Listening to Nathan Saunders makes me crazy

[Anonymous]

Let's see.

I got marked down because a middle school student in the very last row of class (where the ME was in position to see, where I was not) had her phone in her lap for a few moments during a class discussion where 90% of students were engaged.

My ED (argumentative disorder) student berated another student (MEs don't have prior knowledge of of IEPs, SpED, or ED students)

Apparently my objective for PS was not rigorous enough (even though it was a PreK objective/lesson). There are no DCPS PS standards or curriculum.

My colleague got marked down for not noticing that a child had nicely pushed in her chair when leaving class AND not separating her PS students into groups that used glue sticks or liquid glue for an art project. Forget that students completed the lesson objective, made amazing artwork, were all engaged and experimenting with liquid glue.

Impact is subjective tool for evaluating. And if you have been unfairly evaluated there is really no recourse. Besides you will most likely have the same ME observing you next year.

[Anonymous]

Parent here on IMPACT. There were a pack of three students that were working about 3 grade levels above "curriculum" in math. The principal had tutors come in to work with these children 2X a week. The kids loved it. The tutors had a blast. It was a win-win.

Teacher resented these tutors and would pull the children back to class, or make them miss recess so they wouldn't miss the lesson she was delivering. (Nevermind that the child had long passed the lesson she was teaching.)

When asked about this behavior, she replied, "My job is to teach the standards of the grade. " When questioned, "but what if these children have already mastered the standards of the grade?"

She replied, "My job is to teach the standards of the grade."

This teacher received high IMPACT ratings.

FWIW, the principal, who provided the tutoring for the advanced kids has left DCPS.

We're gone too. And we're taking our "advanced" DC-CAS scores with us.

Longtime, but soon to be gone DCPS parent, who has no love for IMPACT.

[Anonymous]

Impact is subjective tool for evaluating. And if you have been unfairly evaluated there is really no recourse. Besides you will most likely have the same ME observing you next year.

1905: This kind of random stuff happens all the time in the private sector. I would not wish random, asshole boss on anyone, but it is a hazard of working with human beings. I find it kind awful that as a parent I have hope that I my kid is not going to get the teacher everyone knows has quit on the job or even worse never had the skills. Here is my problem, teachers have just objected to being evaluated, not proposed an effective way of helping keep the system excellent. They can't protect each other and kids at the same time they have decide what they are going to do for professional credibility.

[Anonymous]

19:17 would you kid have been better in a pre-IMPACT world? It appears to me that the issue is how poorly DC generally deals with advanced kids generally. It also appears to me that this principle need to be more assertive, what was the point of her getting the tutor and then not backing it up in the classroom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a DCPS teacher, not AA, and happy that DC teachers finally have a real advocate heading WTU. He is not a buffoon. He is crazy like a fox. IMPACT is not a fair instrument for evaluating teachers. I believe DCPS will lose more of the teachers that you want for your children because of its intrinsic lack of fairness. All teachers are at risk of being labeled ineffective or minimally effective if they work for principals that use IMPACT to fire teachers they don't like.

Can you give a specific example of how IMPACT is unfair? I know an earlier post (I think it was this thread) mentioned a teacher being negatively viewed because of a child eating in class, which IMO has nothing to do with teacher effectiveness. What else was the kid doing? Was he paying attention, engaged, responsive but having a snack? Would it be better for him to be empty mouthed and half asleep? I just don't really understand how the tool works. Since you teach for the district, how specifically does it differ from past evaluation methods? Are the questions more specific? Does it require different or more documentation to prove proficiency? Give us the scoop!

I just gave you a specific example of how IMPACT is unfair. Principals can use it to get rid of teachers who are perfectly good teachers. Instead of helping a teacher find a principal that is a better fit, you give the teacher an ineffective rating, and they get fired from the system. The problem is that IMPACT is so punitive and the consequences of a low rating are cast in stone. Good teachers can be thrown out of DCPS because of a spiteful, under-educated principal.

There are so many inequities -- it would take a book.

The fact that test scores represent 50% of a Group 1 teacher's final score using this really insane IVA calculation. Why is it fair to do this to 20% of teachers? And since when is a number like 20 an adequate sample for a statistically valid indicator? You have one kid barf on their test, another recently separated from his parents by CPS, and a third who commits test nullification. How could these metrics be valid or reliable indicators of a teacher's effectiveness?

Some principals use IMPACT like club to intimidate and bully teachers. It's a very effective weapon. In our building, most of the faculty, the good, the bad alike, were demoralized. Much of the joy we shared with our students is gone. This isn't promoting higher achievement, love of learning or any of the experiences I would want for my child.

It just makes me want to teach in a different school district. If that's your objective, you will probably get it. Will this result in a stronger school system? I doubt it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had the same response as the OP. The guy just infuriates me. For one, of course IMPACT has a disparate impact on African-American female teachers, they are the ones who predominantly teach in schools. What is the point? That's not discriminatory. If he wants to make the case that some of you are, that is fine, but that's not what he is doing. He is calling it racist because it biases AA women.

In JKLM schools, this is not an accurate statement at all. At Janney, for instance, there are exactly 3 full time teachers who are AA. Don't know the stats, exactly at KLM, but most of the teachers in the upper grades are white. Just saying--and I am white and female... It seems rather absurd to be offended by being placed in a protected class just because you personally don't feel the discrimination--you are not unlike the house slave crowing about how "good" things are when taking to the field slaves. If you are a white teacher, you have no idea how the winds of change could sweep you out at anytime. You sound very naive...and arrogant. I hate the WTU, but of course, I understand that their mandate is to get the most for their constituents with little or no regard for the students. They could use a good PR firm, btw, jeez.

Wow. You hate the WTU. I guess you hate me. And I am a caucasian, well-educated, insanely dedicated DCPS teacher. I might have taught your children. I'm a proud WTU member and building representative. So go ahead and hate me. You seem like a person who is full of hate.

Yes, because I hate WTU, ergo I am full of hate. No,because I see the fallout of a very greedy and abusive union on kids' lives--I hate this particular union. Don't take it personally, I don't hate you, I don't even know you. And you obviously, don't know me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had the same response as the OP. The guy just infuriates me. For one, of course IMPACT has a disparate impact on African-American female teachers, they are the ones who predominantly teach in schools. What is the point? That's not discriminatory. If he wants to make the case that some of you are, that is fine, but that's not what he is doing. He is calling it racist because it biases AA women.

In JKLM schools, this is not an accurate statement at all. At Janney, for instance, there are exactly 3 full time teachers who are AA. Don't know the stats, exactly at KLM, but most of the teachers in the upper grades are white. Just saying--and I am white and female... It seems rather absurd to be offended by being placed in a protected class just because you personally don't feel the discrimination--you are not unlike the house slave crowing about how "good" things are when taking to the field slaves. If you are a white teacher, you have no idea how the winds of change could sweep you out at anytime. You sound very naive...and arrogant. I hate the WTU, but of course, I understand that their mandate is to get the most for their constituents with little or no regard for the students. They could use a good PR firm, btw, jeez.

Wow. You hate the WTU. I guess you hate me. And I am a caucasian, well-educated, insanely dedicated DCPS teacher. I might have taught your children. I'm a proud WTU member and building representative. So go ahead and hate me. You seem like a person who is full of hate.

Yes, because I hate WTU, ergo I am full of hate. No,because I see the fallout of a very greedy and abusive union on kids' lives--I hate this particular union. Don't take it personally, I don't hate you, I don't even know you. And you obviously, don't know me.

If you hate WTU, then you hate me. And of course you don't know me. That's why this hating is so irrational. There's nothing greedy or abusive about a union that endeavors to obtain due process for its members.

[Anonymous]

If you hate WTU, then you hate me. And of course you don't know me. That's why this hating is so irrational. There's nothing greedy or abusive about a union that endeavors to obtain due process for its members.

There is if you think it results in teachers that fail your kids. You PP may be a good teacher, but too many are not competent and our kids are paying or we are to flee the system. What I think a lot of WTU folks forget is that DC parents are find options out of the system. Soon you really will have the parents that don't care with the attendant problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had the same response as the OP. The guy just infuriates me. For one, of course IMPACT has a disparate impact on African-American female teachers, they are the ones who predominantly teach in schools. What is the point? That's not discriminatory. If he wants to make the case that some of you are, that is fine, but that's not what he is doing. He is calling it racist because it biases AA women.

In JKLM schools, this is not an accurate statement at all. At Janney, for instance, there are exactly 3 full time teachers who are AA. Don't know the stats, exactly at KLM, but most of the teachers in the upper grades are white. Just saying--and I am white and female... It seems rather absurd to be offended by being placed in a protected class just because you personally don't feel the discrimination--you are not unlike the house slave crowing about how "good" things are when taking to the field slaves. If you are a white teacher, you have no idea how the winds of change could sweep you out at anytime. You sound very naive...and arrogant. I hate the WTU, but of course, I understand that their mandate is to get the most for their constituents with little or no regard for the students. They could use a good PR firm, btw, jeez.

Wow. You hate the WTU. I guess you hate me. And I am a caucasian, well-educated, insanely dedicated DCPS teacher. I might have taught your children. I'm a proud WTU member and building representative. So go ahead and hate me. You seem like a person who is full of hate.

People on this site are constantly bashing lawyers. Do you think the lawyers give a damn? No, not really. It's a calling, like teaching. I'm glad you are "insanely" dedicated to your job. Many people in this area are. If you teach in DC you are well compensated by the city and appreciated by me. Your union however is reviled. I said WTU has a PR problem and sounds like you are part of it. You won't win over anyone by braying about how "insanely" dedicated you are to teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had the same response as the OP. The guy just infuriates me. For one, of course IMPACT has a disparate impact on African-American female teachers, they are the ones who predominantly teach in schools. What is the point? That's not discriminatory. If he wants to make the case that some of you are, that is fine, but that's not what he is doing. He is calling it racist because it biases AA women.

In JKLM schools, this is not an accurate statement at all. At Janney, for instance, there are exactly 3 full time teachers who are AA. Don't know the stats, exactly at KLM, but most of the teachers in the upper grades are white. Just saying--and I am white and female... It seems rather absurd to be offended by being placed in a protected class just because you personally don't feel the discrimination--you are not unlike the house slave crowing about how "good" things are when taking to the field slaves. If you are a white teacher, you have no idea how the winds of change could sweep you out at anytime. You sound very naive...and arrogant. I hate the WTU, but of course, I understand that their mandate is to get the most for their constituents with little or no regard for the students. They could use a good PR firm, btw, jeez.

Wow. You hate the WTU. I guess you hate me. And I am a caucasian, well-educated, insanely dedicated DCPS teacher. I might have taught your children. I'm a proud WTU member and building representative. So go ahead and hate me. You seem like a person who is full of hate.

People on this site are constantly bashing lawyers. Do you think the lawyers give a damn? No, not really. It's a calling, like teaching. I'm glad you are "insanely" dedicated to your job. Many people in this area are. If you teach in DC you are well compensated by the city and appreciated by me. Your union however is reviled. I said WTU has a PR problem and sounds like you are part of it. You won't win over anyone by braying about how "insanely" dedicated you are to teaching.

Thank you for your appreciation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you hate WTU, then you hate me. And of course you don't know me. That's why this hating is so irrational. There's nothing greedy or abusive about a union that endeavors to obtain due process for its members.

There is if you think it results in teachers that fail your kids. You PP may be a good teacher, but too many are not competent and our kids are paying or we are to flee the system. What I think a lot of WTU folks forget is that DC parents are find options out of the system. Soon you really will have the parents that don't care with the attendant problems.

Sadly, I think that is what the dead wood wants--parents that don't care and aren't involved in their kids education. That way they can fly below the radar. Bullet proof union and disengaged parents. Not good for education sector, imo.. I am pro-union in general (for purposes of health and safety) but there has to be a balance of interests. Parents have to put feet to the fire to push back against buffoonery and greed. Just as teachers have to be given the space to do their jobs effectively and safely.

[Anonymous]

19:05 did the the items you note in your evaluation ultimately result in you you receiving a poor evaluation? I know I have had random things on my evaluation such as keep a neater desk, but that did not stop me from getting the full raise. The question I have re IMPACT is can anyone point to real evaluations that had petty issues that resulted in a needs improvement or unqualified ranking? Or did it just prove a person average?

[Anonymous]

20:22, Yes, my kid WAS better pre-IMPACT because there was a principal who understood that GT kids should not be ignored, even if their growth wasn't measured on a DC-CAS test.

Things are worse now for all the gifted kids in the building because the principal is gone, the tutors are gone and all that is left is the DC-CAS and IMPACT.

IMPACT stinks and so does Rhee/Henderson/Kamras. But hey, I'm just a parent of a smart kid who got crapped on by these people, so what would I know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:19:05 did the the items you note in your evaluation ultimately result in you you receiving a poor evaluation? I know I have had random things on my evaluation such as keep a neater desk, but that did not stop me from getting the full raise. The question I have re IMPACT is can anyone point to real evaluations that had petty issues that resulted in a needs improvement or unqualified ranking? Or did it just prove a person average?

There is no "needs improvement" ranking. The ratings are highly effective, effective, minimally effective, and ineffective. Teachers with an ineffective rating can be fired. Minimally effective teachers are on probation for a year, and if they get the same rating again, can be fired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you hate WTU, then you hate me. And of course you don't know me. That's why this hating is so irrational. There's nothing greedy or abusive about a union that endeavors to obtain due process for its members.

There is if you think it results in teachers that fail your kids. You PP may be a good teacher, but too many are not competent and our kids are paying or we are to flee the system. What I think a lot of WTU folks forget is that DC parents are find options out of the system. Soon you really will have the parents that don't care with the attendant problems.

Can you give me some examples of teachers that fail your kids? Or how WTU actions resulted in teachers that fail your kids?