Protests on college campuses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

I haven't seen anyone say that.
What I have seen is examples of antisemitic rhetoric being said and seen at these protests.

You have to admit that not every protest against Israel is peaceful and lawful. And, that many of them are antisemitic.
More importantly, some of these protests praise the terrorists and the countries that harbor them.

BS. Most of these protests have prominent Jewish groups in them! They are also peaceful until the cops show up and start brutalizing the protestors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

I haven't seen anyone say that.
What I have seen is examples of antisemitic rhetoric being said and seen at these protests.

You have to admit that not every protest against Israel is peaceful and lawful. And, that many of them are antisemitic.
More importantly, some of these protests praise the terrorists and the countries that harbor them.

BS. Most of these protests have prominent Jewish groups in them! They are also peaceful until the cops show up and start brutalizing the protestors.

"Most" is a strong word in that sentence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

I haven't seen anyone say that.
What I have seen is examples of antisemitic rhetoric being said and seen at these protests.

You have to admit that not every protest against Israel is peaceful and lawful. And, that many of them are antisemitic.
More importantly, some of these protests praise the terrorists and the countries that harbor them.

BS. Most of these protests have prominent Jewish groups in them! They are also peaceful until the cops show up and start brutalizing the protestors.

"Most" is a strong word in that sentence.

As is "brutalizing".

A little hysterical, I'd say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

I haven't seen anyone say that.
What I have seen is examples of antisemitic rhetoric being said and seen at these protests.

You have to admit that not every protest against Israel is peaceful and lawful. And, that many of them are antisemitic.
More importantly, some of these protests praise the terrorists and the countries that harbor them.

+1

I've seen limited antisemitism, BUT have seen LOTS of (a) support for terrorism, and (b) even more calls for the elimination/abolition of Israel, regardless of the will of the Israeli people or the consequences for them.

These may not be "antisemitism" per se, but they are awful.

Israel is an apartheid state. Just like South Africa became a pariah state in the 1980s so too is Israel becoming a pariah state. Sorry but the world is not beholden to the powerful pro-Israel lobby that exists here in the US. They see the truth. And thankfully, so do our younger generations/students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

I haven't seen anyone say that.
What I have seen is examples of antisemitic rhetoric being said and seen at these protests.

You have to admit that not every protest against Israel is peaceful and lawful. And, that many of them are antisemitic.
More importantly, some of these protests praise the terrorists and the countries that harbor them.

+1

I've seen limited antisemitism, BUT have seen LOTS of (a) support for terrorism, and (b) even more calls for the elimination/abolition of Israel, regardless of the will of the Israeli people or the consequences for them.

These may not be "antisemitism" per se, but they are awful.

Israel is an apartheid state. Just like South Africa became a pariah state in the 1980s so too is Israel becoming a pariah state. Sorry but the world is not beholden to the powerful pro-Israel lobby that exists here in the US. They see the truth. And thankfully, so do our younger generations/students.

FTR, Israel could probably always have been considered a pariah state since it is officially unrecognized by 28 UN member states (members of the Arab League or on-Arab members of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation).

If you are saying that it is becoming a pariah state to the US, or more specifically to some American college students, well, possible. But seems unlikely to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

Yes, it shuts down debate. That’s the whole point. Israel’s supporters have been doing that for decades. “Oh, you support Palestinians? Then you support terrorists!” No, we don’t support terrorists. We support the Palestinian people who have been suffering for decades under a brutal Israeli military occupation.

If the one happen to be the other, then what?

If you insist on lying that all Palestinians = Hamas, and that because of that false logic, all protesters = supporters of Hamas, then you are welcoming a pivot to those protesters actually showing you what real anti-semitism could look like. People who simply want to stop the indiscriminate genocidal carnage in the Middle East are getting fed up with being accused of being supporters of Hamas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

Yes, it shuts down debate. That’s the whole point. Israel’s supporters have been doing that for decades. “Oh, you support Palestinians? Then you support terrorists!” No, we don’t support terrorists. We support the Palestinian people who have been suffering for decades under a brutal Israeli military occupation.

If the one happen to be the other, then what?

If you insist on lying that all Palestinians = Hamas, and that because of that false logic, all protesters = supporters of Hamas, then you are welcoming a pivot to those protesters actually showing you what real anti-semitism could look like. People who simply want to stop the indiscriminate genocidal carnage in the Middle East are getting fed up with being accused of being supporters of Hamas.

Okay. So you are saying that you support all Palestinians who are not Hamas and do not support the current local government of Gaza, which is Hamas. That makes sense, from a moral point of view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

I haven't seen anyone say that.
What I have seen is examples of antisemitic rhetoric being said and seen at these protests.

You have to admit that not every protest against Israel is peaceful and lawful. And, that many of them are antisemitic.
More importantly, some of these protests praise the terrorists and the countries that harbor them.

+1

I've seen limited antisemitism, BUT have seen LOTS of (a) support for terrorism, and (b) even more calls for the elimination/abolition of Israel, regardless of the will of the Israeli people or the consequences for them.

These may not be "antisemitism" per se, but they are awful.

Israel is an apartheid state. Just like South Africa became a pariah state in the 1980s so too is Israel becoming a pariah state. Sorry but the world is not beholden to the powerful pro-Israel lobby that exists here in the US. They see the truth. And thankfully, so do our younger generations/students.

There's plenty of room for criticism of Israel and its actions, but calling for the annihilation of a nation?

I'd say you don't have much ground to stand on in terms of criticizing other's humanity.

Pot, meet kettle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

Yes, it shuts down debate. That’s the whole point. Israel’s supporters have been doing that for decades. “Oh, you support Palestinians? Then you support terrorists!” No, we don’t support terrorists. We support the Palestinian people who have been suffering for decades under a brutal Israeli military occupation.

If the one happen to be the other, then what?

So are you suggesting that ALL Palestinians are terrorists? I'm a new poster and I think you are a wacko!
In fact if your answer is yes which is what you are insinuating by your question above, I would say you are a racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

Yes, it shuts down debate. That’s the whole point. Israel’s supporters have been doing that for decades. “Oh, you support Palestinians? Then you support terrorists!” No, we don’t support terrorists. We support the Palestinian people who have been suffering for decades under a brutal Israeli military occupation.

If the one happen to be the other, then what?

If you insist on lying that all Palestinians = Hamas, and that because of that false logic, all protesters = supporters of Hamas, then you are welcoming a pivot to those protesters actually showing you what real anti-semitism could look like. People who simply want to stop the indiscriminate genocidal carnage in the Middle East are getting fed up with being accused of being supporters of Hamas.

DP.

What about all the people on US campuses who have EXPLICITLY supported Hamas?

There are literally hundreds of examples.

And you're standing next to them.

Are you so forgiving of the January 6th protesters who were just there "to support democracy" and didn't riot?

I'd guess not.

Interesting question here: how should we treat peaceful protesters who peacefully protest alongside protesters advocating for violence?

Seems like we ought to establish a principled position that applies regardless of political position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

Yes, it shuts down debate. That’s the whole point. Israel’s supporters have been doing that for decades. “Oh, you support Palestinians? Then you support terrorists!” No, we don’t support terrorists. We support the Palestinian people who have been suffering for decades under a brutal Israeli military occupation.

If the one happen to be the other, then what?

So are you suggesting that ALL Palestinians are terrorists? I'm a new poster and I think you are a wacko!
In fact if your answer is yes which is what you are insinuating by your question above, I would say you are a racist.

PP here. I wasn't trying to insinuate. Obviously not all Palestinians are Hamas. The government of Gaza is Hamas, and I'm not sure if you would prefer to keep them or replace them, if you were in charge. And a number of adults in Gaza are Hamas or support Hamas, not sure what you would do with them either. You haven't said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

Yes, it shuts down debate. That’s the whole point. Israel’s supporters have been doing that for decades. “Oh, you support Palestinians? Then you support terrorists!” No, we don’t support terrorists. We support the Palestinian people who have been suffering for decades under a brutal Israeli military occupation.

If the one happen to be the other, then what?

If you insist on lying that all Palestinians = Hamas, and that because of that false logic, all protesters = supporters of Hamas, then you are welcoming a pivot to those protesters actually showing you what real anti-semitism could look like. People who simply want to stop the indiscriminate genocidal carnage in the Middle East are getting fed up with being accused of being supporters of Hamas.

Okay. So you are saying that you support all Palestinians who are not Hamas and do not support the current local government of Gaza, which is Hamas. That makes sense, from a moral point of view.

OF COURSE that’s what I’m saying. That’s what anyone and everyone opposed to the conflict continuing and/or calling for a ceasefire is saying.

NOBODY I’ve ever encountered here has made a statement or insinuated that they are supportive of Hamas. F Hamas. There’s 100% consensus on that point.

As far as the protesters, I’d wager a lot that the vast, vast majority are not supportive of Hamas at all, but that a few fringe weirdos (like the Columbia kid banned from campus) are making pro-Hamas statements, along with the well-documented pro-Israeli counter-protesters who are trying desperately to make vile, provocative statements to draw condemnation to the protests.

Furthermore, I ALSO support all Israelis who recognize and oppose the apartheid actions of the Israeli government, and who at least recognize that innocent Palestinians have been brutally displaced in the process of establishing and illegally expanding Israel. To me, that’s akin to me, as an American, opposing essentially all U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East region.

But again, nobody credible is “supporting Hamas”. It’s just not happening. So painting protesters with that brush is only driving the wedge further.

[Anonymous]

From the people who use the Bible as a legal document. This is what Tribalism
looks like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to stop buying into the argument that any protest against the actions of the government of Israel automatically equates to antisemitism. It's a cheap, cynical mechanism to avoid debate.

Yes, it shuts down debate. That’s the whole point. Israel’s supporters have been doing that for decades. “Oh, you support Palestinians? Then you support terrorists!” No, we don’t support terrorists. We support the Palestinian people who have been suffering for decades under a brutal Israeli military occupation.

If the one happen to be the other, then what?

If you insist on lying that all Palestinians = Hamas, and that because of that false logic, all protesters = supporters of Hamas, then you are welcoming a pivot to those protesters actually showing you what real anti-semitism could look like. People who simply want to stop the indiscriminate genocidal carnage in the Middle East are getting fed up with being accused of being supporters of Hamas.

DP.

What about all the people on US campuses who have EXPLICITLY supported Hamas?

There are literally hundreds of examples.

And you're standing next to them.

Are you so forgiving of the January 6th protesters who were just there "to support democracy" and didn't riot?

I'd guess not.

Interesting question here: how should we treat peaceful protesters who peacefully protest alongside protesters advocating for violence?

Seems like we ought to establish a principled position that applies regardless of political position.

ANYONE articulating support for Hamas should be accountable for just that - being supportive of a terrorist organization, or at least ignorant as to the significance of their support. For those literal examples you mention, yes … condemn them all day long. I do, too. I just don’t think they are close to being the majority of these protesters.

Where it also gets a bit murky is where Hamas also has certain civilian agency functions (like staffing hospitals with physicians and nurses, etc.) because they have been the de facto local government in Gaza, and I would exempt the supporters and employees of those civilian agencies because professional association with Hamas has been unavoidable for them, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the people who use the Bible as a legal document. This is what Tribalism
looks like.

PA has elected a public official who berates the public.