Anyone else struggle with the veneer of professionalism?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely relate to this. 20 years in corporate America climbing that ladder. Just took a voluntary buyout. Not sure what’s next but I have time to figure it out.

Zoom is a big part of it. It’s awful for so many reasons.

For me a big part of it was not being able to say what I wanted to say or what the obvious elephant in the room was. I know how to behave in a corporate setting (see: moving up that ladder!) but the disconnect between the reality and the narrow window of how we were expected to act or what our role was (I also used to think of the play analogy all the time) was really getting to me. I felt it in my throat sometimes - like all the words and feelings just sitting there stuck and unable to get out. I am not sure if it’s inevitable or if I wasn’t cut out for senior level roles. I am capable of doing the work and playing there politics but behaving in the environment was affecting me more than I wanted it to.

Not sure the solution but I know exactly what you mean. I think if you are smart and you see this clearly, it’s hard to unsee.

I feel your pain, it must be absolute torture to sit at a desk all day in an air-conditioned office or home, looking at the monitor and acting politely with people on the screen the screen while making nearly $1 million. True hardship.

I missed the part where anyone said they were making $1m. did they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I relate completely, OP!!

To help people understand-for me the problem is having to actively participate in validating an alternate reality that I know is false, but I cannot say it’s false and keep my job. Like having to pretend to believe things that any idiot could know are false. It rots my soul and makes me feel like a bad person.

Yep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I relate completely, OP!!

To help people understand-for me the problem is having to actively participate in validating an alternate reality that I know is false, but I cannot say it’s false and keep my job. Like having to pretend to believe things that any idiot could know are false. It rots my soul and makes me feel like a bad person.

op - yesssss.

I'll give some more examples: at my work, barely anyone makes small talk ever or laughs or shares something funny or personal that happened to them (not in a forced way, just like human connection. All talk time is used for business but if you are on 7 hours of calls a day I start to sort of unravel - I need to like, feel like a human being for a second.
I could give more examples, but that's a huge one.

[Anonymous]

There's a time and a place to be your authentic self. It's rarely at work, especially if you consider yourself quirky or a bit off-center (who I find are typically the people who make these kinds of complaints). Work and companies are teams, and teams don't value individualism - they value cooperation, low friction, and effort. That's not to say you need to support group think or suppress your opinions - your perspectives are likely valuable and part of why you're on the team. But it does mean you need to find the right ways/times/methods/etc to share them and contribute.

If you feel like you can't be your authentic self because your colleagues are prejudiced against some part of who you are, that sucks and is a legitimate complaint.

But if you fancy yourself as some sort of Cassandra and think being your "authentic self" is calling bullshit on anything you disagree with, then you're probably just an a-hole with crappy social skills.

And there's plenty of grey space between and around those extremes.

[Anonymous]

It's hard for me, too, OP. Usually, I feel like a Muppet. My mouth is moving but the words seem to come from somewhere else. I find it exhausting and disorienting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I relate completely, OP!!

To help people understand-for me the problem is having to actively participate in validating an alternate reality that I know is false, but I cannot say it’s false and keep my job. Like having to pretend to believe things that any idiot could know are false. It rots my soul and makes me feel like a bad person.

What kind of work weighs this much that it “rots your soul”? Like are you selling cigarettes to orphans??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I relate completely, OP!!

To help people understand-for me the problem is having to actively participate in validating an alternate reality that I know is false, but I cannot say it’s false and keep my job. Like having to pretend to believe things that any idiot could know are false. It rots my soul and makes me feel like a bad person.

op - yesssss.

I'll give some more examples: at my work, barely anyone makes small talk ever or laughs or shares something funny or personal that happened to them (not in a forced way, just like human connection. All talk time is used for business but if you are on 7 hours of calls a day I start to sort of unravel - I need to like, feel like a human being for a second.
I could give more examples, but that's a huge one.

Have you never had a real job, like a busy retail job where you have to work with people from all walks of life and have a constant stream of customers? Or a demanding technical or manual job where actual productive work is required for 7 hours?

7 hours, that’s not even the full day? You want to treat your job like a hobby, where you can hang with friends and “unravel”? Let your DH be the breadwinner and you get a hobby job like a photo studio.

[Anonymous]

Not OP but I think some people are missing the gist of what OP is trying to say. It’s not about being allowed to be an oddball or being quirky or being disagreeable.

It’s more macro. Maybe the entire premise of the companies product line is flawed, or your company acquired another and it’s a complete dog and dragging your company down the drain, or you pretend your product is actually good for people when it’s not. And no one can actually say these macro things out loud. You have to pretend to celebrate someone hitting a sales goal when the entire company is on a slow death march, or sit in product roadmap meetings to a product that users don’t actually use or pretend that it’s cool that the company keeps making money hand over fist when you recognize from the inside that it’s a monopoly. A lot of corporate America is like this. Think: big tech, insurance companies, healthcare, oil and gas.

Everyone keeps up the facade for the paycheck or the status. Many of them believe the lie they are telling to themselves about what their jobs or their companies actually do.

If you have been in senior roles in corporate America for multiple decades this is what it’s like - not everywhere but most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but I think some people are missing the gist of what OP is trying to say. It’s not about being allowed to be an oddball or being quirky or being disagreeable.

It’s more macro. Maybe the entire premise of the companies product line is flawed, or your company acquired another and it’s a complete dog and dragging your company down the drain, or you pretend your product is actually good for people when it’s not. And no one can actually say these macro things out loud. You have to pretend to celebrate someone hitting a sales goal when the entire company is on a slow death march, or sit in product roadmap meetings to a product that users don’t actually use or pretend that it’s cool that the company keeps making money hand over fist when you recognize from the inside that it’s a monopoly. A lot of corporate America is like this. Think: big tech, insurance companies, healthcare, oil and gas.

Everyone keeps up the facade for the paycheck or the status. Many of them believe the lie they are telling to themselves about what their jobs or their companies actually do.

If you have been in senior roles in corporate America for multiple decades this is what it’s like - not everywhere but most.

I’been in senior roles at F 500. If and when it gets to the point where you are operating under false pretenses more often than not, it’s time to get out. Before that though, as I rose in corporations, I learned that my view of a thing may not be the only view or the right view of a thing. For example, an acquisition’s product line may be a quality assurance nightmare, but leadership didn’t buy the company for that product. They bought it for the IP. Or the talent that would take another 20 months to build the team, and the product is being dropped eventually, in the meantime we need to complete the integration. Or another example, we are going to buy an entire business and pay a guzzillion bucks in legal fees but the long term ROI is that it get us into the Cyber market fast. In the meantime the Legal team is burning the midnight oil. I could come up with a few other examples, but that’s all to say, there are layers to every business transaction, approach, viewpoint, angle, etc and you may not know them outright, but you could if you asked more questions, and definitely you need to start understanding the nuances of business as you keep rising in your career There is a macro to your definition of macro.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I relate completely, OP!!

To help people understand-for me the problem is having to actively participate in validating an alternate reality that I know is false, but I cannot say it’s false and keep my job. Like having to pretend to believe things that any idiot could know are false. It rots my soul and makes me feel like a bad person.

op - yesssss.

I'll give some more examples: at my work, barely anyone makes small talk ever or laughs or shares something funny or personal that happened to them (not in a forced way, just like human connection. All talk time is used for business but if you are on 7 hours of calls a day I start to sort of unravel - I need to like, feel like a human being for a second.
I could give more examples, but that's a huge one.

You actually sound young OP, work on your confidence to bring your personality to work, or, find a workplace that is a better fit for your style.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but I think some people are missing the gist of what OP is trying to say. It’s not about being allowed to be an oddball or being quirky or being disagreeable.

It’s more macro. Maybe the entire premise of the companies product line is flawed, or your company acquired another and it’s a complete dog and dragging your company down the drain, or you pretend your product is actually good for people when it’s not. And no one can actually say these macro things out loud. You have to pretend to celebrate someone hitting a sales goal when the entire company is on a slow death march, or sit in product roadmap meetings to a product that users don’t actually use or pretend that it’s cool that the company keeps making money hand over fist when you recognize from the inside that it’s a monopoly. A lot of corporate America is like this. Think: big tech, insurance companies, healthcare, oil and gas.

Everyone keeps up the facade for the paycheck or the status. Many of them believe the lie they are telling to themselves about what their jobs or their companies actually do.

If you have been in senior roles in corporate America for multiple decades this is what it’s like - not everywhere but most.

So you are making money hand over fist, but feel guilty your company is a monopoly? Yeah, life is brutal that way, sorry that life handed you the short straw.

[Anonymous]

Go work in tech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I relate completely, OP!!

To help people understand-for me the problem is having to actively participate in validating an alternate reality that I know is false, but I cannot say it’s false and keep my job. Like having to pretend to believe things that any idiot could know are false. It rots my soul and makes me feel like a bad person.

op - yesssss.

I'll give some more examples: at my work, barely anyone makes small talk ever or laughs or shares something funny or personal that happened to them (not in a forced way, just like human connection. All talk time is used for business but if you are on 7 hours of calls a day I start to sort of unravel - I need to like, feel like a human being for a second.
I could give more examples, but that's a huge one.

Have you never had a real job, like a busy retail job where you have to work with people from all walks of life and have a constant stream of customers? Or a demanding technical or manual job where actual productive work is required for 7 hours?

7 hours, that’s not even the full day? You want to treat your job like a hobby, where you can hang with friends and “unravel”? Let your DH be the breadwinner and you get a hobby job like a photo studio.

op -
1. 7 hours is just the time I spend on zoom. My typical workday is 9-10h all in.
2. Yes I've worked in retail, waited tables at restaurants and bars, done a year of overnight shifts, 4.30a-1230p shifts (sometimes in tandem) and done months at a clip where I had no days off (including weekends. I had no days off, for example, from Nov 8 to December 17 last year (including thanksgiving) bc we had a huge pitch and it was not going well. So.... yeah.
3. I don't care about hard work. But if I'm working hard I can't also then keep up a facade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but I think some people are missing the gist of what OP is trying to say. It’s not about being allowed to be an oddball or being quirky or being disagreeable.

It’s more macro. Maybe the entire premise of the companies product line is flawed, or your company acquired another and it’s a complete dog and dragging your company down the drain, or you pretend your product is actually good for people when it’s not. And no one can actually say these macro things out loud. You have to pretend to celebrate someone hitting a sales goal when the entire company is on a slow death march, or sit in product roadmap meetings to a product that users don’t actually use or pretend that it’s cool that the company keeps making money hand over fist when you recognize from the inside that it’s a monopoly. A lot of corporate America is like this. Think: big tech, insurance companies, healthcare, oil and gas.

Everyone keeps up the facade for the paycheck or the status. Many of them believe the lie they are telling to themselves about what their jobs or their companies actually do.

If you have been in senior roles in corporate America for multiple decades this is what it’s like - not everywhere but most.

I’been in senior roles at F 500. If and when it gets to the point where you are operating under false pretenses more often than not, it’s time to get out. Before that though, as I rose in corporations, I learned that my view of a thing may not be the only view or the right view of a thing. For example, an acquisition’s product line may be a quality assurance nightmare, but leadership didn’t buy the company for that product. They bought it for the IP. Or the talent that would take another 20 months to build the team, and the product is being dropped eventually, in the meantime we need to complete the integration. Or another example, we are going to buy an entire business and pay a guzzillion bucks in legal fees but the long term ROI is that it get us into the Cyber market fast. In the meantime the Legal team is burning the midnight oil. I could come up with a few other examples, but that’s all to say, there are layers to every business transaction, approach, viewpoint, angle, etc and you may not know them outright, but you could if you asked more questions, and definitely you need to start understanding the nuances of business as you keep rising in your career There is a macro to your definition of macro.

but i think you can learn these things and in fact faster if you're not hiding behind a veneer of kind of corporate speak and business only at all times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would love to know what PPs feel they can't be candid about.
My experience is that when people say they can't be as candid as they'd like, the things they wish they could say are pretty inappropriate. If being your authentic self means being rude, ageist, dismissive of others, etc., or talking national politics at work, please continue to keep the quiet parts quiet.

+1. I don’t get what angle OP is talking about - her quirky self, fraud at the company, boring AF job, toxic culture workplace, etc.