"We need to go back to direct instruction"

[Anonymous]

+1 on the workshop model. In general, I think some classrooms actually give kids too much movement and breaks to the point where they can never actually settle in for learning. Most kids need calm and quiet to actually work and we aren’t giving that to them.

Yes, very very true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve taught using an inquiry-based system, and I’ve taught using direct instruction. I’ve also tutored students needing remediation and taken course work on remediation strategies for students with specific learning disabilities.

For those who struggle, especially with number sense, there is no substitute for direct instruction with multi-sensory learning strategies.

But there are so also many students who don’t struggle and students who don’t get an adequate challenge from math classes. Those students do really well with inquiry-based learning. In fact, I’ve seen standardized testing scores that show how their quantitative reasoning shoots up under such programs.

There just isn’t one strategy or curriculum that is going to work for all students all the time. I wish we could go back to tracking students into separate math classes so as to better meet their individual needs.

Preach! Being everything to everyone is one thing driving good educators to other fields. (The other big ones being smart phones and student behavior.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Elementary teacher here. I have had both strong and weak kids in math class. The current trend to have kids spend so much time exploring alternate ways of solving problems is crazy. They need to memorize their times tables once they understand how multiplication works, not constantly draw six groups of eight objects. Kids with LD need much direct instruction while the advanced kids need projects. It’s hard to do all at once, and now teachers all have to teach the same way at the same time, without textbooks or workbooks.

In the old days, I’d have a group lesson, then the advanced kids would do the problems or activities in the book, including the challenge stuff, and the other kids would work in small groups or independently on the basic problems. It was quiet and kids could concentrate. This math workshop model has kids constantly moving and talking and getting on and off computers, all of which is so distracting.

Please contact your school board and ask for textbooks.

My own child in high school had another parent who was a high school math teacher, and trying to help her without a textbook was so hard, because my child was not strong in math and could not explain what strategy she was supposed to use.

LOL. Using textbooks would mean that the children in your class would have to know how to read, and most can't, even in high school. That's why computers that say everything aloud are so helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has been known since the 60s: https://www.nifdi.org/what-is-di/project-follow-through.html

+1 million.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because then school would need to find teachers that can teach. Sure a number of good teachers exist but most of them coming out of school and heading into teaching are just glorified day care professionals.

This is not the issue stop speaking like you're an expert. We have enough "expert" parents. This is a county/state created issue. Do your research.

Sorry to have triggered you but what passes for teaching in many, but not all, US school systems is a warm body serving as a guide/proctor for kids using the latest fad software chosen by school administrators looking for a job down the line with an educational services company.

Yup....the good teachers are burnt out. Enjoy the shortage now it's warm body "trainees". Sorry the truth triggers you.

Good news - giving teachers a scripted curriculum and having them implement it has been proven to be very effective for kids. So the "trainees" should be able to do just fine. As well as amazing, awesome, star quality teachers? No. Good enough with the right quality, direct instruction curriculum. Yes. See the link a PP posted on the first page to studies done decades ago.

Half the point of direct instruction is that even bad teachers can use it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elementary teacher here. I have had both strong and weak kids in math class. The current trend to have kids spend so much time exploring alternate ways of solving problems is crazy. They need to memorize their times tables once they understand how multiplication works, not constantly draw six groups of eight objects. Kids with LD need much direct instruction while the advanced kids need projects. It’s hard to do all at once, and now teachers all have to teach the same way at the same time, without textbooks or workbooks.

In the old days, I’d have a group lesson, then the advanced kids would do the problems or activities in the book, including the challenge stuff, and the other kids would work in small groups or independently on the basic problems. It was quiet and kids could concentrate. This math workshop model has kids constantly moving and talking and getting on and off computers, all of which is so distracting.

Please contact your school board and ask for textbooks.

My own child in high school had another parent who was a high school math teacher, and trying to help her without a textbook was so hard, because my child was not strong in math and could not explain what strategy she was supposed to use.

+1 on the workshop model. In general, I think some classrooms actually give kids too much movement and breaks to the point where they can never actually settle in for learning. Most kids need calm and quiet to actually work and we aren’t giving that to them.

My first thought on walking through the private I am moving my kids to is "Wow, it's so quiet and calm in here. My kids will love this!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has been known since the 60s: https://www.nifdi.org/what-is-di/project-follow-through.html

I'm going to guess that racism was the reason for why the results weren't widely publicized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yup.

Inquiry is great for the motivated and the curious. It’s great for kids reading and doing math at grade level.

That’s only 1 group of kids.

My rising 9th grader needs dumbed down direct instruction in math. I think engineering is out lol!

But he’s pretty good at everything else! That’s great. Stop trying to get everyone to calculus. Let kids focus on their strengths. And stop ignoring history!

Even the motivated and the curious are still kids or teenagers. Sometimes they need adults to give them context, help them make connections, etc. It is an EXTREMELY rare student who wouldn't benefit from at least half direct instruction - AP teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because then school would need to find teachers that can teach. Sure a number of good teachers exist but most of them coming out of school and heading into teaching are just glorified day care professionals.

This is not the issue stop speaking like you're an expert. We have enough "expert" parents. This is a county/state created issue. Do your research.

Sorry to have triggered you but what passes for teaching in many, but not all, US school systems is a warm body serving as a guide/proctor for kids using the latest fad software chosen by school administrators looking for a job down the line with an educational services company.

Yup....the good teachers are burnt out. Enjoy the shortage now it's warm body "trainees". Sorry the truth triggers you.

Good news - giving teachers a scripted curriculum and having them implement it has been proven to be very effective for kids. So the "trainees" should be able to do just fine. As well as amazing, awesome, star quality teachers? No. Good enough with the right quality, direct instruction curriculum. Yes. See the link a PP posted on the first page to studies done decades ago.

Half the point of direct instruction is that even bad teachers can use it.

We have video recording in this century. Why waste money on teachers at all? Just record a good lecturer once and show the video to the students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because then school would need to find teachers that can teach. Sure a number of good teachers exist but most of them coming out of school and heading into teaching are just glorified day care professionals.

This is not the issue stop speaking like you're an expert. We have enough "expert" parents. This is a county/state created issue. Do your research.

Sorry to have triggered you but what passes for teaching in many, but not all, US school systems is a warm body serving as a guide/proctor for kids using the latest fad software chosen by school administrators looking for a job down the line with an educational services company.

Yup....the good teachers are burnt out. Enjoy the shortage now it's warm body "trainees". Sorry the truth triggers you.

Good news - giving teachers a scripted curriculum and having them implement it has been proven to be very effective for kids. So the "trainees" should be able to do just fine. As well as amazing, awesome, star quality teachers? No. Good enough with the right quality, direct instruction curriculum. Yes. See the link a PP posted on the first page to studies done decades ago.

Half the point of direct instruction is that even bad teachers can use it.

We have video recording in this century. Why waste money on teachers at all? Just record a good lecturer once and show the video to the students.

Not sure if serious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yup.

Inquiry is great for the motivated and the curious. It’s great for kids reading and doing math at grade level.

That’s only 1 group of kids.

My rising 9th grader needs dumbed down direct instruction in math. I think engineering is out lol!

But he’s pretty good at everything else! That’s great. Stop trying to get everyone to calculus. Let kids focus on their strengths. And stop ignoring history!

+1

The kids in the $60K/yr privates going to ivies are getting inquiry-based learning… without software at low student-teacher ratios with well-behaved kids. The top public kids should be able to have this as well.

For everyone else give them what they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yup.

Inquiry is great for the motivated and the curious. It’s great for kids reading and doing math at grade level.

That’s only 1 group of kids.

My rising 9th grader needs dumbed down direct instruction in math. I think engineering is out lol!

But he’s pretty good at everything else! That’s great. Stop trying to get everyone to calculus. Let kids focus on their strengths. And stop ignoring history!

Even the motivated and the curious are still kids or teenagers. Sometimes they need adults to give them context, help them make connections, etc. It is an EXTREMELY rare student who wouldn't benefit from at least half direct instruction - AP teacher

I hated inquiry based learning. Just wanted my math and science teachers to show me how to solve things and explain why it worked. They thought because we were "gifted" we needed to figure things out for ourselves or we'd be bored, but I never had even my smartest classmates complain about just being taught.
-TJ alumna

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yup.

Inquiry is great for the motivated and the curious. It’s great for kids reading and doing math at grade level.

That’s only 1 group of kids.

My rising 9th grader needs dumbed down direct instruction in math. I think engineering is out lol!

But he’s pretty good at everything else! That’s great. Stop trying to get everyone to calculus. Let kids focus on their strengths. And stop ignoring history!

+1

The kids in the $60K/yr privates going to ivies are getting inquiry-based learning… without software at low student-teacher ratios with well-behaved kids. The top public kids should be able to have this as well.

For everyone else give them what they want.

A number of parents at private schools are unhappy with inquiry learning, particularly in math. But private schools jump on fads too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It took thousands of years of inquiry by millions of people, including the most brilliant minds ever to walk the earth, to develop mathematics, but we expect an average child to replicate that achievement. The idea is not only inefficient, it’s preposterous.

Students need direct instruction from people who have already mastered the content and have a deep understanding of how the particular concept fits into the broader field in general. They need someone who can use their current knowledge level to help them understand the new topic and make sure it’ll provide the foundation they need for future study.

Direct instruction doesn’t simply mean students are passively sitting in their desk while being lectured to. Direct instruction can involve any number of activities that a teacher uses to generate interest and/or reinforce learning. These activities, however, become more effective when the students understand what is going on and aren’t just flailing. For example, labs are an integral component of a Chemistry class. However, the labs are done after the underlying concept has been taught, and with specific instructions. No Chem teacher would hand their students a tray of chemicals, tell them to play around with them to see what happens, and expect they would be able to rediscover whatever concept the experiment was supposed to illustrate.

Too much of modern education is spent on “teaching students how to think” without giving them the content they need to have something to think about. They need facts (yes - this may mean some rote memorization) and skills. Those provide the foundation, framework, and toolset that will enable them to make independent inquiries. In the meantime, let’s lift them to stand on the shoulders of giants rather than having them fumble and flounder in the dark.

I wish you were on SB. Voice of reason

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It took thousands of years of inquiry by millions of people, including the most brilliant minds ever to walk the earth, to develop mathematics, but we expect an average child to replicate that achievement. The idea is not only inefficient, it’s preposterous.

Students need direct instruction from people who have already mastered the content and have a deep understanding of how the particular concept fits into the broader field in general. They need someone who can use their current knowledge level to help them understand the new topic and make sure it’ll provide the foundation they need for future study.

Direct instruction doesn’t simply mean students are passively sitting in their desk while being lectured to. Direct instruction can involve any number of activities that a teacher uses to generate interest and/or reinforce learning. These activities, however, become more effective when the students understand what is going on and aren’t just flailing. For example, labs are an integral component of a Chemistry class. However, the labs are done after the underlying concept has been taught, and with specific instructions. No Chem teacher would hand their students a tray of chemicals, tell them to play around with them to see what happens, and expect they would be able to rediscover whatever concept the experiment was supposed to illustrate.

Too much of modern education is spent on “teaching students how to think” without giving them the content they need to have something to think about. They need facts (yes - this may mean some rote memorization) and skills. Those provide the foundation, framework, and toolset that will enable them to make independent inquiries. In the meantime, let’s lift them to stand on the shoulders of giants rather than having them fumble and flounder in the dark.

I wish you were on SB. Voice of reason

Try running the teacher's colleges. That's where these ideas trickle into the world of education.