APE and tech (APS)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:APE really dislikes Apple products for some reason. The Macbooks are better built, last longer and are easier to maintain. The Wall Street Journal had an article this past year on the cheap Chromebooks that become useless bricks because of the inability to upgrade the software and proprietary OS. Also those cheap plastic computers break more often.

I will not vote for any candidate that supports this ludicrous APE position that is not based on any sound research. Also, Macbooks, ipads, and learning cursive penmanship, reading physical books, drawing/painting, or whatever are not mutually exclusive.

Except APS makes them such by relying on the technology for everything not actually doing much, if any, of that other stuff (ie penmanship and reading physical books).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of all the things I care about, elementary school iPad usage is the least of my concerns. If APE talked to their teachers and principals, they would find that even in upper elem, they aren’t even used that much. It’s mostly used for differentiation, so that teachers can put the class on Lexia or Dreambox so that they can do small group work. Anything more will cost money for more teachers to supervise, and we all know what’s going on with the budget. And yes, many standardized tests are administered electronically. You will have to go to Richmond for that.

So tired of APE taking all the oxygen out of the room, so we can’t talk about more salient issues affecting APS. ArlNow is now their mouthpiece.

I'm not sure why you don't think this is a salient issue. We're in the middle of talking about budget cuts and surely ending 1:1 devices in K-2 would save money. I think many parents would support that step if it was endorsed by teachers. There's no reason to buy a device for every kid if they're just sitting unused the vast majority of the time.

First problem is that they are not sitting around unused for the vast majority of the time, or are sitting around less and less each year.
Secondly, them being overused would be equally good reason to not buy them - because they shouldn't be so dependent on them for teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APE really dislikes Apple products for some reason. The Macbooks are better built, last longer and are easier to maintain. The Wall Street Journal had an article this past year on the cheap Chromebooks that become useless bricks because of the inability to upgrade the software and proprietary OS. Also those cheap plastic computers break more often.

I will not vote for any candidate that supports this ludicrous APE position that is not based on any sound research. Also, Macbooks, ipads, and learning cursive penmanship, reading physical books, drawing/painting, or whatever are not mutually exclusive.

Except APS makes them such by relying on the technology for everything not actually doing much, if any, of that other stuff (ie penmanship and reading physical books).

What APS are you all in? My kids both read a lot of physical books, work on penmanship, etc. Also, for what it's worth, the math app Reflex on the ipads genuinely helps for memorizing math facts, which used to be a pretty painful process when it was just flashcards and multiplication tables.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:iPads are used a lot. My child had to go in early to get caught up on lexia. They are required to meet a certain level before the end of the year in order to move onto the next level/grade. So maybe dependent on teacher. But I would have rather my child going in early to work on an essay or for a book club or project… I’d love to see all tech go. Many private schools do not use them regularly and kids are ok!

My first grader is also being pushed to get to a certain level in Lexia. She hasn’t had to go in early but her teacher wants us to do extra at home and she misses out on writing and other assignments so she can sit at a table to work on Lexia. Does anyone know what the deal is with this? I can’t believe they would hold a kid back for not reaching a certain level. Does the teacher get dinged if everyone doesn’t reach the benchmark?

Lexia has its role; but APS is relying on it far beyond its basic useful role (identifying the student's mastery levels and areas needing more instruction). They are requiring "x" amount of time on it for the sake of requiring "x" amount of time on it, and also relying on it to provide instruction and skills practice. It's ludicrous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the anti-APE paranoiacs now convinced that APE has infiltrated the AEA as well? Prakash basically endorsed their position.

Lots of teachers are on board too. The 1:1 policy was implemented during COVID, when it was needed. It doesn't sound like elementary teachers think they need 1:1 for K-2, especially where the same funding could get them other supports.

I've also heard from my daughter's 5th grade teacher and MS teachers that teachers would prefer for a device with a keyboard (like a Chromebook) over an iPad so kids can more easily type content. They describe it as needing devices for content producers instead of content consumers. I don't think teachers are trying to get into the Mac/PC debate as much as suggesting a device at a similar price point as an iPad that has a full keyboard.

I don't think these are APE positions, even if APE agrees.

Then the middle schools and upper elementary grades should probably have macbooks or at least ipads with the keyboard attachments. Switching to another provider for just a few grades doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

It would be really tone deaf to suggest buying MacBooks for more kids in a very tough budget year. Chromebooks seem more attainable given their price point, but what device is really a question for APS IT.

As a parent, I support the concept of devices with a keyboard for 5th grade and MS based on teacher sentiment but don't feel strongly at all about exactly what device as long as it works.

Wholeheartedly agree. Though I'm not convinced it's necessary in 5th grade. They can write essays on paper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If APS can afford to give middle-schoolers MacBooks, I'm all for it. Though not Chromebooks. Every single one I've owned has crapped out within a year. But they can't afford it. At least not this year and probably next.

K-2s should have iPads though. Not only because different assessments are online, but Lexia and Dreambox are excellent programs and can serve those learners that need content turned into games. If kids are learning from them, I see no need to yank them away because, reasons. Everything in moderation. There's nothing wrong with a little bit of iPad time in school. Even for the little ones.

How on Earth did K-2ers ever learn before computer games? Oh, right....teachers led them in non-computer learning games. Hmm...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If APS can afford to give middle-schoolers MacBooks, I'm all for it. Though not Chromebooks. Every single one I've owned has crapped out within a year. But they can't afford it. At least not this year and probably next.

K-2s should have iPads though. Not only because different assessments are online, but Lexia and Dreambox are excellent programs and can serve those learners that need content turned into games. If kids are learning from them, I see no need to yank them away because, reasons. Everything in moderation. There's nothing wrong with a little bit of iPad time in school. Even for the little ones.

No one is suggesting that iPads shouldn't be available for K-2, only that they don't need to be 1:1 based on the amount of use. How many hours of Deambox and Lexia are you proposing?

I'm not opposed to having a policy stating how much device maximum time per grade (or clusters of grades) should be deemed sufficient. Ed Tech should get on that instead of banning them entirely in K-2.

I think it would be awfully complicated to coordinate testing when not every child has access to an iPad at the same time. At our school, my understanding is that iPad time is used so that teachers can do small group instruction while the rest of the class has Lexia time. Signing in and signing out kids may take too much time as well, particularly in the younger grades where not everyone remembers their lunch ID and passwords. Clever has its limits too.

Who is saying to ban them? A shared set would be fine for most use in K-2. And don't send them home for most of elementary. The biggest problems happen on bus rides and at home. They don't come back or get broken. Parents get notes to pay but no one enforces. APS should come clean about how many ipads it's replacing each year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If APS can afford to give middle-schoolers MacBooks, I'm all for it. Though not Chromebooks. Every single one I've owned has crapped out within a year. But they can't afford it. At least not this year and probably next.

K-2s should have iPads though. Not only because different assessments are online, but Lexia and Dreambox are excellent programs and can serve those learners that need content turned into games. If kids are learning from them, I see no need to yank them away because, reasons. Everything in moderation. There's nothing wrong with a little bit of iPad time in school. Even for the little ones.

They don't need 1:1 devices to conduct assessments online or to give game-learning students access to Lexia and Dreambox. Class sets are sufficient. Even class sets in numbers fewer than the number of students in the classroom since, apparently, students are only using iPads for differentiation while teachers work with other students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APE really dislikes Apple products for some reason. The Macbooks are better built, last longer and are easier to maintain. The Wall Street Journal had an article this past year on the cheap Chromebooks that become useless bricks because of the inability to upgrade the software and proprietary OS. Also those cheap plastic computers break more often.

I will not vote for any candidate that supports this ludicrous APE position that is not based on any sound research. Also, Macbooks, ipads, and learning cursive penmanship, reading physical books, drawing/painting, or whatever are not mutually exclusive.

Except APS makes them such by relying on the technology for everything not actually doing much, if any, of that other stuff (ie penmanship and reading physical books).

What APS are you all in? My kids both read a lot of physical books, work on penmanship, etc. Also, for what it's worth, the math app Reflex on the ipads genuinely helps for memorizing math facts, which used to be a pretty painful process when it was just flashcards and multiplication tables.

I have no issue with things like math facts practice on computers. Our school did not spend time teaching penmanship - it was self-taught and then its use was never enforced, and then not needed because everything ultimately gets done on the iPad by middle school.
I would say we're all in the APS you haven't gotten to yet or apparently just not in the special part of APS you're privileged to be in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APE really dislikes Apple products for some reason. The Macbooks are better built, last longer and are easier to maintain. The Wall Street Journal had an article this past year on the cheap Chromebooks that become useless bricks because of the inability to upgrade the software and proprietary OS. Also those cheap plastic computers break more often.

I will not vote for any candidate that supports this ludicrous APE position that is not based on any sound research. Also, Macbooks, ipads, and learning cursive penmanship, reading physical books, drawing/painting, or whatever are not mutually exclusive.

Except APS makes them such by relying on the technology for everything not actually doing much, if any, of that other stuff (ie penmanship and reading physical books).

What APS are you all in? My kids both read a lot of physical books, work on penmanship, etc. Also, for what it's worth, the math app Reflex on the ipads genuinely helps for memorizing math facts, which used to be a pretty painful process when it was just flashcards and multiplication tables.

I have no issue with things like math facts practice on computers. Our school did not spend time teaching penmanship - it was self-taught and then its use was never enforced, and then not needed because everything ultimately gets done on the iPad by middle school.
I would say we're all in the APS you haven't gotten to yet or apparently just not in the special part of APS you're privileged to be in.

Amen. This is exactly what my kids are experiencing right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the anti-APE paranoiacs now convinced that APE has infiltrated the AEA as well? Prakash basically endorsed their position.

Lots of teachers are on board too. The 1:1 policy was implemented during COVID, when it was needed. It doesn't sound like elementary teachers think they need 1:1 for K-2, especially where the same funding could get them other supports.

I've also heard from my daughter's 5th grade teacher and MS teachers that teachers would prefer for a device with a keyboard (like a Chromebook) over an iPad so kids can more easily type content. They describe it as needing devices for content producers instead of content consumers. I don't think teachers are trying to get into the Mac/PC debate as much as suggesting a device at a similar price point as an iPad that has a full keyboard.

I don't think these are APE positions, even if APE agrees.

Honestly, I'm against this too. Make them write on pencil and paper. At the middle school level the essays aren't so long that it makes a meaningful time difference. The only advantage to giving them keyboards is so that it's easier for the teacher to collect all the written work with software. While I'm sensitive to the needs of teachers, paper and pencil are better for this age group in terms of re-inforcing all sorts of good habits and promoting better focus and engagement with the act of writing. Worse for students but easier for teachers isn't the kind of trade-off we should be making. Support the teachers with things like smaller class sizes so they have the ability to teach these skills well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of all the things I care about, elementary school iPad usage is the least of my concerns. If APE talked to their teachers and principals, they would find that even in upper elem, they aren’t even used that much. It’s mostly used for differentiation, so that teachers can put the class on Lexia or Dreambox so that they can do small group work. Anything more will cost money for more teachers to supervise, and we all know what’s going on with the budget. And yes, many standardized tests are administered electronically. You will have to go to Richmond for that.

So tired of APE taking all the oxygen out of the room, so we can’t talk about more salient issues affecting APS. ArlNow is now their mouthpiece.

The head of AEA agrees with them! Everything on your list can be done with a class set and not 1-1. And no SOLs until grade 3.

+1 I’m fine with iPads in 3rd grade (the vast majority of kids know how to use them before then) I don’t think people realize how much other stuff is done on smartboards or monitors hooked up to laptops in APS elementary schools. All kids are looking at screens for a substantial amount of time each day.

Please. The issue is not that they are looking at a smartboard or monitor. It's the specific battle with the ipad. The discipline issues, the attention fragmentation from gamification, the cost of the devices, the amount of effort spent on making sure they're brought to school and charged up. All of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of all the things I care about, elementary school iPad usage is the least of my concerns. If APE talked to their teachers and principals, they would find that even in upper elem, they aren’t even used that much. It’s mostly used for differentiation, so that teachers can put the class on Lexia or Dreambox so that they can do small group work. Anything more will cost money for more teachers to supervise, and we all know what’s going on with the budget. And yes, many standardized tests are administered electronically. You will have to go to Richmond for that.

So tired of APE taking all the oxygen out of the room, so we can’t talk about more salient issues affecting APS. ArlNow is now their mouthpiece.

The head of AEA agrees with them! Everything on your list can be done with a class set and not 1-1. And no SOLs until grade 3.

+1 I’m fine with iPads in 3rd grade (the vast majority of kids know how to use them before then) I don’t think people realize how much other stuff is done on smartboards or monitors hooked up to laptops in APS elementary schools. All kids are looking at screens for a substantial amount of time each day.

Please. The issue is not that they are looking at a smartboard or monitor. It's the specific battle with the ipad. The discipline issues, the attention fragmentation from gamification, the cost of the devices, the amount of effort spent on making sure they're brought to school and charged up. All of it.

It’s both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the anti-APE paranoiacs now convinced that APE has infiltrated the AEA as well? Prakash basically endorsed their position.

Lots of teachers are on board too. The 1:1 policy was implemented during COVID, when it was needed. It doesn't sound like elementary teachers think they need 1:1 for K-2, especially where the same funding could get them other supports.

I've also heard from my daughter's 5th grade teacher and MS teachers that teachers would prefer for a device with a keyboard (like a Chromebook) over an iPad so kids can more easily type content. They describe it as needing devices for content producers instead of content consumers. I don't think teachers are trying to get into the Mac/PC debate as much as suggesting a device at a similar price point as an iPad that has a full keyboard.

I don't think these are APE positions, even if APE agrees.

Then the middle schools and upper elementary grades should probably have macbooks or at least ipads with the keyboard attachments. Switching to another provider for just a few grades doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

It would be really tone deaf to suggest buying MacBooks for more kids in a very tough budget year. Chromebooks seem more attainable given their price point, but what device is really a question for APS IT.

As a parent, I support the concept of devices with a keyboard for 5th grade and MS based on teacher sentiment but don't feel strongly at all about exactly what device as long as it works.

APS can easily buy the iPad keyboard attachments. I see people using iPads with keyboards all the time in planes, on trains, and in cafes. That’s cheaper and less disruptive than buying disposable Chromebooks for just a a few grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of all the things I care about, elementary school iPad usage is the least of my concerns. If APE talked to their teachers and principals, they would find that even in upper elem, they aren’t even used that much. It’s mostly used for differentiation, so that teachers can put the class on Lexia or Dreambox so that they can do small group work. Anything more will cost money for more teachers to supervise, and we all know what’s going on with the budget. And yes, many standardized tests are administered electronically. You will have to go to Richmond for that.

So tired of APE taking all the oxygen out of the room, so we can’t talk about more salient issues affecting APS. ArlNow is now their mouthpiece.

APS pays teachers less than relative to other districts, we have mainstreamed kids with challenges, and ramped up testing. There will be times when the teacher needs to focus on on a small group, often times this will consume a large portion of the day, so what would the kids do before iPads? They would watch a movie. Or worksheets. This may or may not be better, but the real problem is the classes are too large now, and there’s too much differentiation effort to allow them to actually teach the class as one