Ghana vs Uruguay:don't read if you don't want to know result!

[Anonymous]

OP here and this is my only post since the original post. The rules do not "allow' for a handball and there's nothing brilliant about foul play. Also, it looked to me like the ball and offending hand were across the goal line at the time of the offense so that should count as a goal.

Since this is a forum for moms and dads let's do a poll: would you want your children to behave like Suarez (intentionally break the rules, for example in a sports match, in a test or keeping something valuable that they find knowing who it belongs to, or coming home very very late after going to a place you had told them not to go to); or would you want them to behave like Gyan (having missed an opportunity, immediately pick yourself up, dust yourself off and try again)?

On a more positive note, Nelson Mandela invited the Ghanaian players and they met him today at his home in Johannesburg today. I imagine that meant a lot to them.

[Anonymous]

Answer: Yes. When my son makes it to the World Cup, and it's only he that stands between his team making it to the next round, I'll be cheering as he makes the smart decision to deliberately hit the ball and keep if from going in the goal so that his team has at least a chance to go forward. Yeah! That's my boy! Or, Yeah! That's my girl!

[Anonymous]

OP-

That's kind of a false dichotomy you are creating. Suarez didn't plan that. He didn't conspire to cheat the Ghanaians out of a goal. It was a spur-of-the-moment reaction to what was going on. He was indeed incredulous afterwards, but that is part of the landscape of competitive sports.

I also don't think the analogies you are providing, comparing Suarez's play to the other scenarios, is particularly accurate or apt.

Things like these happen in sports. I can give you a million examples where a player broke a rule and ultimately benefited his/her team. Sometimes they were caught, like Suarez, but things still broke their way. And sometimes they weren't and directly benefited from breaking the rule.

Is a football linemen who holds a cheater? Is a basketball player who commits a foul cheating?

Again, it was a shit ending. But that is how it goes in sports sometimes. I know that offers NO solace to Ghana and, if everything was right in the world, Ghana would have advanced. But you're expecting perfection in a fundamentally imperfect world and are unfairly signaling out one guy because his error happened under an intense spotlight. I'm not going to make any judgments about his character good or bad, based on that one play and nor should you.

[Anonymous]

PP, excellent.

It's true, you know one thing about this player. He hit a ball with his hands. The fact that you're vilifying him I think is really unfair. Would you want your son or daughter to judge someone on this one action? An action that had to be in some sense instinctual?

[Anonymous]

Well, to that poster's defense, why let things like nuance get in the way of simplified narratives where the good guys and bad guys are easily defined. I mean, who wants to actually THINK when we can just jump to conclusions and generalize about people based on snippets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, to that poster's defense, why let things like nuance get in the way of simplified narratives where the good guys and bad guys are easily defined. I mean, who wants to actually THINK when we can just jump to conclusions and generalize about people based on snippets.

Just make sure you don't have your hands extended when you jump to those conclusions.

[Anonymous]

23:07 What does the possibility that Suarez did not plan to block a goal with his hands have to do with the nature of the foul? And how do you know what he was thinking? There are plenty of people who are calling his block brilliant. If this was reflexive, so was Zidaine's response to that Italian player who by saying what he was saying to Zidaine was committing a foul.

[Anonymous]

It matters because intent matters. It's why a handball in the box is an automatic red, because the perceived intent is to stop a goal.

I'm not saying that spur-of-the-moment reactions can't be punished, only that they differ from pre-meditated actions. Do you see a difference between Zidaine's headbutt and if a player was inserted into a game with the sole intention of injuring another player? I certainly do.

Suarez saw a ball going into the net and did everything he could to stop it. In doing so he broke a rule and was rightfully penalized. You can argue that FIFA should have extended the ban (something I'd probably agree with). But to start making character judgments based on that one play is just nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Sucks for Ghana, and I would have liked to see them go further, but:

If you get a PK and not make it, that's on you. Germany lost to Serbia by not making the PK, the US lost to Ghana for not making one, and now Ghana lost for not making one. They could have, but the nerves got the best of them.

While its sad for Africa, after such an game, and you miss the PK, you don't really deserve to win.

By now, we all know who will most likely win it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here and this is my only post since the original post. The rules do not "allow' for a handball and there's nothing brilliant about foul play. Also, it looked to me like the ball and offending hand were across the goal line at the time of the offense so that should count as a goal.

Since this is a forum for moms and dads let's do a poll: would you want your children to behave like Suarez (intentionally break the rules, for example in a sports match, in a test or keeping something valuable that they find knowing who it belongs to, or coming home very very late after going to a place you had told them not to go to); or would you want them to behave like Gyan (having missed an opportunity, immediately pick yourself up, dust yourself off and try again)?

On a more positive note, Nelson Mandela invited the Ghanaian players and they met him today at his home in Johannesburg today. I imagine that meant a lot to them.

A great question indeed. I would have rather have a gutsy Gyan than a cheat Suarez. Notice how few answers you got to your question lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Answer: Yes. When my son makes it to the World Cup, and it's only he that stands between his team making it to the next round, I'll be cheering as he makes the smart decision to deliberately hit the ball and keep if from going in the goal so that his team has at least a chance to go forward. Yeah! That's my boy! Or, Yeah! That's my girl!

Oh yeah, than you should condone what Thierry Henry did also. And condone what Zidane did. And Maradona. And that German goalie.

Yes you are condoning cheating. Great parenting indeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here and this is my only post since the original post. The rules do not "allow' for a handball and there's nothing brilliant about foul play. Also, it looked to me like the ball and offending hand were across the goal line at the time of the offense so that should count as a goal.

Since this is a forum for moms and dads let's do a poll: would you want your children to behave like Suarez (intentionally break the rules, for example in a sports match, in a test or keeping something valuable that they find knowing who it belongs to, or coming home very very late after going to a place you had told them not to go to); or would you want them to behave like Gyan (having missed an opportunity, immediately pick yourself up, dust yourself off and try again)?

On a more positive note, Nelson Mandela invited the Ghanaian players and they met him today at his home in Johannesburg today. I imagine that meant a lot to them.

A great question indeed. I would have rather have a gutsy Gyan than a cheat Suarez. Notice how few answers you got to your question lol.

You act as if the two are mutually exclusive. What makes you sure Suarez wouldn't 'dust himself off' too? He didn't, because they won. Winners don't pick themselves up and dust themselves off. What makes you sure Gyan wouldn't have done the same thing if the ball were on the other end of the field? Because he picked himself up and dusted himself off?

How is Gyan 'gutsy'? Because he had to take a penalty kick? You know he's a soccer player, right? That he's used to taking penalty kicks when someone gets a red card. He's also used to finishing a game. I don't get this beatification of Gyan. He missed a PK, no problem. Then he finished a game. That's about the extent of it. If it's more in your mind, it's because you invented a Cindarella story in your head about how it would be more JUST for Ghana to win. That's your problem.

[Anonymous]

Germany lost to Serbia by not making the PK, the US lost to Ghana for not making one, and now Ghana lost for not making one. They could have, but the nerves got the best of them.

Did any of these PKs involve a striker who mistook himself for a goalie in the final minute of an overtime game? This play by Suarez betrays the spirit of soccer, which is known as football around the world because the essence of the game is that players use their feet and the rest of their body, chest to trap, head to pass, deflect and even score, because that's so damn challenging. Even the Italian word for soccer, calcio, is foot-oriented. It means "kick." I cannot imagine a more disappointing way for a team to lose or a more questionable way for a team to win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here and this is my only post since the original post. The rules do not "allow' for a handball and there's nothing brilliant about foul play. Also, it looked to me like the ball and offending hand were across the goal line at the time of the offense so that should count as a goal.

Since this is a forum for moms and dads let's do a poll: would you want your children to behave like Suarez (intentionally break the rules, for example in a sports match, in a test or keeping something valuable that they find knowing who it belongs to, or coming home very very late after going to a place you had told them not to go to); or would you want them to behave like Gyan (having missed an opportunity, immediately pick yourself up, dust yourself off and try again)?

On a more positive note, Nelson Mandela invited the Ghanaian players and they met him today at his home in Johannesburg today. I imagine that meant a lot to them.

A great question indeed. I would have rather have a gutsy Gyan than a cheat Suarez. Notice how few answers you got to your question lol.

You act as if the two are mutually exclusive. What makes you sure Suarez wouldn't 'dust himself off' too? He didn't, because they won. Winners don't pick themselves up and dust themselves off. What makes you sure Gyan wouldn't have done the same thing if the ball were on the other end of the field? Because he picked himself up and dusted himself off?

How is Gyan 'gutsy'? Because he had to take a penalty kick? You know he's a soccer player, right? That he's used to taking penalty kicks when someone gets a red card. He's also used to finishing a game. I don't get this beatification of Gyan. He missed a PK, no problem. Then he finished a game. That's about the extent of it. If it's more in your mind, it's because you invented a Cindarella story in your head about how it would be more JUST for Ghana to win. That's your problem.

Woh, woh, woh. You are asking PP to understand the nuance of individuals in his/her analysis! For shame!!! Don't you realize we need to conveniently fit people into little boxes as either good guys or bad guys and then create simply little narratives to describe them? Come on, man, you actually expect us to do more than look at a tiny sliver of a person's life before passing judgment from afar? Ha!

We could just as easily spin a completely different narrative. What if we hold Suarez up as the martyr for his team. He was willing to sacrifice himself for the rest of the Ghana game and subsequent teams to give his teammates and country a chance to advance. How selfless! And that jerk Gyan. CLEARLY he can't control his emotions, was so inflamed by Suarez's selflessness that he couldn't compose himself to make the kick. After losing, he crumbles in a heap, doesn't shake a single opposing player's hand, and is to caught up in his own self-loathing to be a gracious loser. See how easy that was?!?!

Do I ACTUALLY subscribe to that line of thinking? Heavens no. But the idea that we can judge the character of a person based on a few plays in a soccer game is complete rubbish. People are too complex and nuanced to reduce to this type of thinking and it is intellectually and morally dishonest to attempt to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Germany lost to Serbia by not making the PK, the US lost to Ghana for not making one, and now Ghana lost for not making one. They could have, but the nerves got the best of them.

Did any of these PKs involve a striker who mistook himself for a goalie in the final minute of an overtime game? This play by Suarez betrays the spirit of soccer, which is known as football around the world because the essence of the game is that players use their feet and the rest of their body, chest to trap, head to pass, deflect and even score, because that's so damn challenging. Even the Italian word for soccer, calcio, is foot-oriented. It means "kick." I cannot imagine a more disappointing way for a team to lose or a more questionable way for a team to win.

I agree, cheating sucks, especially when you lose due to the other team cheating. But, they got caught cheating, they got what they get for cheating and Ghana failed to take what was theirs. The ref can't give them a goal and make them winner because they deserve to and the other team cheated. They had their chance to make things right, but didn't. What else is there to say?

The Ref did everything right. It wasn't him, it was Ghana who failed to follow through. In the end it doesn't matter why you get a PK, you gotta make them if you wanna win. Noone is gonna be a world champion because the world thinks you deserve it or because you got cheated on. You have to make the goals. You can't win without it...just ask Argentina...lol