Stanley Martin build, but skip the design center?

[Anonymous]

Anyone do a new build in a development with Stanley Martin? I'm seeing in some of the previous threads complaints over the nickle and dimed process to get everything finished. I was shocked to realize that everything "except the walls and floors" basically, was an upsell. But I'm also wondering if it is possible to hire our own subcontractors to complete the rest of it all...and if that would be more cost effective. Any advice on buying into a Stanley Martin development appreciated.

[Anonymous]

I don't have experience with SM, but family members just built a home and basically they did almost everything builder grade where it was cost effective (trim, paint, backsplash, flooring, lighting, faucets) and then upgraded after closing for less $. They did go through the builder for cabinets and counters.

[Anonymous]

All large builders are this way. I agree with PP - go with builder grade and then do the upgrades after the fact. Just as an example, my clients are purchasing new build and the builder wanted to charge $150/recessed light. If you just have them wire for a fan - an electrician can come in after the fact and install for around $60/recessed light (at most). Another example - builder grade granite...they wanted to charge $7k for upgraded granite - could have purchased from Marble Systems for about $2500/slab and had it fabricated for $350...totally not worth the $7k from the showroom.

If you're not already too far along, hopefully, you have representation BTW. Builder sales people are all "say anything" types and their contracts clearly state that nothing is legit unless it is in writing. You should have representation, even if they tell you you will save $X by not using an agent - half the time that is BS and they just don't want someone who actually understands the legality of the situation involved. I've saved my clients from being screwed by builders twice in 2015.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All large builders are this way. I agree with PP - go with builder grade and then do the upgrades after the fact. Just as an example, my clients are purchasing new build and the builder wanted to charge $150/recessed light. If you just have them wire for a fan - an electrician can come in after the fact and install for around $60/recessed light (at most). Another example - builder grade granite...they wanted to charge $7k for upgraded granite - could have purchased from Marble Systems for about $2500/slab and had it fabricated for $350...totally not worth the $7k from the showroom.

If you're not already too far along, hopefully, you have representation BTW. Builder sales people are all "say anything" types and their contracts clearly state that nothing is legit unless it is in writing. You should have representation, even if they tell you you will save $X by not using an agent - half the time that is BS and they just don't want someone who actually understands the legality of the situation involved. I've saved my clients from being screwed by builders twice in 2015.

Thank you for your thoughts. We have an agent we've been working with, but had been thinking of not using her if we went this route. Now we will reconsider that.

[Anonymous]

Unless your agent kicks back to you like half of their commission, you don't really need one when buying from a reputable builder in this a development in this area. Save $$ and spend on upgrades and/or post closing improvements.

And no, unless you build a completely custom individual home, the builder won't hand over to you an incomplete house. Too much hassle/risk for them and doesn't really make sense $$-wise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless your agent kicks back to you like half of their commission, you don't really need one when buying from a reputable builder in this a development in this area. Save $$ and spend on upgrades and/or post closing improvements.

And no, unless you build a completely custom individual home, the builder won't hand over to you an incomplete house. Too much hassle/risk for them and doesn't really make sense $$-wise.

The builder is not going to give you a discount for not using a realtor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone do a new build in a development with Stanley Martin? I'm seeing in some of the previous threads complaints over the nickle and dimed process to get everything finished. I was shocked to realize that everything "except the walls and floors" basically, was an upsell. But I'm also wondering if it is possible to hire our own subcontractors to complete the rest of it all...and if that would be more cost effective. Any advice on buying into a Stanley Martin development appreciated.

Stanley Martin developments will be the same as buying into any other development. Like pp said, you won't be able to get them to sell you a half-finished house that you then bring in your subs to finish. There's too much liability to them if something goes wrong (due to the potential difficulty of proving they didn't do anything wrong if your sub later screws something up and tries to blame SM), it's bad marketing for them if your subs do a bad job but people think that was SM work, and they won't be able to give you a house with a CO without the bulk of the finishing done, which presents legal problems.

We recently built with the custom homes side of Stanley Martin (so a different division, but I think the general principle still applies). My advice is to upgrade on the fixed things that you either can't really change would be a major expense and effort to change later (e.g., kitchen cabinets, hardwood floors, putting noise-dampening insulation in interior walls and ceilings), and then go builder grade on the rest. For instance, we put in builder grade light fixtures all through the house, and now as we're decorating each room, either re-selling the old fixtures on craigslist or just tossing them and putting in something we love at a fraction of the cost. Same thing with interior doors -- we had them put in basic hollow-core doors, and then later bought solid doors that we painted and hung ourselves for a fraction of the cost. It helps that we're pretty handy and can do a lot of the work ourselves. There were a few things we paid their prices on even though we could have saved money by having someone else do it later because we just didn't want to deal with it (e.g., upgraded lighting and house wiring for internet/cable/phone/etc.).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone do a new build in a development with Stanley Martin? I'm seeing in some of the previous threads complaints over the nickle and dimed process to get everything finished. I was shocked to realize that everything "except the walls and floors" basically, was an upsell. But I'm also wondering if it is possible to hire our own subcontractors to complete the rest of it all...and if that would be more cost effective. Any advice on buying into a Stanley Martin development appreciated.

Stanley Martin developments will be the same as buying into any other development. Like pp said, you won't be able to get them to sell you a half-finished house that you then bring in your subs to finish. There's too much liability to them if something goes wrong (due to the potential difficulty of proving they didn't do anything wrong if your sub later screws something up and tries to blame SM), it's bad marketing for them if your subs do a bad job but people think that was SM work, and they won't be able to give you a house with a CO without the bulk of the finishing done, which presents legal problems.

We recently built with the custom homes side of Stanley Martin (so a different division, but I think the general principle still applies). My advice is to upgrade on the fixed things that you either can't really change would be a major expense and effort to change later (e.g., kitchen cabinets, hardwood floors, putting noise-dampening insulation in interior walls and ceilings), and then go builder grade on the rest. For instance, we put in builder grade light fixtures all through the house, and now as we're decorating each room, either re-selling the old fixtures on craigslist or just tossing them and putting in something we love at a fraction of the cost. Same thing with interior doors -- we had them put in basic hollow-core doors, and then later bought solid doors that we painted and hung ourselves for a fraction of the cost. It helps that we're pretty handy and can do a lot of the work ourselves. There were a few things we paid their prices on even though we could have saved money by having someone else do it later because we just didn't want to deal with it (e.g., upgraded lighting and house wiring for internet/cable/phone/etc.).

This is extremely useful. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Yep, although I'm not sure if all of the 'custom' upgrades like thicker exterior walls or higher basement ceiling are available on the development side.

Re discounts if not bringing a realtor - if you can't get those, you suck at negotiating.

[Anonymous]

One other point is that the home would not pass code and would not receive an occupancy permit if everything was not finished. It would not be feasible to have the builder only do part of the work as they would not be able to turn the home back over to you as they could not pass inspection.

[Anonymous]

Technically it's feasible, but again, too much hassle for all parties involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless your agent kicks back to you like half of their commission, you don't really need one when buying from a reputable builder in this a development in this area. Save $$ and spend on upgrades and/or post closing improvements.

And no, unless you build a completely custom individual home, the builder won't hand over to you an incomplete house. Too much hassle/risk for them and doesn't really make sense $$-wise.

The builder is not going to give you a discount for not using a realtor.

They might be willing to give you upgrades for free if you don't have an agent. My neighbor was able to negotiate and got upgrades from the builder ( not SM). You can get professional advice for a fraction of the cost of a realtor.

[Anonymous]

NDI can build you a shell that you finish yourself.

[Anonymous]

PP 14:04 here...the Realtor involvement is not necessarily about someone to negotiate for you. In both examples where builders tried to screw with my clients in 2015, there were errors in the paperwork that would have cost my clients money. In the one situation in particular, my clients had added an addendum to their contract to cover specific issues with the model home they were purchasing (which I encouraged and wrote for them) that they wanted resolved that were not covered by the model home addendum included by the builder. The authorized signing party for the builder did not like this addendum, pulled it from the contract and then sent the rest of the documentation back saying that the contract was "ratified" and sent to settlement company. I argued that the contract was not ratified until all parties agreed to all terms and that they can't just remove addenda and call a contract ratified. I think most buyers would have either a) not even known to include the addendum in the first place and/or b) not noticed that the addendum wasn't included and went with the builder paperwork.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone do a new build in a development with Stanley Martin? I'm seeing in some of the previous threads complaints over the nickle and dimed process to get everything finished. I was shocked to realize that everything "except the walls and floors" basically, was an upsell. But I'm also wondering if it is possible to hire our own subcontractors to complete the rest of it all...and if that would be more cost effective. Any advice on buying into a Stanley Martin development appreciated.

which neighboorhood are you buying?
my family just bought a house from them in woodbridge va.