Want to raise happy, successful kids? ‘Wait as long as possible’ to give them a phone’ (Yale)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 46 and sometimes I feel like I shouldn't have a phone either.

Most insightful comment yet. This is correct. I think in 20 years we'll look back in amazement at our voluntary embrace of this addiction.

+1

[Anonymous]

I think probably “phone” in this case is short for social media.

IMO, it makes sense to avoid social media for as long as possible.

But meanwhile a 12-year-old can get a smart phone with all the parental controls set up so that they can check their homework, play Spotify, check the weather or check a bus route, text their parents or friends, etc but not access social media or YouTube.

Parents really need to take the time to figure out how to set up and manage parental controls before they hand a young tween their first phone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Done.

I also think we should be talking more about not giving kids tablets at 4 or 5. It just hooks them on screens and apps and wires their brains for it, even if they are doing "learning apps" and not on social media at that age.

It's hard, but if you can just resist the urge to buy them an iPad as long as possible, it's good for their brains. It's one thing to give them a tablet occasionally as a one off on a long plane ride or to survive an interminable wait at a doctors office. But see if you can get them to live mostly screen-free on an average day. If they watch TV/movies, make them watch it on an actual TV where they aren't interacting with the screen in that intimate way.

I really think it makes a big difference in development -- mental, emotional, social.

4 or 5? Try taking them away from the toddlers and you'll be making serious progress. Cannot tell you how many 2 and 3 year old sideline siblings I see at my elementary kids' sporting events glued to tablets.

I'm not a perfect parent by far and all these other people probably have many areas where they are superior to me, but I did avoid that mistake.

Agreed. And I am also not the perfect parent. But FWIW it has not been super hard at all to be tablet free so far - my kids are 5 and 3. Yes they are annoying to deal with restaurants but for me it is worth it overall to NEVER HAVE THEM ASKING ME FOR A TABLET/SCREEN/GAME etc. I find the whining and entitlement SO ANNOYING (can you tell??) I also want them to tune into their surroundings, observe social dynamics etc. I learned so much as a kid just passively observing things like my mom talking to the grocery store butcher and whatnot. It was fascinating to me to observe all the interpersonal dynamics in the world. is hard to explain but it is something I want my kids to experience.

To me the real payoff came at 7 when DC started reading chapter books and became happily engrossed in them whenever there was downtime. If you can hold out for this, it's gold. You wind up with a kid who has an attention span and can be entertained without needing the constant stimulation/feedback of a tablet. Even if your kid isn't a huge reader, even if you don't live the books they read, even if it's graphic novels. It's all STILL better than a phone/tablet. But you need to be willing to stay strong through those preschool and early elementary years. Your reward starts in mid-elementary and just increases with time because the patience/attention span/self-entertaining skills increase. So even when your kid gets a phone in MS, they have the ability to not be glued to it. You can take it away. You can set limits at night and during homework and family time. And they won't flip out because they haven't spent the last decade training their brain to respond to a little screen in their hands 24/7.

Btw, I've made a million parenting mistakes, y'all could rake me over the coals for so much. But this I am rightfully proud of because it worked and it was not easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This comes directly from an expert at Yale:

- if you gave your kid a phone between ages 8 to 12, you did it wrong and need to take the phone away.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/23/wait-as-long-as-possible-to-give-kids-a-phone-yale-psychology-expert.html

Oh, well if it’s from an “expert at Yale”. . . .

Sure it’s an opportunity cost to leave your kid on a phone for hours on end, but there are benefits. Like knowing when and which door to pick my kid up after their several hours of sport and after school activities - where they aren’t glued to their phones. There are no pay phones like back in our day. Also, you will see the age and restriction level shift drastically depending on which “expert” is flapping their gob. The only thing they can agree on is limit usage and monitor content.

no need to “take the phone away” unless you are just insecure and have a knee jerk reaction to every piece of advice.

It’s actually common sense but people are so stupid they need to hear it from experts. Defending your choice to give your young kids phones because you can’t handle two seconds of ambiguity about where to pick them up is straight up weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This comes directly from an expert at Yale:

- if you gave your kid a phone between ages 8 to 12, you did it wrong and need to take the phone away.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/23/wait-as-long-as-possible-to-give-kids-a-phone-yale-psychology-expert.html

Oh, well if it’s from an “expert at Yale”. . . .

Sure it’s an opportunity cost to leave your kid on a phone for hours on end, but there are benefits. Like knowing when and which door to pick my kid up after their several hours of sport and after school activities - where they aren’t glued to their phones. There are no pay phones like back in our day. Also, you will see the age and restriction level shift drastically depending on which “expert” is flapping their gob. The only thing they can agree on is limit usage and monitor content.

no need to “take the phone away” unless you are just insecure and have a knee jerk reaction to every piece of advice.

It’s actually common sense but people are so stupid they need to hear it from experts. Defending your choice to give your young kids phones because you can’t handle two seconds of ambiguity about where to pick them up is straight up weird.

+1. And we need more academics weighing in on this because we need schools to get phones and tablets out of elementary schools, and since some parents will NEVER learn, we need education pedagogy to swing. That means I'll take all the Ivy league experts we can find to reinforce the extremely obvious idea that small children shouldn't be using personal screens because it's messing with their brain development (not just academics but social and emotional too).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 46 and sometimes I feel like I shouldn't have a phone either.

Most insightful comment yet. This is correct. I think in 20 years we'll look back in amazement at our voluntary embrace of this addiction.

+1

+1 million. There would be a real market for someone wanting to help adults get off their phones. I’d sign up in a heartbeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This comes directly from an expert at Yale:

- if you gave your kid a phone between ages 8 to 12, you did it wrong and need to take the phone away.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/23/wait-as-long-as-possible-to-give-kids-a-phone-yale-psychology-expert.html

Oh, well if it’s from an “expert at Yale”. . . .

Sure it’s an opportunity cost to leave your kid on a phone for hours on end, but there are benefits. Like knowing when and which door to pick my kid up after their several hours of sport and after school activities - where they aren’t glued to their phones. There are no pay phones like back in our day. Also, you will see the age and restriction level shift drastically depending on which “expert” is flapping their gob. The only thing they can agree on is limit usage and monitor content.

no need to “take the phone away” unless you are just insecure and have a knee jerk reaction to every piece of advice.

It’s actually common sense but people are so stupid they need to hear it from experts. Defending your choice to give your young kids phones because you can’t handle two seconds of ambiguity about where to pick them up is straight up weird.

+1. And we need more academics weighing in on this because we need schools to get phones and tablets out of elementary schools, and since some parents will NEVER learn, we need education pedagogy to swing. That means I'll take all the Ivy league experts we can find to reinforce the extremely obvious idea that small children shouldn't be using personal screens because it's messing with their brain development (not just academics but social and emotional too).

+100

[Anonymous]

We successfully avoided screens for the most part until my oldest was 5. We had a weekly movie night, but that was pretty much it. She got an ipad on long plane trips or drives over 3 hours.

Then school gave her a laptop in K. She spends about 5 hours on it at school (we get a weekly screentime report) and then has "homework" on certain apps at night.

I think schools have to keep kids on laptops because they don't differentiate classrooms enough. There are way too many levels for one teacher to teach, so they use the laptops instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 46 and sometimes I feel like I shouldn't have a phone either.

Most insightful comment yet. This is correct. I think in 20 years we'll look back in amazement at our voluntary embrace of this addiction.

+1

+1 million. There would be a real market for someone wanting to help adults get off their phones. I’d sign up in a heartbeat.

Same. I had to disable facebook because I liked to scroll. I need to disable inta too. Sometimes it's just too easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think probably “phone” in this case is short for social media.

IMO, it makes sense to avoid social media for as long as possible.

But meanwhile a 12-year-old can get a smart phone with all the parental controls set up so that they can check their homework, play Spotify, check the weather or check a bus route, text their parents or friends, etc but not access social media or YouTube.

Parents really need to take the time to figure out how to set up and manage parental controls before they hand a young tween their first phone.

Sure. And then you start the skirmishes where they figure out how to get around those restrictions, then you install some parental security app, then they figure out how to get around it, then...

No thank you. I don't want to start a series of sneaky battles with my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am definitely willing to die on the no tablets/smart phones hill. They are addictive. That’s why they should not be provided to kids. Their brains will not develop the way they are meant to and they will be addicted to instant gratification. They are addictive to adults too (why else are any of us on DCUM) but as a parent I can make a better choice for my kids. I don’t have a teen yet but I DGAF if it means they have no friends. They are still better off. And I don’t believe they need to see everything that happens on social media to have friends. And as for hassling me about having a phone, it’s easier to say no clearly and firmly than to constantly negotiate and police boundaries.

Okay, you might change your mind about that one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm 46 and sometimes I feel like I shouldn't have a phone either.

Same here. This is why I really hate to ever give my kid a phone. It’s too addicting.

[Anonymous]

This is news? I could have told you this, OP.

[Anonymous]

I'm a child therapist who sees mostly kids with severe anxiety. Some stray thoughts:

1. Yes, wait as long as possible for phones, especially smart phones and social media. My kids are young but my policy will be no smart phone till they're 18 and can buy it themselves. Lots of parental education about why they are harmful, just like you discuss alcohol, drugs and pornography.

2. Tablet time isn't so black and white. The issue is the lack of interaction and emotional connection/learning. The idea that screens actually cause ADHD is a myth- there is a correlation between screen use and ADHD but it might be correlation vs causation, they just don't know. My kids have tablets but are only allowed to use them on airplanes and at home if they have already had outside time, done chores and played a physical game or done legos/puzzles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This comes directly from an expert at Yale:

- if you gave your kid a phone between ages 8 to 12, you did it wrong and need to take the phone away.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/23/wait-as-long-as-possible-to-give-kids-a-phone-yale-psychology-expert.html

Oh, well if it’s from an “expert at Yale”. . . .

Sure it’s an opportunity cost to leave your kid on a phone for hours on end, but there are benefits. Like knowing when and which door to pick my kid up after their several hours of sport and after school activities - where they aren’t glued to their phones. There are no pay phones like back in our day. Also, you will see the age and restriction level shift drastically depending on which “expert” is flapping their gob. The only thing they can agree on is limit usage and monitor content.

no need to “take the phone away” unless you are just insecure and have a knee jerk reaction to every piece of advice.

It’s actually common sense but people are so stupid they need to hear it from experts. Defending your choice to give your young kids phones because you can’t handle two seconds of ambiguity about where to pick them up is straight up weird.

+1. And we need more academics weighing in on this because we need schools to get phones and tablets out of elementary schools, and since some parents will NEVER learn, we need education pedagogy to swing. That means I'll take all the Ivy league experts we can find to reinforce the extremely obvious idea that small children shouldn't be using personal screens because it's messing with their brain development (not just academics but social and emotional too).

It seems obvious, yet the common person somehow does not get this.

It is as if the common person present in America in 2024 lacks common sense.

Have we fallen so far as a nation?