about the shift.