Economics of club volleyball

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how the main thing that is being missed in this thread is the value that a few of the expensive clubs give to the players who play for them. For example, a Metro and a Paramount whose 18s teams are typically composed and of entirely D1 recruits. Say you play for a paramount/metro from U15-U18, and you pay around $11,000 a season when all is said and done ($44,000 over the course of 4 years). Now, because of the platform/exposure to college recruiting that these clubs provide, as well as the training, your child receives a full athletic scholarship to a Division 1 university. This D1 university would cost the normal student $25,000 per year to attend ($100,000 total). See the value now? However, if your child is not a D1 player or is not good enough to get a scholarship, it makes little sense to spend that money on club volleyball, and you would be better off playing for a lower budget club

B/C volleyball scholarships are limited to a headcount, the likelihood of a full scholarship for all 4 years is pretty small. Rosters are big at the college level.

I would add that most parents are realistic and know that their kids are unlikely to be recruited. They encourage their kids to stay active and play for fun without really considering the remote chance of a college scholarship. If your kid is tall and / or very talented, by all means - think about the math. I will likely have to come up with the money to put mine through college.

Definitely this. I understand that club volleyball (and other travel sports) can be really expensive, but I hope that most parents don't think of their kids' activities in terms of return on investment, but instead whether they enjoy it and whether it provides life experiences that helps them develop as a person. Even if they don't intend to play volleyball in college, having played a team sport like club volleyball is a good activity to include on a college applications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how the main thing that is being missed in this thread is the value that a few of the expensive clubs give to the players who play for them. For example, a Metro and a Paramount whose 18s teams are typically composed and of entirely D1 recruits. Say you play for a paramount/metro from U15-U18, and you pay around $11,000 a season when all is said and done ($44,000 over the course of 4 years). Now, because of the platform/exposure to college recruiting that these clubs provide, as well as the training, your child receives a full athletic scholarship to a Division 1 university. This D1 university would cost the normal student $25,000 per year to attend ($100,000 total). See the value now? However, if your child is not a D1 player or is not good enough to get a scholarship, it makes little sense to spend that money on club volleyball, and you would be better off playing for a lower budget club

B/C volleyball scholarships are limited to a headcount, the likelihood of a full scholarship for all 4 years is pretty small. Rosters are big at the college level.

This is a good short discussion of the numbers of D1 volleyball players and scholarships:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C4WeC6JMYOm/

Yes, volleyball scholarships are extremely difficult to get, but many of the players you see committed from Metro and Paramount are getting athletic scholarships.

One caveat is that it is even more difficult for liberos/defensive specialists to get athletic scholarships. It's simple supply and demand. Since height is not required to be a high level defensive player there are many, many more for D1 programs to choose from and they generally do not need to use any of their scholarships to get a quality libero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how the main thing that is being missed in this thread is the value that a few of the expensive clubs give to the players who play for them. For example, a Metro and a Paramount whose 18s teams are typically composed and of entirely D1 recruits. Say you play for a paramount/metro from U15-U18, and you pay around $11,000 a season when all is said and done ($44,000 over the course of 4 years). Now, because of the platform/exposure to college recruiting that these clubs provide, as well as the training, your child receives a full athletic scholarship to a Division 1 university. This D1 university would cost the normal student $25,000 per year to attend ($100,000 total). See the value now? However, if your child is not a D1 player or is not good enough to get a scholarship, it makes little sense to spend that money on club volleyball, and you would be better off playing for a lower budget club

B/C volleyball scholarships are limited to a headcount, the likelihood of a full scholarship for all 4 years is pretty small. Rosters are big at the college level.

I would add that most parents are realistic and know that their kids are unlikely to be recruited. They encourage their kids to stay active and play for fun without really considering the remote chance of a college scholarship. If your kid is tall and / or very talented, by all means - think about the math. I will likely have to come up with the money to put mine through college.

Definitely this. I understand that club volleyball (and other travel sports) can be really expensive, but I hope that most parents don't think of their kids' activities in terms of return on investment, but instead whether they enjoy it and whether it provides life experiences that helps them develop as a person. Even if they don't intend to play volleyball in college, having played a team sport like club volleyball is a good activity to include on a college applications.

This is an additional reason for the volleyball clubs to stop pretending that they are all competitive and charge a ton of money for their "travel" teams. Most parents would be happy with a regional option that costs less and minimizes overnight lodging for out-of-state tournaments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know how much a decent coach makes when coaching a club team? I do understand that some coaches volunteer, but those are the exception rather than the norm. I assume that they are paid hourly, but I don't have any idea how much they make. They also have some perks, like travel and lodging during tournaments.

I’ll answer this, since no one else has. I’m a regional level head coach, and I get paid $3600 for a six-month season.

Coaches, are you happy with how much you make as you coach your team(s)? Do you feel like the club owners value your experience? Is your pay reasonable when you take into account the club profits? Do you agree with the parents who claim that clubs take advantage of the demand and overcharge them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love how the main thing that is being missed in this thread is the value that a few of the expensive clubs give to the players who play for them. For example, a Metro and a Paramount whose 18s teams are typically composed and of entirely D1 recruits. Say you play for a paramount/metro from U15-U18, and you pay around $11,000 a season when all is said and done ($44,000 over the course of 4 years). Now, because of the platform/exposure to college recruiting that these clubs provide, as well as the training, your child receives a full athletic scholarship to a Division 1 university. This D1 university would cost the normal student $25,000 per year to attend ($100,000 total). See the value now? However, if your child is not a D1 player or is not good enough to get a scholarship, it makes little sense to spend that money on club volleyball, and you would be better off playing for a lower budget club

Paramount 18s entirely D1? I don’t think so at all. Metro’s really the only one that is all D1 (with rare exceptions). Paramount is usually a 70/30 split between D1 and D3 (with some great D3 schools). Scholarships are underwhelming overall, except for the best in either team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how the main thing that is being missed in this thread is the value that a few of the expensive clubs give to the players who play for them. For example, a Metro and a Paramount whose 18s teams are typically composed and of entirely D1 recruits. Say you play for a paramount/metro from U15-U18, and you pay around $11,000 a season when all is said and done ($44,000 over the course of 4 years). Now, because of the platform/exposure to college recruiting that these clubs provide, as well as the training, your child receives a full athletic scholarship to a Division 1 university. This D1 university would cost the normal student $25,000 per year to attend ($100,000 total). See the value now? However, if your child is not a D1 player or is not good enough to get a scholarship, it makes little sense to spend that money on club volleyball, and you would be better off playing for a lower budget club

Paramount 18s entirely D1? I don’t think so at all. Metro’s really the only one that is all D1 (with rare exceptions). Paramount is usually a 70/30 split between D1 and D3 (with some great D3 schools). Scholarships are underwhelming overall, except for the best in either team.

Even for a top club like Metro - only approximately half of the players are actually getting a full ride scholarship. Many of the other players are either walk-ons or getting a 1-year scholarship. That is most likely also true for Paramount as well. So for other less competitive clubs, full ride scholarship is very rare. Many club "sell" the new parents that all of their players play DI schools. What they don't mention is that most are not on a full-scholarship and are still paying to attend college. So parents need to be realistic about their DD's motivation/work ethic and natural athletic talents when deciding on the club. It is unlikely that a player on the bench will get a full-ride scholarship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how the main thing that is being missed in this thread is the value that a few of the expensive clubs give to the players who play for them. For example, a Metro and a Paramount whose 18s teams are typically composed and of entirely D1 recruits. Say you play for a paramount/metro from U15-U18, and you pay around $11,000 a season when all is said and done ($44,000 over the course of 4 years). Now, because of the platform/exposure to college recruiting that these clubs provide, as well as the training, your child receives a full athletic scholarship to a Division 1 university. This D1 university would cost the normal student $25,000 per year to attend ($100,000 total). See the value now? However, if your child is not a D1 player or is not good enough to get a scholarship, it makes little sense to spend that money on club volleyball, and you would be better off playing for a lower budget club

Paramount 18s entirely D1? I don’t think so at all. Metro’s really the only one that is all D1 (with rare exceptions). Paramount is usually a 70/30 split between D1 and D3 (with some great D3 schools). Scholarships are underwhelming overall, except for the best in either team.

Even for a top club like Metro - only approximately half of the players are actually getting a full ride scholarship. Many of the other players are either walk-ons or getting a 1-year scholarship. That is most likely also true for Paramount as well. So for other less competitive clubs, full ride scholarship is very rare. Many club "sell" the new parents that all of their players play DI schools. What they don't mention is that most are not on a full-scholarship and are still paying to attend college. So parents need to be realistic about their DD's motivation/work ethic and natural athletic talents when deciding on the club. It is unlikely that a player on the bench will get a full-ride scholarship.

I think for Metro, it depends on the particular year as to how many of their D1 commits have 4-year, full rides, but you’re definitely correct that it’s not all. Even amongst those with athletic scholarships, different schools pay for different stuff. Some programs pay all tuition, room/board, books, and maybe even a stipend. Others maybe it’s only tuition or tuition and room/board or even less. Athletes at service academies get the same deal as everyone else so it’s technically not a scholarship but being a recruited athlete can make getting admitted easier. While still D1, Ivy League schools do not give any athletic scholarships at all.

All of this is further confirmation that looking at the cost of club volleyball as an investment that will yield returns in the form of an athletic scholarship is not realistic for most people. But I’d guess that many (if not most) of the players that want to play in college are motivated to do so because they love the game, regardless of whether there is any financial benefit or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the clubs in Montgomery County are making big profits.

Well, thank you MVSA! If MVSA was not putting pressure on the other MD clubs, we would likely see fees similar to those in VA. Virginia clubs are already trying to export their fees in MD (look at the DMV Volleyball Academy, where they charge almost $4000 for a season).

DMV Volleyball Academy fees is the most ridiculous out of all MD clubs. There are one of the worse performing club but fees are among the highest. Are they still affiliated with Vienna Elite?

As far as I know, Vienna Elite owner(s) bought the Rockville Sports Arena. Their plan was likely to export the Vienna Elite model to Maryland. I am not sure they are going to be successful in this area, especially with better clubs around charging more decent fees.

$4,000 per player and they own the practice facility!! Where is that $$$ going??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the clubs in Montgomery County are making big profits.

Well, thank you MVSA! If MVSA was not putting pressure on the other MD clubs, we would likely see fees similar to those in VA. Virginia clubs are already trying to export their fees in MD (look at the DMV Volleyball Academy, where they charge almost $4000 for a season).

DMV Volleyball Academy fees is the most ridiculous out of all MD clubs. There are one of the worse performing club but fees are among the highest. Are they still affiliated with Vienna Elite?

As far as I know, Vienna Elite owner(s) bought the Rockville Sports Arena. Their plan was likely to export the Vienna Elite model to Maryland. I am not sure they are going to be successful in this area, especially with better clubs around charging more decent fees.

$4,000 per player and they own the practice facility!! Where is that $$$ going??

The facility might be theirs on paper, but they are probably still paying for it. The same as most of our houses: we theoretically own them, but we are paying mortgage.

[Anonymous]

There's been a lot of discussion about the cost of club volleyball on threads that were supposed to serve other purpose. I will revive this thread to keep separate topics on separate threads.

Here are the Volley Viet club fees for the incoming season: $775 (13), $775 (14), and $825 (17). They use the same model of volunteer coaching as MVSA in MD, which explain why the club fee is extremely reasonable. If you pay the coach $5000 per season (this is a guess based on an earlier post from a regional coach who was making $3500 per season), you would add $500 to the fee for each player (assuming a 10 player roster). Theoretically, you could have clubs in Virginia charging a fee of $1275 and covering their expenses at the same level as Volley Viet, plus paying their coaches. If you compare that fee with that of a random VA club (let's say $5000 just to work with a number), the club gets $3725 extra from each player. A team with 10 players per roster (which does not exist in VA), takes home $37k per team after paying the minimum expenses paid by Volley Viet, plus the coach stipend. Where does the money go? Balltime/Hudl, extra conditioning, then what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's been a lot of discussion about the cost of club volleyball on threads that were supposed to serve other purpose. I will revive this thread to keep separate topics on separate threads.

Here are the Volley Viet club fees for the incoming season: $775 (13), $775 (14), and $825 (17). They use the same model of volunteer coaching as MVSA in MD, which explain why the club fee is extremely reasonable. If you pay the coach $5000 per season (this is a guess based on an earlier post from a regional coach who was making $3500 per season), you would add $500 to the fee for each player (assuming a 10 player roster). Theoretically, you could have clubs in Virginia charging a fee of $1275 and covering their expenses at the same level as Volley Viet, plus paying their coaches. If you compare that fee with that of a random VA club (let's say $5000 just to work with a number), the club gets $3725 extra from each player. A team with 10 players per roster (which does not exist in VA), takes home $37k per team after paying the minimum expenses paid by Volley Viet, plus the coach stipend. Where does the money go? Balltime/Hudl, extra conditioning, then what?

Agree that the VA clubs prices are too high, and thanks to Volley Viet for trying to keep them low.

Some items missing:
-Private school gym costs. Non-FCPS gyms can be up to $150+/hr for a court in VA and DC. Volley Viet also calls this issue out, non-FCPS gym rental isn't included.
-Number of practices and clinics. A lot of the higher level teams have switched to three practices a week. Some clubs also do club academies as well.
-Number of coaches.
-Coach travel. A 3 day driveable tournament with hotel and meals for a coach costs the same as it does for you. We played for a club with two coaches per team that added on coach travel and we paid another $1,000 for the regular season on a 13 player roster. It was a surprise that we didn't get the details on until after the season started. Now we make sure coach travel is included in the club fees. The volunteer model helps a lot here.
-Nationals. Some clubs included nationals costs in their fees, for others its an add on.

You can probably get to $2500-$3000 for teams that practice in non-FCPS facilities, pay coaches, offer conditioning and clinics/extra practices, have HUDL/Balltime, small profit per team etc. Maybe $500 more if the team travels and attends nationals, with the extra coach time required and the extra month of practices. Above that I have little doubt the extra is either direct profit for the club director or the club isn't watching expenses as closely as we all would like them to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ANSWER:
While the club director did relocate she is extremely involved with her Assistant Director, Coaching Staff, Board, and Parents/Players (no matter if they choose to make Legacy VBA their home or not). She has helped tons of families around the country find their player(s) find a college/university home! Please do not pass judgment on a person you know ZERO about. Don’t put your bias off on this Director because of your past personal experiences. This Director eats, sleeps, and breathes volleyball. It behooves you or it’s in your BEST interest to check out her YOUTUBE CHANNEL: The Volley Truth

It would be interesting if Coach Johns would tackle the rising cost of club volleyball on her YouTube channel. With inside information about the costs of renting gyms, coach stipends, attending tournaments, (plus other costs), Coach Johns could plug the numbers in an Excel sheet and provide the math behind those club fees. Now that's a truth that I would be interested in learning more about.

[Anonymous]

Platform posted their fees for the new season: https://www.platformvbc.com/2025season
Unlike MOCO and MEVC (who increased their fees this year) - Platform fees stayed close to what they were last year. MOCO might ride on the higher fees (they are a better club where players will likely return), but this is not a good sign for MEVC. Platform outperformed MEVC in our age group (didn't check for other age groups).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Platform posted their fees for the new season: https://www.platformvbc.com/2025season
Unlike MOCO and MEVC (who increased their fees this year) - Platform fees stayed close to what they were last year. MOCO might ride on the higher fees (they are a better club where players will likely return), but this is not a good sign for MEVC. Platform outperformed MEVC in our age group (didn't check for other age groups).

Aren't those the Platform fees for 2023-2024? That's what the title of the table says. We are interested in them and have been waiting for the updated fee schedule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Platform posted their fees for the new season: https://www.platformvbc.com/2025season
Unlike MOCO and MEVC (who increased their fees this year) - Platform fees stayed close to what they were last year. MOCO might ride on the higher fees (they are a better club where players will likely return), but this is not a good sign for MEVC. Platform outperformed MEVC in our age group (didn't check for other age groups).

Aren't those the Platform fees for 2023-2024? That's what the title of the table says. We are interested in them and have been waiting for the updated fee schedule.

I saw the change in the menu to "2025 Season" and the title "2024-2025 Season Information" but you are correct: the table still mentions 2023-2024 club fees. False alarm.