Brent rebuild details to know before you accept that lottery spot

[Anonymous]

Is this just a Ward 6 problem, because of our specific geography? Do other wards have an easier time finding swing spaces that don't require this kind of commute?

The city has been trying to figure out what to do with all the vacant office space downtown -- it seems like it would be smart to convert some of it into a permanent swing space for schools. Maybe a location near Union Station or Judiciary Square -- metro accessible and fairly centrally located, and fairly convenient for parents who work anywhere in the core commercial districts. It's not as convenient as something on the Hill, but it's not as inconvenient as Meyer, and it would have the potential to be used by schools in other wards as well. Might make more sense than lobbying for a swing space in a Navy Yard building, which would have less utility to the district when Brent is done with it (and also Navy Yard doesn't have nearly as many issues filling office space as downtown does).

Just a thought.

[Anonymous]

How comforting. DCPS is treating Amidon even worse than it's treating Brent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 26th Street NE space being used by JO Wilson is not a ton closer.

It's a much easier commute across the Hill, and while there is rush hour traffic on the Hill, it's nothing like what you will run into between Brent and Meyer. With no traffic, Meyer is only about 5 minutes longer. But with traffic, you are talking about around 20 minutes for the 26th street space versus 40 or more minutes for Meyer. I could also see families IB for Brent who didn't want to use the buses figuring out some carpool options if they WFH or have a SAHP or part-time parent. Or doing the bus in the morning but then picking up their kids at 26th street in the afternoon to take them to activities. None of that is possible if the kids are at Meyer.

There is kind of a mental obstacle people have to get over with swing spaces, no matter where they are. Especially with younger kids. But that mental obstacle is easier to get over when the swing space is at least sort of in the same neighborhood. It's very hard for people to get used to the idea of sending small children across town on a bus. By upper elementary and middle, this relaxes a bit, but it's understandable that ECE parents aren't enthusiastic about it.

Why are we even talking about the 26th st space? Didn’t DCPS say that it’s too small for Brent?

Brent has fewer students than JOW, so I don't see how it could be too small.

[Anonymous]

Brent has issues besides the swing space location that parents should consider. Mainly, the quality of the curriculum in 4th and 5th grade and lack of interest in the public middle school option. If parents have rising K, 1st, or 2nd grade students, they should think long-term what the swing space/school will mean for them. The lottery is not a safe option, especially for the Latins, and contrary to reputation, Brent does not have a good curriculum for the upper grades (made worse by combining the 4th and 5th graders).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Brent has issues besides the swing space location that parents should consider. Mainly, the quality of the curriculum in 4th and 5th grade and lack of interest in the public middle school option. If parents have rising K, 1st, or 2nd grade students, they should think long-term what the swing space/school will mean for them. The lottery is not a safe option, especially for the Latins, and contrary to reputation, Brent does not have a good curriculum for the upper grades (made worse by combining the 4th and 5th graders).

The combined 4th & 5th grade thing -- especially made for logistics and not educational reasons -- is wild. I can't imagine what 5th grade parent would sign up for that, especially at the current ratios.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Brent has issues besides the swing space location that parents should consider. Mainly, the quality of the curriculum in 4th and 5th grade and lack of interest in the public middle school option. If parents have rising K, 1st, or 2nd grade students, they should think long-term what the swing space/school will mean for them. The lottery is not a safe option, especially for the Latins, and contrary to reputation, Brent does not have a good curriculum for the upper grades (made worse by combining the 4th and 5th graders).

Can you expand on what you mean by "does not have a good curriculum"? I get the concerns about combining 4th and 5th, I agree with you there. But doesn't Brent just follow the same curriculum as the rest of DCPS? How is Brent's curriculum different from Ludlow-Taylor's, or Amidon's? School's might vary in terms of percent of kids on, above, or below grade level, but aren't most kids in DCPS learning pretty much the same stuff?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brent has issues besides the swing space location that parents should consider. Mainly, the quality of the curriculum in 4th and 5th grade and lack of interest in the public middle school option. If parents have rising K, 1st, or 2nd grade students, they should think long-term what the swing space/school will mean for them. The lottery is not a safe option, especially for the Latins, and contrary to reputation, Brent does not have a good curriculum for the upper grades (made worse by combining the 4th and 5th graders).

Can you expand on what you mean by "does not have a good curriculum"? I get the concerns about combining 4th and 5th, I agree with you there. But doesn't Brent just follow the same curriculum as the rest of DCPS? How is Brent's curriculum different from Ludlow-Taylor's, or Amidon's? School's might vary in terms of percent of kids on, above, or below grade level, but aren't most kids in DCPS learning pretty much the same stuff?

Not the poster you're asking (and I am also curious what about Brent's curriculum they don't like), but it's definitely not true that all DCPSes meaningfully teach the same curriculum even if they use largely the same materials. For instance, my DD now attends a school where 3rd-5th graders get at least an hour of writing instruction every day; at her old school, it was incorporated into ELA and 15 minutes maximum. Maybe they technically use the same curriculum, but what they were learning was not meaningfully the same. I am very curious how Brent can simultaneously deliver 4th & 5th grade instruction to the same class, especially in math where the 4th & 5th grade curriculums cover totally different topics. Does a 4th grader who stays for 5th just learn the same thing twice? If not, how do they ensure the new 4th graders learn what the 5th grader learned the year before? They don't track. Not all instruction is in small groups.

[Anonymous]

OP – I cannot speak toward other DCPS elementary schools except that they follow a set of core standards (measured via PARCC/CAPE). Brent’s curriculum is made up by its teachers and does not follow coherent sequence of lessons. The assignments are not the same between two classes, which leads to one teacher being more desired than another. The curriculum also fails to take into account different learning styles and intelligences. Brent teaches to the “median” student; students above or below are supplementing outside of school, which helps Brent students reach 4/5s on standardized tests (skews the appearance of the quality of the curriculum/teaching).

[Anonymous]

We were at Brent for a decade, for two kids, wrapping up just last year. I agree with some of the above, but PP is painting with too broad a brush and I don't know how to separate out Covid school closure issues from the Brent issues form the DCPS issues when I reflect on our experiences. I never thought that the curriculum was a problematic but agree that uneven instruction was in the upper grades was. Almost everything was peachy for us at Brent until 2nd grade. After that, the kids found most of their math challenge at Mathnasium, a couple blocks away, and we hired writing tutors. We've only heard negative things about folding the 5th graders into 4th grade classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP – I cannot speak toward other DCPS elementary schools except that they follow a set of core standards (measured via PARCC/CAPE). Brent’s curriculum is made up by its teachers and does not follow coherent sequence of lessons. The assignments are not the same between two classes, which leads to one teacher being more desired than another. The curriculum also fails to take into account different learning styles and intelligences. Brent teaches to the “median” student; students above or below are supplementing outside of school, which helps Brent students reach 4/5s on standardized tests (skews the appearance of the quality of the curriculum/teaching).

That is all of DCPS. All of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP – I cannot speak toward other DCPS elementary schools except that they follow a set of core standards (measured via PARCC/CAPE). Brent’s curriculum is made up by its teachers and does not follow coherent sequence of lessons. The assignments are not the same between two classes, which leads to one teacher being more desired than another. The curriculum also fails to take into account different learning styles and intelligences. Brent teaches to the “median” student; students above or below are supplementing outside of school, which helps Brent students reach 4/5s on standardized tests (skews the appearance of the quality of the curriculum/teaching).

That is all of DCPS. All of it.

I think schools do better or worse with this, honestly. Our DD's 3rd grade ELA teacher gives up-to 4 different versions of the homework set to 4 different levelled reading groups. She is NOT just teaching to the median student and I truly appreciate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We were at Brent for a decade, for two kids, wrapping up just last year. I agree with some of the above, but PP is painting with too broad a brush and I don't know how to separate out Covid school closure issues from the Brent issues form the DCPS issues when I reflect on our experiences. I never thought that the curriculum was a problematic but agree that uneven instruction was in the upper grades was. Almost everything was peachy for us at Brent until 2nd grade. After that, the kids found most of their math challenge at Mathnasium, a couple blocks away, and we hired writing tutors. We've only heard negative things about folding the 5th graders into 4th grade classrooms.

+1. We are at the Capitol Hill Mathnasium too, but not from Brent. Hardly anyone from our Hill elementary is there, but there are a ton of Brent kids there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We were at Brent for a decade, for two kids, wrapping up just last year. I agree with some of the above, but PP is painting with too broad a brush and I don't know how to separate out Covid school closure issues from the Brent issues form the DCPS issues when I reflect on our experiences. I never thought that the curriculum was a problematic but agree that uneven instruction was in the upper grades was. Almost everything was peachy for us at Brent until 2nd grade. After that, the kids found most of their math challenge at Mathnasium, a couple blocks away, and we hired writing tutors. We've only heard negative things about folding the 5th graders into 4th grade classrooms.

+1. We are at the Capitol Hill Mathnasium too, but not from Brent. Hardly anyone from our Hill elementary is there, but there are a ton of Brent kids there.

Are you sure that's not a income-level thing? Mathnasium is expensive. Folks IB for Brent are, on average, substantially better off even than there solid Hill ES counterparts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP – I cannot speak toward other DCPS elementary schools except that they follow a set of core standards (measured via PARCC/CAPE). Brent’s curriculum is made up by its teachers and does not follow coherent sequence of lessons. The assignments are not the same between two classes, which leads to one teacher being more desired than another. The curriculum also fails to take into account different learning styles and intelligences. Brent teaches to the “median” student; students above or below are supplementing outside of school, which helps Brent students reach 4/5s on standardized tests (skews the appearance of the quality of the curriculum/teaching).

This. My kids went to different DCPS elementaries, and they learned entirely different things. The math was the same because they followed the same Eureka books, but reading, writing, science, and social studies were completely different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP – I cannot speak toward other DCPS elementary schools except that they follow a set of core standards (measured via PARCC/CAPE). Brent’s curriculum is made up by its teachers and does not follow coherent sequence of lessons. The assignments are not the same between two classes, which leads to one teacher being more desired than another. The curriculum also fails to take into account different learning styles and intelligences. Brent teaches to the “median” student; students above or below are supplementing outside of school, which helps Brent students reach 4/5s on standardized tests (skews the appearance of the quality of the curriculum/teaching).

This. My kids went to different DCPS elementaries, and they learned entirely different things. The math was the same because they followed the same Eureka books, but reading, writing, science, and social studies were completely different.

Hmm, I think this might be a bit of a misperception.

Math and ELA curriculums are pretty standard across DCPS. There is some leeway among schools (and individual teachers) in terms of emphasis and time. Some schools will augment these curriculums with additional work. Some will emphasize writing more or less (as a PP noted, with 15 minutes versus 30 minutes of writing at different schools). But the materials, the standards, the grading -- it's all standardized.

Science and social studies technically have standardized curriculums but the reality is that these areas are not tested and not as emphasized in elementary, so you do see huge differences between schools in how they are approached. In my opinion, the best approach is when teachers and schools find ways to incorporate these subjects into the math and ELA instruction. Consistently my child's best teachers will find ways to incorporate science, especially, into reading and writing practice, or use a science lesson to reinforce math concepts. This is basically the only way you can get substantive science and social studies into DCPS curriculum because the testing and targets for reading and math require a lot of time and many teachers just don't feel they have any left over for these subjects that are not tested. Especially true at schools trying to lift test scores.

What WILL impact kids is peer levels. DCPS schools generally teach to the median student, good-to-great teachers will do some differentiation to help meet needs across a spectrum. But if most of the kids in class are below grade level, that will impact what material an on-grade level student sees. Likewise if there just is not a substantial above-grade level cohort that can impact it. The mix of kids in the classroom matters a lot, especially when it comes to what gets repeated and reinforced.

I don't have a kid at Brent and can't say with any authority what is going on, but the idea that they "teach to the median" is not itself cause for alarm. These reports about rampant supplementing are relevant, but not necessarily in the way people might think. One thing that can happen when say a third to half the class is supplementing, especially in math, is that teacher introduce concepts only to discover half their kids not only understand already, but are bored with them. This creates problems for teachers in terms of teaching the kids who aren't supplementing (but may still be on grade level -- just not doing math after school 3 days a week) and also dealing with disengagement from kids who are getting inundated with math curriculum even outside of school. Supplementing can be a godsend for a kid who is behind, has a learning disorder, or simply loves the subject matter. Supplementing can be problematic for kids who are generally average/on target.