NCS Parents - "I wish I had known x" type advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone else thinking there is a booster from another school keeping this thread at the top of the forum. Any true fan of the school would just let the thread die.

NP here with no connection to NCS except DD was accepted but went elsewhere. Yes, I have wondered if a booster from another school, in fact from a very specic school, keeps bumping this thread up. I have no proof, but the angry poster's behavior is very strange.

Come on, spill the beans on which school! Remember, this is an anonymous forum! No one will ever know!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone else thinking there is a booster from another school keeping this thread at the top of the forum. Any true fan of the school would just let the thread die.

NP here with no connection to NCS except DD was accepted but went elsewhere. Yes, I have wondered if a booster from another school, in fact from a very specic school, keeps bumping this thread up. I have no proof, but the angry poster's behavior is very strange.

I think you are referring to the Holton mom.

I am a "disgruntled" NCS parent who has posted on this thread. I have no connection to Holton.

I don't know who you are referring to as the angry poster. I know there are quite a few of us who are critical of NCS who are posting on this thread. Since the posts from others have been specific enough to ring true to me, I have no doubt they are legitimate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What "proof" do you want? I'm not going to out my DD. Its bad enough that she went through it. I have written about the competitiveness and the way the girls don't extend a hand when a girl is having a rough time and the way the school administration blames the girl who is having a rough time and could care less about the school atmosphere. I wrote that this is our experience but also the experience of quite of few other girls, as told to me by their mothers -- girls I had assumed from outer appearances were happy. It is far from one or two girls that I have heard about. In fact, I can only think of one or two girls in my DD's class who were affirmatively happy. I have not complained about the workload. My daughter was a terrific student and we had no concerns about the academics, except for the competitiveness.

I can't prove any of this. Of course it is anecdotal in the sense that we don't have it on video or anything. But it is not gossip -- it is our direct experience. In our case, we did bring it up with the school and they could care less. And I have spoken with other parents, which is how I know it is widespread. I believe you and your DD are happy. Why are you saying I am lying?

Its not even venom I am expressing, it is sadness. I was really invested in this school. I volunteered. When DD first started I was very happy, I really loved the place, and continued to have a great deal of affection for the teachers. It is because of this affection that I feel so betrayed. I feel that sending my daughter to NCS was the worst parenting decision I made, and it really breaks my heart to admit that. I can't even drive by the place without feeling a wave of sadness.

I realize that there is one poster here who will never believe me. Honestly, I don;t care -- I think she is working awfully hard to discount all of our experiences, but OK, thats her right. I post because my direct discussions with the school failed so maybe if they see this being aired in public they will give it some thought. And I also post because, sad though this makes me, I really hope other parents don't make the same mistake we did. I would love to see the school make the changes it needs to become the amazing school it could be.

For the last time: I have never said that you are lying. I get that you are upset and hurting, I really do. But I have not ever said I didn't believe your individual story. I have said that there is no way to tell how widespread the problem is because it is based on posts on an anonymous board. How on earth do you think something being posted on DCUM is necessarily the God's honest truth? To believe anything you read on this board without independent verification is foolish. Yes, it is gossip - unsubstantiated rumors only. I have tried to verify. I have asked about 20 parents across the middle and upper schools for information and gotten zilch. I went from trying to be subtle in March to being blunt by May, and only became so paranoid about this because of this thread. I came up empty-handed. Therefore, I have to believe the evidence I have. And DCUM postings are not evidence. I believe some girls are unhappy. I also believe some girls are unhappy at every school. I do not see this as unique to the NCS culture.

[Anonymous]

I'm a different poster from 20:30, but basically agree with the approach -- don't take DCUM wisdom as gospel; try to talk to real people in the real world; also realize that some issues are probably those of the wider population (smart girls in an East Coast city) and not necessarily specific to NCS.

With that said, I do think NCS is not the warmest/most nurturing culture, at least in the Upper School; I think the school could probably do some more to work on this; and I don't question that there are a number of parents/grads who had a pretty negative experience there.

I also know many girls who have done quite well there and are happy, well-adjusted, and well-prepared for college.

[Anonymous]

21:47

Let me make this as clear as i can. I heard nothing of issues when my child was in middle school. When she was a freshman I got an earful from 2 or 3 parents and thought it was a rare thing. By the end of sophomore year my daughter and more parents were talking openly usually at the end of the year. At the end of my daughters jr year all of the seniors she knew were pretty miserable. The parents seemed shocked at how badly things were ending.
Even girls who seemed thrilled with the place were counting the minutes until it was over.

During and after graduation the toll is apparent and girls begin to open up to their parents about how bad the experience was.
Depression, eating disorders, anxiety disorders drug and alcohol abuse are the norm.

This is why many of us are regretful for having put our dauters through it. I know of five girls from my daughters class who were receiving medical care for eating disorders. All are in college and doing fine now.


I knew little about it until she was a senior. I was heart sick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
For the last time: I have never said that you are lying. I get that you are upset and hurting, I really do. But I have not ever said I didn't believe your individual story. I have said that there is no way to tell how widespread the problem is because it is based on posts on an anonymous board. How on earth do you think something being posted on DCUM is necessarily the God's honest truth? To believe anything you read on this board without independent verification is foolish. Yes, it is gossip - unsubstantiated rumors only. I have tried to verify. I have asked about 20 parents across the middle and upper schools for information and gotten zilch. I went from trying to be subtle in March to being blunt by May, and only became so paranoid about this because of this thread. I came up empty-handed. Therefore, I have to believe the evidence I have. And DCUM postings are not evidence. I believe some girls are unhappy. I also believe some girls are unhappy at every school. I do not see this as unique to the NCS culture.

OK, I think I get it now that you've described being paranoid and frantically asking around. You are scared that its true. You very much want to believe it isn't. I hope in your experience it turns out not to be.

I am not the previous poster who went through the progression by years, but it is the pattern I've seen as well. I think there is often some reluctance to speak up because if their daughters have a year or two left, they don't want to be the party pooper. How do you admit your daughter is so unhappy and yet you are putting her through another year and a half of this school? No one else is talking about it, right? Then a few moms start talking about it. In our case that was the beginning of junior year. As the year went on, there were more and more. if a middle school parent asked me, would I have told her my daughter was miserable and i thought it was a toxic environment? No, absolutely not. How do I look you in the eye and tell you that the decision we've both made is a terrible mistake. Especially if you do like the school. Trust me because I have a child at another school that the culture at NCS is unique.

Never mind evidence. I don't even know what you mean by that. In some ways an anonymous source -- such as myself and the others -- is actually more reputable than an identifiable person who is still in the middle of things.

Look, your daughter is there. I hope things work out for her and that you continue to like the school. Perhaps make a mental note to come back here is your experience changes.

As for the other NCS parents who are unhappy -- I am interested in your thoughts on why this state of affairs continues in the face of so, so much unhappiness. My theory is that it is the lack of leadership at the top. I think Kathleen Jamison is disengaged from the life of the school. She doesn't know the kids, she could probably name at most a handful in each grade. I don't know what she does all day -- raise money? -- but she doesn't lead. At STA the head of the school greets students in the morning and shakes their hands. He is a presence in their lives. The school has a leader. NCS does not have a leader and the result is a vacuum that is filled with all sorts of negative elements, a kind of soullessness. I think the only way to improve the situation is to replace her with a real leader who cares about the girls.

[Anonymous]

+1 to 20:30. We are not in upper school so check with me later. But at dinner tonight I talked to my two extremely ecstatic NCS daughters about all of the negativity that I hear about upper school. And not that we should accept their perspective but they said you would never know that this feeling existed from what they saw and heard at Flag Day tonight. They said that the seniors seemed so happy and spoke so openly about how sad they were to leave. Just sharing their perspective.

I do worry about whether I am making the right decision by having and keeping them there. But they are thriving and enjoying their experience. I would not dare make a decision to take them out based on the grumbling that I hear on this board. While there is an imbalance of discontent on this board I do get a sense that more unhappy people do things like berate a school on an anonymous board. Those who are happy are not lurking around here to post positive stuff. I think people who are unhappy and disgruntled tend to be the squeaky wheels. Same as at work. It is the disgruntled employees who take pleasure in slamming their organization in anonymous surveys. The happy ones are usually busy being happy and trying to make the place better and not looking for miserable company on this board. With that said, if I were unhappy and did not feel the school was hearing me, I may use this as a last resort as well.

I feel for those girls who had or are having a negative experience. I ended the conversation with my daughters tonight telling them that if they were ever unhappy or too stressed at school that they could leave at anytime. I also told them that if I sensed they were unhappy I would take them out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have posted several times that I believe your daughter is happy and that there are happy girls there.

Yes, I can only think of two girls in my daughters class who were happy. My daughter says the same thing. I do not know of "many girls who love the school" above the 10th grade.

If you have an older child and you speak with other parents, I can't see how you avoid the fact that many girls are unhappy. Maybe they don't share with you because you are a cheerleader. They share with me.

I wish it were different.

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!

People were not really very frank with us about the upper school experience until they were done. Then the truth comes out.

Yes. If the NCS community thinks the mean girls/mean moms atmosphere is a positive environment for high school girls then why don't they embrace it instead of denying it and demeaning those who report it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:21:47

Let me make this as clear as i can. I heard nothing of issues when my child was in middle school. When she was a freshman I got an earful from 2 or 3 parents and thought it was a rare thing. By the end of sophomore year my daughter and more parents were talking openly usually at the end of the year. At the end of my daughters jr year all of the seniors she knew were pretty miserable. The parents seemed shocked at how badly things were ending.
Even girls who seemed thrilled with the place were counting the minutes until it was over.

During and after graduation the toll is apparent and girls begin to open up to their parents about how bad the experience was.
Depression, eating disorders, anxiety disorders drug and alcohol abuse are the norm.

This is why many of us are regretful for having put our dauters through it. I know of five girls from my daughters class who were receiving medical care for eating disorders. All are in college and doing fine now.


I knew little about it until she was a senior. I was heart sick.

PP starting senior year this was my daughter's experience. I got an earful about the alcohol abuse at school in the senior's area -- drinks in coffee cups, teacher's ignoring girls who came to school drunk, girls not going to school because they felt too depressed. She told me a story of one of friends who was using drugs because she failed her precal final with a C and now considered herself a failure. Then, one evening while my daughter was doing homework I noticed her shaking and crying. She was yelling things like, "I'm nothing, I can't get anything right, I can't take it anymore..." I couldn't console her and there really wasn't anyone to talk to at the school. While yes there is a counselor we didn't feel comfortable turning to her. Her advisor attempted to start passing my concerns from one dept to the next but I could see that this was going no where fast. We sought outside therapy and after a few sessions, we decided to keep her at the school with this additional support. Fortunately, my DD was able to pour all of her energy into focusing on the "end" and fortunately her senior year was the last year. The only support she really received from the school were hearty congrats on her successful college acceptances. The summer prior to her leaving for college she said that her NCS experience began to change for her during junior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1 to 20:30. We are not in upper school so check with me later. But at dinner tonight I talked to my two extremely ecstatic NCS daughters about all of the negativity that I hear about upper school. And not that we should accept their perspective but they said you would never know that this feeling existed from what they saw and heard at Flag Day tonight. They said that the seniors seemed so happy and spoke so openly about how sad they were to leave. Just sharing their perspective.

I do worry about whether I am making the right decision by having and keeping them there. But they are thriving and enjoying their experience. I would not dare make a decision to take them out based on the grumbling that I hear on this board. While there is an imbalance of discontent on this board I do get a sense that more unhappy people do things like berate a school on an anonymous board. Those who are happy are not lurking around here to post positive stuff. I think people who are unhappy and disgruntled tend to be the squeaky wheels. Same as at work. It is the disgruntled employees who take pleasure in slamming their organization in anonymous surveys. The happy ones are usually busy being happy and trying to make the place better and not looking for miserable company on this board. With that said, if I were unhappy and did not feel the school was hearing me, I may use this as a last resort as well.

I feel for those girls who had or are having a negative experience. I ended the conversation with my daughters tonight telling them that if they were ever unhappy or too stressed at school that they could leave at anytime. I also told them that if I sensed they were unhappy I would take them out.

I am a disgruntled parent who has posted on this thread and I think your approach is exactly right. if they are happy they should stay. And if things turn, they should leave. I wish we had. Telling your daughters this will keep them from feeling trapped, which may actually help them problem solve if issues do come up. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

My DD was sitting as a senior at that flag day. Girls were smiling because they are so happy to leave. It became normal for my daughter to cry to me about her friends with eating disorders or were suffering from drug and alcohol abuse. The girls that are sad to leave are the mean girls who know they won't be as popular in college. Furthermore the girls, at the end, are told to take the younger girls under their wing and tell them how great ncs is going to get for them. The seniors do so, although it is not what they believe

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD was sitting as a senior at that flag day. Girls were smiling because they are so happy to leave. It became normal for my daughter to cry to me about her friends with eating disorders or were suffering from drug and alcohol abuse. The girls that are sad to leave are the mean girls who know they won't be as popular in college. Furthermore the girls, at the end, are told to take the younger girls under their wing and tell them how great ncs is going to get for them. The seniors do so, although it is not what they believe

I remember my daughter sitting as a senior at flag day service and afterwards looking just stunning in her beautiful white gown. She seemed so relieved as she handed out her roses to the younger girls. Next day after graduation, she removed her cap and gown dumped them in the return box and has not had anything more to do with NCS.

After your DD adjusts at college, she'll realize that the nightmare is over and will start enjoying school life again.

[Anonymous]

I am another poster who has commented here. Our comments are real, why would I waste my time pretending to be a Holton Mom? Pretty sure we will have DD seeing outside counselor for her entire tenure at NCS. I think it will be necessary...not sure how long we will stay...
On another note I just got the name of one of the bullies at the school in another grade...I am friendly with the mother, wondering if she knows how her dd is being perceived by the younger girls? What a shame,nice parents...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am another poster who has commented here. Our comments are real, why would I waste my time pretending to be a Holton Mom? Pretty sure we will have DD seeing outside counselor for her entire tenure at NCS. I think it will be necessary...not sure how long we will stay...
On another note I just got the name of one of the bullies at the school in another grade...I am friendly with the mother, wondering if she knows how her dd is being perceived by the younger girls? What a shame,nice parents...

Why are you staying? Seriously, she'll be happier elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

It seems that it's not NCS as an entire school that's the problem- but perhaps what begins to happen junior and senior years. It seems most people are happy until then.