MCPS Redisricting - offshoot from open enrollment/busing thread

[Anonymous]

This is an off-shoot from the busing/open enrollment thread.

Someone on the other thread mentioned that Cold Spring was under capacity. So I looked at the enrollment figures on MCPS for a few schools around the CS ES to see what the capacities of those schools were. I was quite shocked.

example:
- Fallsmead: under capacity by 50
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02233.pdf

- Cold Spring: under capacity by about 120
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02238.pdf

- Ritchie Park: OVER capacity by about 160
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02227.pdf

- Beverly Farms: under capacity by 100
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02226.pdf

- Stone Mills: at about capacity (under by 10)
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02653.pdf

Just within a few miles you have 3 schools with a total under capacity level of about 270, and then one school over capacity by 160. How is this possible?

I generally agree that busing is not a good idea, but what about redistricting just to even out the capacity? That makes total sense to me. I don't understand why no one else is seeing this. Instead of adding more buildings in schools wouldn't it be cheaper to redistrict for the time being? Admittedly, I don't know all the nuances of redistricting, but this seems like a no brainer to me.

[Anonymous]

You've got three HS clusters represented in your list, so that's a complicating factor. Ritchie goes to Richard Montgomery. Cold Spring goes to Wootton. I am willing to bet people bought houses based on the cluster assignment, and the house prices reflected the market perception of the school cluster. I'm wondering what the reason for Cold Spring's underenrollment. Did the building just go through a physical expansion? There may be facts that aren't reflected in the at-a-glance sheets.

For instance, Westbrook now shows that it is undercapacity by nearly 130, while nearby Wood Acres is over capacity by nearly 250. Looks crazy, right? But I think Westbrook just went through a facility expansion to get rid of portables, and Wood Acres is about to start one. So the building capacities will work out based on whatever analysis the county did when they decided to expand the schools, which will eliminate the need to redistrict. Also, the two schools are in different clusters. Westbrook goes to BCC, and Wood Acres goes to Whitman. People with kids buy houses with the schools in mind, so redistricting changes the investment people made in their houses and communities -- I don't think lines can be redrawn lightly for that additional reason.

[Anonymous]

I agree - it is an outrage that RPES is burdened by portables while CSES, across the street, is half-empty, and BFES, just around the corner, is also under-utilized. It is a disgrace to the students involved.

[Anonymous]

+1. Starr doesn't care about anything other than Churchill and Wootten.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You've got three HS clusters represented in your list, so that's a complicating factor. Ritchie goes to Richard Montgomery. Cold Spring goes to Wootton. I am willing to bet people bought houses based on the cluster assignment, and the house prices reflected the market perception of the school cluster. I'm wondering what the reason for Cold Spring's underenrollment. Did the building just go through a physical expansion? There may be facts that aren't reflected in the at-a-glance sheets.

For instance, Westbrook now shows that it is undercapacity by nearly 130, while nearby Wood Acres is over capacity by nearly 250. Looks crazy, right? But I think Westbrook just went through a facility expansion to get rid of portables, and Wood Acres is about to start one. So the building capacities will work out based on whatever analysis the county did when they decided to expand the schools, which will eliminate the need to redistrict. Also, the two schools are in different clusters. Westbrook goes to BCC, and Wood Acres goes to Whitman. People with kids buy houses with the schools in mind, so redistricting changes the investment people made in their houses and communities -- I don't think lines can be redrawn lightly for that additional reason.

I don't think house prices are a good reason, either. From what I understand a certain portion of Rockville got redistricted from Wootton to RM 20+ yrs ago. Back then, people may have also bought in that area thinking they were getting into the Wootton cluster. And if you look at real estate websites, you will see that some of the neighborhoods districted to RP are pretty expensive, more so than some Wootton areas.

[Anonymous]

As PP said, a lot has to do with construction timing. Westbrook had 7 portables LAST year (2nd, 3rd, and 4th grades were all outside), but just finished construction so now they have the room. Beverly Farms had portables, but just finished construction so they now have room. This is how it is all around the county- it just depends on when the construction has happened or is scheduled to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As PP said, a lot has to do with construction timing. Westbrook had 7 portables LAST year (2nd, 3rd, and 4th grades were all outside), but just finished construction so now they have the room. Beverly Farms had portables, but just finished construction so they now have room. This is how it is all around the county- it just depends on when the construction has happened or is scheduled to happen.

Are you cure about Beverly Farms and portables? The stats I saw before the new school was built showed they were under capacity and projected to be so for a long time (or only slightly over).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an off-shoot from the busing/open enrollment thread.

Someone on the other thread mentioned that Cold Spring was under capacity. So I looked at the enrollment figures on MCPS for a few schools around the CS ES to see what the capacities of those schools were. I was quite shocked.

example:
- Fallsmead: under capacity by 50
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02233.pdf

- Cold Spring: under capacity by about 120
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02238.pdf

- Ritchie Park: OVER capacity by about 160
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02227.pdf

- Beverly Farms: under capacity by 100
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02226.pdf

- Stone Mills: at about capacity (under by 10)
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02653.pdf

Just within a few miles you have 3 schools with a total under capacity level of about 270, and then one school over capacity by 160. How is this possible?

I generally agree that busing is not a good idea, but what about redistricting just to even out the capacity? That makes total sense to me. I don't understand why no one else is seeing this. Instead of adding more buildings in schools wouldn't it be cheaper to redistrict for the time being? Admittedly, I don't know all the nuances of redistricting, but this seems like a no brainer to me.

In addition, Wayside is slated to get a brand new school that is SMALLER than its current one because it's under enrolled an projected to be that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As PP said, a lot has to do with construction timing. Westbrook had 7 portables LAST year (2nd, 3rd, and 4th grades were all outside), but just finished construction so now they have the room. Beverly Farms had portables, but just finished construction so they now have room. This is how it is all around the county- it just depends on when the construction has happened or is scheduled to happen.

Are you cure about Beverly Farms and portables? The stats I saw before the new school was built showed they were under capacity and projected to be so for a long time (or only slightly over).

Sorry, that should be "are you sure..."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an off-shoot from the busing/open enrollment thread.

Someone on the other thread mentioned that Cold Spring was under capacity. So I looked at the enrollment figures on MCPS for a few schools around the CS ES to see what the capacities of those schools were. I was quite shocked.

example:
- Fallsmead: under capacity by 50
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02233.pdf

- Cold Spring: under capacity by about 120
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02238.pdf

- Ritchie Park: OVER capacity by about 160
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02227.pdf

- Beverly Farms: under capacity by 100
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02226.pdf

- Stone Mills: at about capacity (under by 10)
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/02653.pdf

Just within a few miles you have 3 schools with a total under capacity level of about 270, and then one school over capacity by 160. How is this possible?

I generally agree that busing is not a good idea, but what about redistricting just to even out the capacity? That makes total sense to me. I don't understand why no one else is seeing this. Instead of adding more buildings in schools wouldn't it be cheaper to redistrict for the time being? Admittedly, I don't know all the nuances of redistricting, but this seems like a no brainer to me.

I'm glad you posted this information. There are more schools that are under capacity throughout the county. Some are even slated to get new schools even though the need is greater elsewhere. A couple of years ago in The Washington Post, the head of the MCPS Division of Long-Range Planning said that dealing with overcrowded schools was like triage--taking care of the worst problems first. BULL. I'm truly shocked that no one is talking or writing about this is the press. Thank you for raising it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I'm glad you posted this information. There are more schools that are under capacity throughout the county. Some are even slated to get new schools even though the need is greater elsewhere. A couple of years ago in The Washington Post, the head of the MCPS Division of Long-Range Planning said that dealing with overcrowded schools was like triage--taking care of the worst problems first. BULL. I'm truly shocked that no one is talking or writing about this is the press. Thank you for raising it.

Somebody -- you? -- keeps saying this on DCUM. Could you provide an example of a school that should not be on the capital improvement plan schedule, or should be bumped down?

I ask because being over capacity is not the only problem a school building can have.

[Anonymous]

New renovation is only part of the equation. If you look at CS ES, it was built in 1966 and has never been renovated, according to that site. RP was renovated in 1997, so it probably won't be renovated for a while. In the meantime, CS ES will probably get renovated very soon. So, since RP won't get renovated anytime soon, why not redistrict some areas from RP to CS? And I am not talking about redistricting an entire ES to another HS cluster. I'm only talking about certain areas. If you look at the RP zone, it's a hodge podge of neighborhoods as far as the Fallsgrove area. Why not take that area, or some other area, and redistrict them to CS. How hard is it to send a letter to the families there and have the bus that goes there to just go down to CS instead of RP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1. Starr doesn't care about anything other than Churchill and Wootten.

This coming from someone who does not know how to spell the name of the school. It's Wootton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As PP said, a lot has to do with construction timing. Westbrook had 7 portables LAST year (2nd, 3rd, and 4th grades were all outside), but just finished construction so now they have the room. Beverly Farms had portables, but just finished construction so they now have room. This is how it is all around the county- it just depends on when the construction has happened or is scheduled to happen.

Are you cure about Beverly Farms and portables? The stats I saw before the new school was built showed they were under capacity and projected to be so for a long time (or only slightly over).

My kid has baseball there and there were definitely portables. Can't say I ever peeked in to make sure they were in use, but not sure why they would have them unless they were needed. A school might also appear to be under capacity by numbers, but that does not account for special programs that take up rooms. For example, Beverly Farms has the LAD program that requires classrooms for just the students in that program. Westbrook has the ED program that requires classrooms for that program. They also did not have a gym- something the county was trying to add to all schools. Obviously I am just looking up two schools, but trying to point out that the long range planners might be taking more things into consideration then just numbers. I am just not as ready to buy into the conspiracy theory that is all over this forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As PP said, a lot has to do with construction timing. Westbrook had 7 portables LAST year (2nd, 3rd, and 4th grades were all outside), but just finished construction so now they have the room. Beverly Farms had portables, but just finished construction so they now have room. This is how it is all around the county- it just depends on when the construction has happened or is scheduled to happen.

Are you cure about Beverly Farms and portables? The stats I saw before the new school was built showed they were under capacity and projected to be so for a long time (or only slightly over).

My kid has baseball there and there were definitely portables. Can't say I ever peeked in to make sure they were in use, but not sure why they would have them unless they were needed. A school might also appear to be under capacity by numbers, but that does not account for special programs that take up rooms. For example, Beverly Farms has the LAD program that requires classrooms for just the students in that program. Westbrook has the ED program that requires classrooms for that program. They also did not have a gym- something the county was trying to add to all schools. Obviously I am just looking up two schools, but trying to point out that the long range planners might be taking more things into consideration then just numbers. I am just not as ready to buy into the conspiracy theory that is all over this forum.

but for students that are in special programs, what is their home school? If they are in their home school, then the population data would already reflect those kids. The data is not about room size, but about enrollment size.