For those of you who plan to have home births...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps if we all paid a little more attention to our birthing experience, we'd have a lot less PPD?
Just simple common sense to me.
And I don't need some bunch of researchers to go prove it. Thanks.

"The Business of Birth"

I had PPD and it was not caused by the birth itself, although that part did not help.

What was it caused by, PP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It'd be a shame to have to report you, and disturb the administrators of this forum on a weekend, just because you don't like this discussion and are attempting to derail it. That behavior didn't go so well with the cookies last time.
Our administrators have families to care for, rather than having to address juvenile and irrelevant posts on this thread.

Who are you responding to?

Was addressing anyone trying to derail this thread. It's not a wise move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps if we all paid a little more attention to our birthing experience, we'd have a lot less PPD?
Just simple common sense to me.
And I don't need some bunch of researchers to go prove it. Thanks.

"The Business of Birth"

I don't think there is much correlation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know someone who had a homebirth. Dad missed when the midwife let him catch. Baby had permanent damage and cannot walk (child is now elementary school age). I will stick with the professionals who have lots of education and who are as a group much smarter.

I'm sorry - what does a freak accident have to do with this discussion? Do you think no doctor has ever dropped a newborn?

The mother greatly regrets her decision to have a home birth. And it wasn't a freak accident. It was someone who is a pseudo-medical personnel allowing a totally untrained person do something that should not have been allowed. Poor judgment.

No, that was a freak accident. Depending on what kind of certification the midwife had, she was in no way "pseudo-medical," and your denigration of the training and skills that midwives possess is just embarrassing. And again - even trained doctors occasionally drop babies. Vernix can be slippery as hell.

Are you really think midwives are comparable with MDs? That is embarrassing.

You do understand that a nurse midwife is trained in the natural physiological act of giving birth and caring for mother and baby. OBs are trained to intervene when something goes outside of the norm. THey are both highly trained and highly educated. Yes, they are comparable, but they have different roles. A midwife will have seen many more natural births than pretty much any MD and is much more knowledgeable about the process.

Their training, judgment and experience is not equal and one clearly can handle things that the other cannot. If you really want an intervention-free birth, why not a birthing center connected to a hospital or a midwife/doula at the hospitals with an ob standing by in case you end up in a bad situation that requires immediate interventions? Why is the location so important? This is what puzzles me about home birthers.

You just don't get it and you never will. the location IS important. Please read one of the myriad posts about postpartum moms who feel they were sunk into PPD by hospital procedures and rounding that kept them awake for 76+ hours with constant rounding and disruptions. Midwives at hospitals are often bound by hospital policies and end up more medical and intervention oriented than others. And the judgment and experience IS different. I'll go with a midwife for a low-risk pregnancy every time to keep my low-risks low risk. No thanks to unnecessary risks added by the medicalized environment with an OB at a hospital. I was with a GREAT OB the first time around, at least relatively speaking. Very low intervention. But, when push came to shove, despite promising me during pregnancy I could push in any position, he pressured me to flip over so he could "see better" and then I had a harder time pushing in that position. He then said an episiotomy would be necessary, so I pushed with all my might and sustained a nasty 3rd degree tear. Then the nurses rounded all night long and kept me awake, and when I wanted to leave the hospital early (after 18 hours, even though baby's pediatrician OK'd the discharge) a nurse on duty threatened me with CPS. That would not have happened with a midwife at home. Who cares if you agree? Just get out of my business, okay?

I agree that hospitals are supremely unpleasant. But I won't risk my baby's life for my own comfort. Midwife assisted birth with OBs standing by in a hospital is the way to go.

It's not JUST the hospital "discomfort." There are real risks at a hospital, including inappropriate treatment. There are risks everywhere. You don't get rid of risk by birthing in a hospital, nad in fact, you introduce risk there that you would not face at home. That's not to say that there is NO risk at home. Of course, there are risks everywhere as I said. Finally, though, please don't just dismiss the hospital experience as mere "discomfort." It's a bit more troubling than that, in my opinion. Being kept awake for 76 hours is cruel. I strongly felt like I was less able to bond with and care for my baby because I was being exhausted and moving into the point of almost hallucinating. I feel very lucky that I didn't descened into major PPD. I fear that, had I had no help at home, I might have, because lack of sleep is an absolute contributing factor to PPD. It's a major issue, hospital environment; it's not minor. And that's to say nothing of the fact that leaving home to go to a hospital is, of itself, disruptive to the labor process. So, I personally have looked at all of the studies, done a TON of thinking about it, and I genuinely believe that home birth is just as safe as, if not safer than, hospital birth for low-risk women with the appropriate, competent, and well-selected midwife, after having careful and thorough prenatal care. Now, I personally am having baby 2 in a hospital for a number of reasons, and I'm at peace with it (I'm lucky in that this area does have some wonderful hospital based nurse midwives). However, I realize that this is not the best option for everyone and I genuinely believe that in low risk cases, the home birth is just as safe or safer than an OB hospital birth. So just as you won't risk your baby's "life" for your comfort, neither will I. We are making different choices, but if I really believed I were risking baby's life for the sake of a good night's sleep after his / her birth, do you really think any sane, loving person would do that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Are you really think midwives are comparable with MDs? That is embarrassing.

Actually, for what it's worth, the AJOG study about 5-minute Apgar scores the OP refers to found that outcomes were better for midwife deliveries in hospitals than for MD deliveries in hospitals.

But the Apgar score isn't a scorecard as to who provided a better birth. It is simply designed to indicate which babies need additional assistance right at birth. And it certainly makes sense that midwife patients would get better scores. They don't treat known high risk patients. What people are missing is that in the event you are in the small group of women who go from a typical delivery to a risky delivery, an ob with sound judgment and experience is better. Maybe some women are willing to accept that risk and go with the midwife at home. I think that is crazy.

The OP put up a link to the AJOG study. The AJOG study compares 5-minute Apgar scores for hospital/MD births, hospital/midwife births, birth center/midwife births, and home birth/midwife births. The OP presumably concluded that the results of the study show that home births are more dangerous than hospital births.

If you don't think that 5-minute Apgar scores are a good outcome measure for births, that is certainly a valid criticism. (In fact, supporters of home births have said this very thing.) BUT THEN YOU CAN'T USE THIS STUDY TO SHOW THAT HOME BIRTHS ARE MORE DANGEROUS THAN HOSPITAL BIRTHS. (Capital letters for emphasis, not for shouting.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know someone who had a homebirth. Dad missed when the midwife let him catch. Baby had permanent damage and cannot walk (child is now elementary school age). I will stick with the professionals who have lots of education and who are as a group much smarter.

I'm sorry - what does a freak accident have to do with this discussion? Do you think no doctor has ever dropped a newborn?

The mother greatly regrets her decision to have a home birth. And it wasn't a freak accident. It was someone who is a pseudo-medical personnel allowing a totally untrained person do something that should not have been allowed. Poor judgment.

No, that was a freak accident. Depending on what kind of certification the midwife had, she was in no way "pseudo-medical," and your denigration of the training and skills that midwives possess is just embarrassing. And again - even trained doctors occasionally drop babies. Vernix can be slippery as hell.

Are you really think midwives are comparable with MDs? That is embarrassing.

You do understand that a nurse midwife is trained in the natural physiological act of giving birth and caring for mother and baby. OBs are trained to intervene when something goes outside of the norm. THey are both highly trained and highly educated. Yes, they are comparable, but they have different roles. A midwife will have seen many more natural births than pretty much any MD and is much more knowledgeable about the process.

Their training, judgment and experience is not equal and one clearly can handle things that the other cannot. If you really want an intervention-free birth, why not a birthing center connected to a hospital or a midwife/doula at the hospitals with an ob standing by in case you end up in a bad situation that requires immediate interventions? Why is the location so important? This is what puzzles me about home birthers.

You just don't get it and you never will. the location IS important. Please read one of the myriad posts about postpartum moms who feel they were sunk into PPD by hospital procedures and rounding that kept them awake for 76+ hours with constant rounding and disruptions. Midwives at hospitals are often bound by hospital policies and end up more medical and intervention oriented than others. And the judgment and experience IS different. I'll go with a midwife for a low-risk pregnancy every time to keep my low-risks low risk. No thanks to unnecessary risks added by the medicalized environment with an OB at a hospital. I was with a GREAT OB the first time around, at least relatively speaking. Very low intervention. But, when push came to shove, despite promising me during pregnancy I could push in any position, he pressured me to flip over so he could "see better" and then I had a harder time pushing in that position. He then said an episiotomy would be necessary, so I pushed with all my might and sustained a nasty 3rd degree tear. Then the nurses rounded all night long and kept me awake, and when I wanted to leave the hospital early (after 18 hours, even though baby's pediatrician OK'd the discharge) a nurse on duty threatened me with CPS. That would not have happened with a midwife at home. Who cares if you agree? Just get out of my business, okay?

I don't really care. Do what you want. Not my baby, not my choice. I just think it is crazy.

Not PP, but fine, I think YOU are crazy for failing to understand why for some women a home birth is not only the right choice but the BEST choice for THEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know someone who had a homebirth. Dad missed when the midwife let him catch. Baby had permanent damage and cannot walk (child is now elementary school age). I will stick with the professionals who have lots of education and who are as a group much smarter.

I'm sorry - what does a freak accident have to do with this discussion? Do you think no doctor has ever dropped a newborn?

The mother greatly regrets her decision to have a home birth. And it wasn't a freak accident. It was someone who is a pseudo-medical personnel allowing a totally untrained person do something that should not have been allowed. Poor judgment.

No, that was a freak accident. Depending on what kind of certification the midwife had, she was in no way "pseudo-medical," and your denigration of the training and skills that midwives possess is just embarrassing. And again - even trained doctors occasionally drop babies. Vernix can be slippery as hell.

Are you really think midwives are comparable with MDs? That is embarrassing.

You do understand that a nurse midwife is trained in the natural physiological act of giving birth and caring for mother and baby. OBs are trained to intervene when something goes outside of the norm. THey are both highly trained and highly educated. Yes, they are comparable, but they have different roles. A midwife will have seen many more natural births than pretty much any MD and is much more knowledgeable about the process.

Their training, judgment and experience is not equal and one clearly can handle things that the other cannot. If you really want an intervention-free birth, why not a birthing center connected to a hospital or a midwife/doula at the hospitals with an ob standing by in case you end up in a bad situation that requires immediate interventions? Why is the location so important? This is what puzzles me about home birthers.

You just don't get it and you never will. the location IS important. Please read one of the myriad posts about postpartum moms who feel they were sunk into PPD by hospital procedures and rounding that kept them awake for 76+ hours with constant rounding and disruptions. Midwives at hospitals are often bound by hospital policies and end up more medical and intervention oriented than others. And the judgment and experience IS different. I'll go with a midwife for a low-risk pregnancy every time to keep my low-risks low risk. No thanks to unnecessary risks added by the medicalized environment with an OB at a hospital. I was with a GREAT OB the first time around, at least relatively speaking. Very low intervention. But, when push came to shove, despite promising me during pregnancy I could push in any position, he pressured me to flip over so he could "see better" and then I had a harder time pushing in that position. He then said an episiotomy would be necessary, so I pushed with all my might and sustained a nasty 3rd degree tear. Then the nurses rounded all night long and kept me awake, and when I wanted to leave the hospital early (after 18 hours, even though baby's pediatrician OK'd the discharge) a nurse on duty threatened me with CPS. That would not have happened with a midwife at home. Who cares if you agree? Just get out of my business, okay?

I agree that hospitals are supremely unpleasant. But I won't risk my baby's life for my own comfort. Midwife assisted birth with OBs standing by in a hospital is the way to go.

That's exactly what I had when I gave birth at home (twice).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know someone who had a homebirth. Dad missed when the midwife let him catch. Baby had permanent damage and cannot walk (child is now elementary school age). I will stick with the professionals who have lots of education and who are as a group much smarter.

I'm sorry - what does a freak accident have to do with this discussion? Do you think no doctor has ever dropped a newborn?

The mother greatly regrets her decision to have a home birth. And it wasn't a freak accident. It was someone who is a pseudo-medical personnel allowing a totally untrained person do something that should not have been allowed. Poor judgment.

No, that was a freak accident. Depending on what kind of certification the midwife had, she was in no way "pseudo-medical," and your denigration of the training and skills that midwives possess is just embarrassing. And again - even trained doctors occasionally drop babies. Vernix can be slippery as hell.

Are you really think midwives are comparable with MDs? That is embarrassing.

You do understand that a nurse midwife is trained in the natural physiological act of giving birth and caring for mother and baby. OBs are trained to intervene when something goes outside of the norm. THey are both highly trained and highly educated. Yes, they are comparable, but they have different roles. A midwife will have seen many more natural births than pretty much any MD and is much more knowledgeable about the process.

Their training, judgment and experience is not equal and one clearly can handle things that the other cannot. If you really want an intervention-free birth, why not a birthing center connected to a hospital or a midwife/doula at the hospitals with an ob standing by in case you end up in a bad situation that requires immediate interventions? Why is the location so important? This is what puzzles me about home birthers.

You just don't get it and you never will. the location IS important. Please read one of the myriad posts about postpartum moms who feel they were sunk into PPD by hospital procedures and rounding that kept them awake for 76+ hours with constant rounding and disruptions. Midwives at hospitals are often bound by hospital policies and end up more medical and intervention oriented than others. And the judgment and experience IS different. I'll go with a midwife for a low-risk pregnancy every time to keep my low-risks low risk. No thanks to unnecessary risks added by the medicalized environment with an OB at a hospital. I was with a GREAT OB the first time around, at least relatively speaking. Very low intervention. But, when push came to shove, despite promising me during pregnancy I could push in any position, he pressured me to flip over so he could "see better" and then I had a harder time pushing in that position. He then said an episiotomy would be necessary, so I pushed with all my might and sustained a nasty 3rd degree tear. Then the nurses rounded all night long and kept me awake, and when I wanted to leave the hospital early (after 18 hours, even though baby's pediatrician OK'd the discharge) a nurse on duty threatened me with CPS. That would not have happened with a midwife at home. Who cares if you agree? Just get out of my business, okay?

I don't really care. Do what you want. Not my baby, not my choice. I just think it is crazy.

As someone who "doesn't care," how many times did you post on this thread???

Not sure. Maybe 5? But really, I don't care. Your decision, your consequences. Doesn't really affect me at all. If you feel good about your choices, great. But I am allowed to have an opinion. And my opinion is that people who participate in home births care more about the experience than they should. There are many other ways to have a low intervention birth. No need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Again, not PP but I don't care either. It's your decision and your consequences if you give birth in hospital. Doesn't really affect me at all. If you feel good about your choices, great. But I am allowed to have an opinion. And my opinion is that people who blithely dismiss homebirths as a reasonable option for low risk women or as inherently unsafe or risky are uneducated about childbirth and ill informed.

For the record, it's not about the "experience", it's about being comfortable and being in control and having competent medical providers alongside you that you have trust in AND about avoiding the many risks inherent in many common hospital procedures. There is no-one more qualified to give me advice about maternity care or labor and delivery than my midwives. I trust them with every inch of my being and I have NEVER met a doctor that I feel even close to that. Not only do they make appropriate decisions but they make them based on science and not just protocol and they always explain the latest research to me. What OB can you say does that? (I'm sure they exist but I've certainly never come across one.)

I've said this before, if I had given birth in a hospital my birth would have become much more risky. This is certain. I would not have been allowed to have my labor managed expectantly - EVEN THOUGH research says that's the best approach. My body would also not respond well to the stress of being in hospital. And with my second child, I would CERTAINLY have been pushed toward interventions because of his size. And yet, I easily gave birth vaginally to a child the size of the average 3 month old - (my midwife knew my body and that I was capable of delivering that baby). I was not willing to take the risk of being in hospital.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps if we all paid a little more attention to our birthing experience, we'd have a lot less PPD?
Just simple common sense to me.
And I don't need some bunch of researchers to go prove it. Thanks.

"The Business of Birth"

I don't think there is much correlation.

Birth trauma is a known risk factor for PTSD.

[Anonymous]

Friend of mine had two 10 lb babies at home. No way most OB's would have "allowed" that at a hospital. And had she not been able to move around and get in the best position, her labor would have surely stalled. Here's an example of where it was best to labor at home. Had her labor truly stalled, her midwives have competent hospital backup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps if we all paid a little more attention to our birthing experience, we'd have a lot less PPD?
Just simple common sense to me.
And I don't need some bunch of researchers to go prove it. Thanks.

"The Business of Birth"

I don't think there is much correlation.

Birth trauma is a known risk factor for PTSD.

Sure. But you can have trauma anywhere. I would be highly traumatized if I had to give birth at home without an ob.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Friend of mine had two 10 lb babies at home. No way most OB's would have "allowed" that at a hospital. And had she not been able to move around and get in the best position, her labor would have surely stalled. Here's an example of where it was best to labor at home. Had her labor truly stalled, her midwives have competent hospital backup.

My sister had 2 10lb babies in the hospital. Your point is ... ?

[Anonymous]

This thread has been going on for what feels like forever. No one has convinced anyone that their perspective, experiences or the research they cite is more valid than the other side's perspective, experiences or research.

Have any women planning their first home birth even commented on this thread? Or is this still just a bunch of women (myself included) talking about things that happened (either to us or to women we know) in the past and using those experiences to extrapolate how we WOULD feel IF we were planning a home birth?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friend of mine had two 10 lb babies at home. No way most OB's would have "allowed" that at a hospital. And had she not been able to move around and get in the best position, her labor would have surely stalled. Here's an example of where it was best to labor at home. Had her labor truly stalled, her midwives have competent hospital backup.

My sister had 2 10lb babies in the hospital. Your point is ... ?

Not much of one. Pp just like to offer conjecture and speculation as to why hospitals are so bad and giving birth at home 1800s style is best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friend of mine had two 10 lb babies at home. No way most OB's would have "allowed" that at a hospital. And had she not been able to move around and get in the best position, her labor would have surely stalled. Here's an example of where it was best to labor at home. Had her labor truly stalled, her midwives have competent hospital backup.

My sister had 2 10lb babies in the hospital. Your point is ... ?

Not much of one. Pp just like to offer conjecture and speculation as to why hospitals are so bad and giving birth at home 1800s style is best.

Oh, just stop. Seriously. People give have their babies at home in the US are, overwhelmingly, not having "1800s style" births at all. If you truly believe that, you clearly know nothing about what actually happens at a home birth. If you don't truly believe that and just wanted to be nasty, why? Does it make you feel good?