MTV provides New Years resolutions for white people

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Which one of those resolutions do you find offensive? They sound like common sense to me.

The premise itself is offensive and hypocritical. The underlying assumption here that it's accurate and acceptable to attribute behavior/ideology to a group based on race/gender.

It seems to me that you either (a) believe in judging people as individuals, based on their words/actions, or (b) you believe in judging people based on their group "identity".

As a matter of principle, most don't tolerate judging people based on identity--it's anathema to our ideals.

So why then is it acceptable when it comes to white men?

Sincere question--I've never understood how people could justify this apparent inconsistency as a matter of principle.

First, the video is not a serious political tract but is light-hearted and humorous. It is really aimed at our dominant culture, but identifies white men because of the inordinate role they play in that culture. The video acknowledges that many white men already follow the proposed resolutions. That reflects the understanding that people are individuals, not groups.

Seriously, all of you are going to have heart attacks if you let things like this bother you. You would be much better off, regardless of your race or gender, by giving consideration to the message of the video rather than doing your best to be offended by it.

It seems to me that you don't really contest that the principle is wrong, but instead are arguing that (1) it's not really about white men, (2) it's humorous, so we shouldn't take it seriously, and (3) we shouldn't be so offended by it.

That's essentially what people say to justify telling off-color, racist, or sexist jokes. "Relax, it's just a joke. It's not about YOU. Don't take it so personally!"

I'm not offended by the content--no heart attack here. I AM offended by the principle, and you should be too.

Why? Because it's wrong, and because if we accept it when directed at white men, it makes it harder to decry when directed at others. To use the common term these days, it "legitimizes" the behavior. Indeed, it encourages the proliferation of that behavior.

In my estimation, that's the last thing we need.

The difference between this list of resolutions and similar lists directed at minorities is that the lists aimed at minorities generally exploit their disadvantaged position in society. Do your own thought experiment and try to come up with resolutions for black people. What do you come up with? I would not be surprised if they were things like "don't riot when one of your thug friends get shot running from the police". The MTV list, in contrast, is basically a list of ways to be more tolerant. It is notable that in my first post -- which was the first response of this thread -- I asked which specific resolution was offensive. The only resolution identified was identified by a poster who said she is a black woman. None of the white posters have identified a specific resolution that they found offensive. Rather, several have said that the entire idea of a list aimed at white men -- even if the list was entirely made up of inoffensive items -- was offensive. I find that idea to be ridiculous and an indication of people who are looking to be offended and probably could benefit from the resolutions offered.

Now you're defending your perspective and using it to judge the feelings of others.

The whole premise of the video is offensive in that it presumes/assumes that all white men fail to understand the "resolutions". I would find a list for any other group to be offensive as well.

The fact that you don't see how others can be offended is offensive, especially considering you moderate these forums.

[Anonymous]

I'm white and my problem with it is not that I am offended by it. I think it's bad for where our country is right now and counterproductive to fixing a "divided nation" which people from all races/groups/beliefs are concerned about. Like someone else said, it might feel good, but it's not helping us. Kind of like jabbing an insult at your spouse in a disagreement may feel good in the moment, but it causes damage and is bad for the relationship overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Which one of those resolutions do you find offensive? They sound like common sense to me.

The general notion that "white men" are responsive for all of the country's problems is obnoxious. That is the group that built this country, for the most part. It's just such a whiny cry-baby attitude. I don't think these people realize that most of the country doesn't take them seriously.

Slaves physically built this country.

We all built this country.

and we built it on rock and roll

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Which one of those resolutions do you find offensive? They sound like common sense to me.

The general notion that "white men" are responsive for all of the country's problems is obnoxious. That is the group that built this country, for the most part. It's just such a whiny cry-baby attitude. I don't think these people realize that most of the country doesn't take them seriously.

Slaves physically built this country.

Slaves picked cotton. White Europeans built factories and invented things that you use everyday. Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, and Alexander Graham Bell where not slaves. Quit trying to rewrite history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The war against white men, it's been the mantra for years now and if you have a white son you personally have seen the affects of this on their self esteem. That is, if your being honest. Black people are not the only oppressed group, but you keep carrying this hate in your minds for white men and the dens will not see high office again. White men are what built this country and died in the thousands to fight for property rights in the civil war to free people of ownership, to name just a few things. We seem to forget just how much white men live this country and their fellow countrymen. God I can't wait for Obama to get his decisive lying ass out.

yikes.

+1

I'm a black American who's deeply opposed to the MTV video and other things like it because of people like the first PP quoted. They have a deep victim mentality, paranoia, and fear about their increasingly-worse situation in this nation- their high suicide rates, rising rates of addiction and subsequent deaths, worsening economic and job outlook, and decreasing family stability. Instead of blaming themselves- as these men have previously blamed disadvantaged groups for their own poor situation- they lash out, blaming other groups and societal factors. They have a victim complex. Unfortunately, much of liberal politics reinforces this with drivel like the MTV video- so now not only do they have this internal rage and lack of personal responsibility, they have tangible proof of "others" disparaging them.

This is not a good thing. This is not politically savvy for liberals. It might feel good to do, but you are fueling the hateful "opposition" and giving them evidence they can use to recruit others to extremist views.

Yes. Unfortunately white fragility is real and it has to be dealt with carefully. I do think that, more legitimately, as we become a majority-minority country, we need to give these people positive ways to relate to their whiteness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Which one of those resolutions do you find offensive? They sound like common sense to me.

The general notion that "white men" are responsive for all of the country's problems is obnoxious. That is the group that built this country, for the most part. It's just such a whiny cry-baby attitude. I don't think these people realize that most of the country doesn't take them seriously.

Slaves physically built this country.

Slaves picked cotton. White Europeans built factories and invented things that you use everyday. Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, and Alexander Graham Bell where not slaves. Quit trying to rewrite history.

Look, I'm not going to get into an argument with you about ante-bellum economics. I'm just going to point out that to the extent slaves picked cotton it is BECAUSE THEY WERE SLAVES. Not because they weren't Thomas Edisons and Henry Fords. Slaves physically built this country and their history is interwoven with the nation's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Which one of those resolutions do you find offensive? They sound like common sense to me.

The general notion that "white men" are responsive for all of the country's problems is obnoxious. That is the group that built this country, for the most part. It's just such a whiny cry-baby attitude. I don't think these people realize that most of the country doesn't take them seriously.

Slaves physically built this country.

Slaves picked cotton. White Europeans built factories and invented things that you use everyday. Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, and Alexander Graham Bell where not slaves. Quit trying to rewrite history.

Look, I'm not going to get into an argument with you about ante-bellum economics. I'm just going to point out that to the extent slaves picked cotton it is BECAUSE THEY WERE SLAVES. Not because they weren't Thomas Edisons and Henry Fords. Slaves physically built this country and their history is interwoven with the nation's.

ALSO ps your logic is so laughable that again it gives me comfort.

[Anonymous]

I wish they make it more universal - like include LGBTQ or other stereotypes by all races and backgrounds.

Not just target white people.

[Anonymous]

I find it interesting that white women are not include in this stereotyping. If you take for a fact that white men are the oppressors, white women being the daughters and wives of white men benefit and are complicit in the oppression. Yet they think of themselves as the equivalent of a person of color. Maybe it's just the self bias of white liberal women that will not let them think of themselves as the oppressors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm white and my problem with it is not that I am offended by it. I think it's bad for where our country is right now and counterproductive to fixing a "divided nation" which people from all races/groups/beliefs are concerned about. Like someone else said, it might feel good, but it's not helping us. Kind of like jabbing an insult at your spouse in a disagreement may feel good in the moment, but it causes damage and is bad for the relationship overall.

Well, the solution for dealing with this divided country certainly doesn't begin with pretending the issues don't exist or not allowing anyone to talk about it. Yes, it's uncomfortable. But real life requires dealing with uncomfortable situations. Until people start acknowledging that yes, there are in fact discriminatory behaviors and hate crimes and other things happening because of race, gender, ethnicity and we all start dealing with it in an effective way, nothing will ever change. Evil happens because good people stand by and do nothing. When someone on the left condemns racist neo-nazis like Richard Spencer, there really isn't any valid, responsible or ethical reason why good people on the right can't or shouldn't also join in to condemn them other than partisan tribalism - and that partisan tribalism just reinforces the divide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The war against white men, it's been the mantra for years now and if you have a white son you personally have seen the affects of this on their self esteem. That is, if your being honest. Black people are not the only oppressed group, but you keep carrying this hate in your minds for white men and the dens will not see high office again. White men are what built this country and died in the thousands to fight for property rights in the civil war to free people of ownership, to name just a few things. We seem to forget just how much white men live this country and their fellow countrymen. God I can't wait for Obama to get his decisive lying ass out.

yikes.

+1

I'm a black American who's deeply opposed to the MTV video and other things like it because of people like the first PP quoted. They have a deep victim mentality, paranoia, and fear about their increasingly-worse situation in this nation- their high suicide rates, rising rates of addiction and subsequent deaths, worsening economic and job outlook, and decreasing family stability. Instead of blaming themselves- as these men have previously blamed disadvantaged groups for their own poor situation- they lash out, blaming other groups and societal factors. They have a victim complex. Unfortunately, much of liberal politics reinforces this with drivel like the MTV video- so now not only do they have this internal rage and lack of personal responsibility, they have tangible proof of "others" disparaging them.

This is not a good thing. This is not politically savvy for liberals. It might feel good to do, but you are fueling the hateful "opposition" and giving them evidence they can use to recruit others to extremist views.

Yes. Unfortunately white fragility is real and it has to be dealt with carefully. I do think that, more legitimately, as we become a majority-minority country, we need to give these people positive ways to relate to their whiteness.

Yes wake up majority-minority people....by majority minority are you talking hispanics, asians or blacks? Because I am one of those but definitely not the other two and feel threaten by them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm white and my problem with it is not that I am offended by it. I think it's bad for where our country is right now and counterproductive to fixing a "divided nation" which people from all races/groups/beliefs are concerned about. Like someone else said, it might feel good, but it's not helping us. Kind of like jabbing an insult at your spouse in a disagreement may feel good in the moment, but it causes damage and is bad for the relationship overall.

Well, the solution for dealing with this divided country certainly doesn't begin with pretending the issues don't exist or not allowing anyone to talk about it. Yes, it's uncomfortable. But real life requires dealing with uncomfortable situations. Until people start acknowledging that yes, there are in fact discriminatory behaviors and hate crimes and other things happening because of race, gender, ethnicity and we all start dealing with it in an effective way, nothing will ever change. Evil happens because good people stand by and do nothing. When someone on the left condemns racist neo-nazis like Richard Spencer, there really isn't any valid, responsible or ethical reason why good people on the right can't or shouldn't also join in to condemn them other than partisan tribalism - and that partisan tribalism just reinforces the divide.

Your points are exactly correct and your conclusions dead wrong.

The way to address discriminatory behavior is to confront it as wrong b/c it is anathema to our ideals.

But the MTV approach is to confront discriminatory behavior by ... being discriminatory.

That approach results in the partisan backlash and absurd hypocrisy by both sides.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Which one of those resolutions do you find offensive? They sound like common sense to me.

The premise itself is offensive and hypocritical. The underlying assumption here that it's accurate and acceptable to attribute behavior/ideology to a group based on race/gender.

It seems to me that you either (a) believe in judging people as individuals, based on their words/actions, or (b) you believe in judging people based on their group "identity".

As a matter of principle, most don't tolerate judging people based on identity--it's anathema to our ideals.

So why then is it acceptable when it comes to white men?

Sincere question--I've never understood how people could justify this apparent inconsistency as a matter of principle.

First, the video is not a serious political tract but is light-hearted and humorous. It is really aimed at our dominant culture, but identifies white men because of the inordinate role they play in that culture. The video acknowledges that many white men already follow the proposed resolutions. That reflects the understanding that people are individuals, not groups.

Seriously, all of you are going to have heart attacks if you let things like this bother you. You would be much better off, regardless of your race or gender, by giving consideration to the message of the video rather than doing your best to be offended by it.

In other words, white people need to just get over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Which one of those resolutions do you find offensive? They sound like common sense to me.

The premise itself is offensive and hypocritical. The underlying assumption here that it's accurate and acceptable to attribute behavior/ideology to a group based on race/gender.

It seems to me that you either (a) believe in judging people as individuals, based on their words/actions, or (b) you believe in judging people based on their group "identity".

As a matter of principle, most don't tolerate judging people based on identity--it's anathema to our ideals.

So why then is it acceptable when it comes to white men?

Sincere question--I've never understood how people could justify this apparent inconsistency as a matter of principle.

First, the video is not a serious political tract but is light-hearted and humorous. It is really aimed at our dominant culture, but identifies white men because of the inordinate role they play in that culture. The video acknowledges that many white men already follow the proposed resolutions. That reflects the understanding that people are individuals, not groups.

Seriously, all of you are going to have heart attacks if you let things like this bother you. You would be much better off, regardless of your race or gender, by giving consideration to the message of the video rather than doing your best to be offended by it.

In other words, white people need to just get over it.

They should and many of us have. But many won't. And so here we are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it interesting that white women are not include in this stereotyping. If you take for a fact that white men are the oppressors, white women being the daughters and wives of white men benefit and are complicit in the oppression. Yet they think of themselves as the equivalent of a person of color. Maybe it's just the self bias of white liberal women that will not let them think of themselves as the oppressors.

Many of us white women learned long ago the prowess of the African American male was far superior that of white men so please do not include us in this.