Is "the system" designed to keep us poors in our place"

[Anonymous]

Yes it is. The worst is if you have one great year and then are unemployed or business goes south. The government takes 50% of your income.

State, fed , social security, Medicare , real estate , property, rain, sales , cell phone, cable , taxes.

To the very wealthy who are liberal it is meant to keep you out of their circles. To liberal politicians it is meant to keep you from getting any ideas you can be self sufficient.

The power to tax is the power to destroy. Any republican who votes for a tax increase should be shown the door. Tax cuts are really where the GOP power lies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our HHI is between 225-230k from our day jobs. I made $200k last year on the house flip - that was a really good one. The time before it was about 70k. I made about 25 k in the consulting business this past year.

(I thought we were "the poors" here on DCUM bc we don't have millions of dollars...)

No, it just sounds like you are not investing properly. How much do you have in securities? You are making income, but not growing your assets.

I have 145 in retirement accounts. After we sell this flip (God willing) maybe 500k in cash. 3 rental properties but all mortgaged with maybe 20 percent equity and 20 more years to go before the notes are paid.

If you are flipping a house, then using the profit to buy another house to flip, you are doing this wrong because in the end all you are doing is moving money around. Hat you want to do is invest that profit and then use those securities as collateral to for a loan that you use to buy he next house to flip. You will never become wealthy if you are leveraging all your assets to the max to make your next deal.

If you want to become wealthy, you need to build up your assets. What you are doing is making money not making wealth. Our HHI is th same as yours, and we don't have the second jobs or house flipping income you do, but we have 95% equity in our home and considerably more money in equities than you do. We also carry so little debt that we could pay everything off, including the house, in a month if needed.

We reinvest almost all dividends and gains from sales to get our portfolio to grow. We also pay someone to manage our investments, the value they add is much greater than the cost. Keep in mind that capital gains is taxed at a lower rate than income. That is on reason why Mitt Romney pays so little in taxes compared to his wealth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our HHI is between 225-230k from our day jobs. I made $200k last year on the house flip - that was a really good one. The time before it was about 70k. I made about 25 k in the consulting business this past year.

(I thought we were "the poors" here on DCUM bc we don't have millions of dollars...)

No, it just sounds like you are not investing properly. How much do you have in securities? You are making income, but not growing your assets.

I have 145 in retirement accounts. After we sell this flip (God willing) maybe 500k in cash. 3 rental properties but all mortgaged with maybe 20 percent equity and 20 more years to go before the notes are paid.

If you are flipping a house, then using the profit to buy another house to flip, you are doing this wrong because in the end all you are doing is moving money around. Hat you want to do is invest that profit and then use those securities as collateral to for a loan that you use to buy he next house to flip. You will never become wealthy if you are leveraging all your assets to the max to make your next deal.

If you want to become wealthy, you need to build up your assets. What you are doing is making money not making wealth. Our HHI is th same as yours, and we don't have the second jobs or house flipping income you do, but we have 95% equity in our home and considerably more money in equities than you do. We also carry so little debt that we could pay everything off, including the house, in a month if needed.

We reinvest almost all dividends and gains from sales to get our portfolio to grow. We also pay someone to manage our investments, the value they add is much greater than the cost. Keep in mind that capital gains is taxed at a lower rate than income. That is on reason why Mitt Romney pays so little in taxes compared to his wealth.

Thank you- I know how to make profit from RE flipping but very ignorant about how to keep the profit in my pocket. I do hold the property for over a year so it is taxed as long term capital gains but that tax rate just increased in the last year or two, which has contributed to my "the system is stacked" conspiracy theory. Would you suggest I take the profit and pay off one of the rental properties and borrow againt it for the next flip? If not, would you mind providing an example of a security I could purchase and borrow against?

[Anonymous]

I think another issue is that the tax system is set up to benefit breadwinner + SAHM. Two income households are taxed higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you really want to talk about how the system keeps the poors in their place (which you are not);

The poors make less, which means they save less, which means they can't afford hiccups in bills, which means they have worse credit, which means everything they do costs more - auto loans, credit cards, home loans, etc. Because they work lower paying jobs, they don't have insurance or they are often paid hourly, so if they take time off when sick they have to pay more out of pocket and lose income. Because they make less they have to work more hours which leaves less free time for other things like pursuing an education, which if they could do, would cost more because of their credit. And because they make less, they live further out which means they have to commute more, which means their car costs are higher and their time strained further. Their cell phone needs a deposit. Hell, even their cable tv sometimes needs a deposit. Money locked up not producing for them.

Compare that to the non poor. First you get a job with a salary and benefits. Then you get vacation. Then you get a free cell phone, or a company car, or an expense account. Your credit card rates go down. Your home loan rates are lower. Hell, your life insurance rates are lower. Your brokerage firm will lend you money at 2% on margin if you need it. Cash flow frees up - you can invest, take advantage of an hsa or FSA or employee stock plan. This throws off more cash, which you can use to build more income generating assets. The relative tax burden goes way down as your income comes more and more from long term capital gains. Your neighborhood is better so your home insurance costs less on the margin.

The list goes on and on and on.

Yes, the deck is stacked.

Thank you for a breath of sane air. The ignorance here is astonishing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you really want to talk about how the system keeps the poors in their place (which you are not);

The poors make less, which means they save less, which means they can't afford hiccups in bills, which means they have worse credit, which means everything they do costs more - auto loans, credit cards, home loans, etc. Because they work lower paying jobs, they don't have insurance or they are often paid hourly, so if they take time off when sick they have to pay more out of pocket and lose income. Because they make less they have to work more hours which leaves less free time for other things like pursuing an education, which if they could do, would cost more because of their credit. And because they make less, they live further out which means they have to commute more, which means their car costs are higher and their time strained further. Their cell phone needs a deposit. Hell, even their cable tv sometimes needs a deposit. Money locked up not producing for them.

Compare that to the non poor. First you get a job with a salary and benefits. Then you get vacation. Then you get a free cell phone, or a company car, or an expense account. Your credit card rates go down. Your home loan rates are lower. Hell, your life insurance rates are lower. Your brokerage firm will lend you money at 2% on margin if you need it. Cash flow frees up - you can invest, take advantage of an hsa or FSA or employee stock plan. This throws off more cash, which you can use to build more income generating assets. The relative tax burden goes way down as your income comes more and more from long term capital gains. Your neighborhood is better so your home insurance costs less on the margin.

The list goes on and on and on.

Yes, the deck is stacked.

Bless you. OP, you sound like you are very ungrateful for the advantages you have. We are somewhat above you in HHI, and while I sometimes blanch at the estimated tax payment checks I write, I would never think that I am being screwed compared to those less fortunate. Maybe you should rehab houses in poorer neighborhoods and get a sense of what those neighbors are facing.
Thank you for a breath of sane air. The ignorance here is astonishing.

[Anonymous]

I hate assholes like OP. Let me guess, you are too busy and "poor" to help the real people who are struggling. Absolutely disgusting. OP, you should be ashamed of yourself. Remember, things have a way of coming back to bite you in the butt when you're an asshole.

[Anonymous]

Yes, I think the system is designed to keep people down somewhat. It is still very difficult to become "rich"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The list goes on and on and on.

Yes, the deck is stacked.

Those same opportunities you listed out are available to everyone. The US has free primary and secondary schools, and there are affordable undergraduate programs that will provide you with a solid education in a field with good earning potential. Google's owner Sergey Brin graduated from a high school in PG county and got his undergrad from University of Maryland; those that apply themselves will succeed. Our system rewards people who make good life decisions, plain and simple, as it should. If someone decides to not put in the effort to gain a solid education, and ends up sucking at life, that's not anyone else's fault.

[Anonymous]

The system is liberal. It is designed to spread the wealth but in reality, it spreads the misery and wealth declines. The more liberal we get the poorer most people get. That's why we used to be a bigger economy than China but we are falling behind.

We need to cut the government, cut taxes and reduce regulation so we can draw industry and producers .

[Anonymous]

I wonder if English is a second language for OP. I've never ever heard an English speaker refer to "poors". Ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I think the system is designed to keep people down somewhat. It is still very difficult to become "rich"

How the heck do you figure that? If that's how you feel, fine, but present some reasoning behind that position.

As someone who grew his net wroth through discipline and hard work, the most frustrating thing I've encountered in the past 10 years has been the incredible amount of taxes I've paid. But even there, I've accepted that *someone* has to shoulder the cost of the advantages afforded to the citizens of the US by our system of law and government.

I will say, however, that there is somewhat of a divide between the ultra rich - those who have hundreds of millions or billions of networth, to those who merely have a few million or tens of millions. To get to the hundred of millions or billions, you either inherit it through lottery by birth, or have to be truly special and none of this merely-great top 1% crap. You have to have the drive, plus be surrounded by other capable people who can help you implement. You also need some luck, timing, and possibly favorable political support. Look at Lyft and Uber: I don't like either business but they kind of exemplifies the "stop at nothing" sense of need to push forward. Another example of a newly-minted billion dollar company is Tesla automobiles. You don't get to this level of wealth by just being a successful small business owner, or even a medium sized business owner, you have to change the world, or some significant portion of it.

So yes, it is very difficult to become ultra rich. But you can be quite successful through discipline and hard work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if English is a second language for OP. I've never ever heard an English speaker refer to "poors". Ridiculous.

Oh come on people. "The poors" is a DCUM somewhat tongue in cheek term (see thread "is cruising for the poors". I am not trying to start a debate on the working poor and in fact fully concur with the earlier poster who talks about why the poor are poor. The purpose of this post is to solicit feedback on my financial situation which is as follows: I was born to a middle class working family with few assets but decent income. My DH and I have regular jobs with good income but we are a paycheck/employee family and I want us to get out of that and really grow wealth so we can better control our lives. To this end, I started two entrepreneurial endeavors which yield good profit in some years. However I find that I am not really building much wealth, and in part this is due to my own ignorance on how to grow wealth and also our spending habits. However, I now work 80 percent harder. But after taxes I feel like there is significantly less to show for it. Some examples include the new higher long term capital gains rate, the pheading out of many deductions for our income level, and the higher marginal tax rates after a certain point. So I just wanted to see the thoughts of others...whether "the system" is set up to keep people from moving up. You don't need to hate on me or call me ungrateful because I want to be wealthy...in fact, I think this is part of "the system" that keeps people in their financial place. There is a glorification of the hardworking middle class in America and this is what Americans are taught to aspire to. I believe those hardworking American are the backbone of a corporate structure that makes their bosses incredibly wealthy but keeps them as (truly) poor.

[Anonymous]

I'm one of those people whose experience proves that this country provides amazing opportunities to those willing to work for them. I came here alone at 17 with $300 in my pocket to go to college. With zero help from my family, I paid my own way through college by working and getting scholarships, then took federally-subsidized loans to go to law school. Ten years later, I paid off my student loans, accumulated net worth of close to 1/2 mil., and own two properties. Throughout my life here, I have consistently encountered people who were courteous, gracious, and who appreciated my abilities and went out of their way to help me. I can't imagine any other country where I would have the opportunity to accomplish what I did.

[Anonymous]

Yes it is. The worst is if you have one great year and then are unemployed or business goes south. The government takes 50% of your income.

State, fed , social security, Medicare , real estate , property, rain, sales , cell phone, cable , taxes.

To the very wealthy who are liberal it is meant to keep you out of their circles. To liberal politicians it is meant to keep you from getting any ideas you can be self sufficient.

The power to tax is the power to destroy. Any republican who votes for a tax increase should be shown the door. Tax cuts are really where the GOP power lies.

No the real rich are able to convent income into cap gains and pay a lot less % wiser of the income in taxes. The problem is if you get a w2 you are screwed. The republicans are not, even in their wildest proposals, talking about meaningful reductions for the wage earns.