Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.natesilver.net/p/go-to-a-state-school

I don't always agree with Nate Silver but I think he is spot on. I have interviewed several Ivy League grads that came across as entitled and coddled. I have to wonder if other hiring managers are seeing a similar trend.

Agree 100%.

+2
And the entire country is getting a taste of just how entitled and coddled these morons are.

Okay, the morons in our society are the people with Ivy League degrees. Sounds like you nor your kids have one. More likely that you are the moron.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you like impacted courses of 250+ students taught by TAs, this advice is spot on.

This is true. I was a TA at an Ivy for grad school (way back in the early 90s) and remember feeling sorry for the parents of undergrads shelling out $$$ for me to teach their kids (I was a great student, but only a passable TA). That said, I received an amazing education there myself... there's something to be said for the incredible brain power in that environment. And the school's name enabled me to get a fantastic job upon graduation.

But as a grad student didn’t you do your professor’s research? Maybe you were not in STEM but professors are added as PIs to all graduate work. They actually do not contribute to the research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.natesilver.net/p/go-to-a-state-school

I don't always agree with Nate Silver but I think he is spot on. I have interviewed several Ivy League grads that came across as entitled and coddled. I have to wonder if other hiring managers are seeing a similar trend.

Agree 100%.

+2
And the entire country is getting a taste of just how entitled and coddled these morons are.

OP here. Just to be clear Silver only references the protests briefly and has the following footnote indicating he has a pretty nuanced take on them: "I’m going to refrain (for now) from commenting on these protests further, in part because I’ve rarely felt so lost about a news story. There’s clearly some anti-Semitism. There are clearly also some students exercising their First Amendment rights that university administrators have clumsily tried to abridge. There are clearly some students with deep, well-grounded concerns. There are clearly also some students being dumb, spoiled college kids and trying to look cool in front of their friends. And there are clearly some interlopers from outside the universities intermingling with the students. I’ve found it very hard to get a sense for what the ratios of these different categories are or what the situation looks like on the ground."

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m confused by folks calling some Ivy League grads as coddled? Coddled by whom?

by the school. Some elite schools treat their kids as "too big to fail", and don't want to impact their student body average GPA, so they let them withdraw up to the lat week before finals, whereas in big state schools, you can't withdraw that close to finals, and you just take the F or D or whatever, and make it up in the summer. And big state schools don't hold your hand and treat you like you're "special".

+1 OP here. The Ivy grads we have interviewed definitely came across like they had been told they were god's gift to the world. Yet they are applying for jobs with a steep learning curve. Nobody wants to hire someone that doesn't think they have anything to learn, or who will assume they are smarter than anyone who went to a state school.

A students hire A+ students. B students hire C students.

Lol a person who thinks they have nothing to learn is not an A+ student. They are a nightmare. I will happily hire someone smarter than me. But the people who think they are smarter than me usually aren't. Not even close.

You do realize this is a delusion that nearly every reasonably bright person holds. Also, I have worked with hundreds of high-achieving interns/recent grads from all sorts of schools over time. I haven't found a significant pattern with type of school and their willingness to learn. If forced to take a stance on it, I would say I have found a slight trend for the students from elite schools a little more open to learning. If I wanted to come up with random ad hoc theories to explain it I might say perhaps because they are a little more used to being a small fish in a big pond in college than being constantly regarded as the top of the heap. One trend I *have* noticed is that there are always a few people at work who have a chip on their shoulder about elite schools and project all sorts of nonsense on the new employees But the majority of us don't see it (and we also come from a range of schools) and just sort of feel bad for the people who talk that way and try to steer the recent grads from having to interact with those folks as they are not fair-minded.

I have worked with many people who are smarter/more capable than me, including interns. They may know it, but they don't act superior or disrespectful. The people who think they are smarter than me, and show it, are usually not very smart, or at least not capable of performing well in what my office does. I have absolutely seen a pattern among Ivy grads. It may be because where I work is a place many Ivy grads see as being below them, despite it being interesting work with decent pay. It's not something I am "projecting" - it's something that for example, every single person on an interview panel noticed about a particular candidate. It's people in high level leadership positions that are universally disliked because of how they treat the people they are supposed to be leading. Maybe they would be better leaders if they worked somewhere with more people they considered to be their equals. But since they don't, they do terribly.

So how many examples are you making this more generalized reasoning from??? There's going to be arrogant folks from all sorts of life. No need to link it to notions about "elite schools."

You really don't see how arrogance might be something that occurs at a higher rate among people who went to "elite schools"? Lol

I'm basing it on my direct experience: I have worked with hundreds of interns/grads and don't recognize the trends others are talking about--and my colleagues don't either. We give evaluations to all these people that include things like collaboration skills, learning from feedback, contribution to the team (rated by other team members) etc. and there aren't number trends that align with that bias either.

Okay? You don't see the trends, other people do. Nobody has done a real study on this so we'll never know.

But not only do I not see the trends, I don't trust that other people can do in an unbiased way based on more than their preconceived notions and a couple of experiences that they also see through their particular filter. Not to mention whether explicit agendas fit into the mix for some folks as some of the posts seem to suggest.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

what no?

Let me school you a bit. Go to your chart. Check the X axis. The scale of the chart is designed to make it seem as if there are big differences amongst the scores, but the average score for all races is some form of 700. At Harvard, they taught us (even the minorities) how to discern lies backed by stats and charts.

NP--Exactly. The difference between the average score for those of Asian descent (around 770) and those of African descent (around 720) is the difference between the 99th percentile and the 98th percentile. Even Mensa takes the top 2%.

I bet if you show both sections of the SAT, the difference would be wider.

Both would still be 95th percentile and above.

1400 is very different than 1600

How so?

200 point difference. That's a lot. You can't tell me that you find a 1400 as equally impressive as 1600. The median SAT scores for top tier colleges used to be > 1400. Those colleges even see the difference.

We aren’t comparing 1400 and 1600 here. Average black score according to chart is 1440 average white score is 1480. So 1440 and 1480.

and Asian score is 1550, but as the Harvard case shows, the rate of their admissions is far lower than that of Blacks.

And yet, when I walk around the elite campuses, somehow I still don’t see that many “Blacks”!

Because they don't apply in great numbers.



If you want to talk about quota, it seems to me that Harvard has been admitting a higher % of Blacks from that group's applicant pool than Asians, by quite a lot.

A chart through 2013?

A lot has changed since then. See SCOTUS ruling around June 2023.

This aside, there are many academically qualified black students who should be admitted to Harvard and other highly selective schools. I'll defer to others to make the zero-sum arguments primarily based on standardized test scores.

? it was good enough to present to SCOTUS in the Harvard case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am getting from this that the white folks are mad at “DEI”. It cannot be that elite anymore now that the browns and the blacks are getting in. All that riff raff ! Let us hire our own folks from the top public universities!

🤦‍♀️

Someone has sense and sees the truth!

What about Asian American folks?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m confused by folks calling some Ivy League grads as coddled? Coddled by whom?

by the school. Some elite schools treat their kids as "too big to fail", and don't want to impact their student body average GPA, so they let them withdraw up to the lat week before finals, whereas in big state schools, you can't withdraw that close to finals, and you just take the F or D or whatever, and make it up in the summer. And big state schools don't hold your hand and treat you like you're "special".

+1 OP here. The Ivy grads we have interviewed definitely came across like they had been told they were god's gift to the world. Yet they are applying for jobs with a steep learning curve. Nobody wants to hire someone that doesn't think they have anything to learn, or who will assume they are smarter than anyone who went to a state school.

A students hire A+ students. B students hire C students.

Lol a person who thinks they have nothing to learn is not an A+ student. They are a nightmare. I will happily hire someone smarter than me. But the people who think they are smarter than me usually aren't. Not even close.

You do realize this is a delusion that nearly every reasonably bright person holds. Also, I have worked with hundreds of high-achieving interns/recent grads from all sorts of schools over time. I haven't found a significant pattern with type of school and their willingness to learn. If forced to take a stance on it, I would say I have found a slight trend for the students from elite schools a little more open to learning. If I wanted to come up with random ad hoc theories to explain it I might say perhaps because they are a little more used to being a small fish in a big pond in college than being constantly regarded as the top of the heap. One trend I *have* noticed is that there are always a few people at work who have a chip on their shoulder about elite schools and project all sorts of nonsense on the new employees But the majority of us don't see it (and we also come from a range of schools) and just sort of feel bad for the people who talk that way and try to steer the recent grads from having to interact with those folks as they are not fair-minded.

I have worked with many people who are smarter/more capable than me, including interns. They may know it, but they don't act superior or disrespectful. The people who think they are smarter than me, and show it, are usually not very smart, or at least not capable of performing well in what my office does. I have absolutely seen a pattern among Ivy grads. It may be because where I work is a place many Ivy grads see as being below them, despite it being interesting work with decent pay. It's not something I am "projecting" - it's something that for example, every single person on an interview panel noticed about a particular candidate. It's people in high level leadership positions that are universally disliked because of how they treat the people they are supposed to be leading. Maybe they would be better leaders if they worked somewhere with more people they considered to be their equals. But since they don't, they do terribly.

So how many examples are you making this more generalized reasoning from??? There's going to be arrogant folks from all sorts of life. No need to link it to notions about "elite schools."

You really don't see how arrogance might be something that occurs at a higher rate among people who went to "elite schools"? Lol

I'm basing it on my direct experience: I have worked with hundreds of interns/grads and don't recognize the trends others are talking about--and my colleagues don't either. We give evaluations to all these people that include things like collaboration skills, learning from feedback, contribution to the team (rated by other team members) etc. and there aren't number trends that align with that bias either.

Okay? You don't see the trends, other people do. Nobody has done a real study on this so we'll never know.

But not only do I not see the trends, I don't trust that other people can do in an unbiased way based on more than their preconceived notions and a couple of experiences that they also see through their particular filter. Not to mention whether explicit agendas fit into the mix for some folks as some of the posts seem to suggest.

In other words you believe you know the truth and people who see things differently are wrong. Maybe you just don't mind arrogance because you are pretty arrogant yourself. And maybe that works in your field. It does not come across well in mine.

[Anonymous]

I think there's a small degree of truth to what Silver is saying but I also don't feel he's being honest either. He's too bright to believe many of the claims listed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m confused by folks calling some Ivy League grads as coddled? Coddled by whom?

by the school. Some elite schools treat their kids as "too big to fail", and don't want to impact their student body average GPA, so they let them withdraw up to the lat week before finals, whereas in big state schools, you can't withdraw that close to finals, and you just take the F or D or whatever, and make it up in the summer. And big state schools don't hold your hand and treat you like you're "special".

+1 OP here. The Ivy grads we have interviewed definitely came across like they had been told they were god's gift to the world. Yet they are applying for jobs with a steep learning curve. Nobody wants to hire someone that doesn't think they have anything to learn, or who will assume they are smarter than anyone who went to a state school.

A students hire A+ students. B students hire C students.

Lol a person who thinks they have nothing to learn is not an A+ student. They are a nightmare. I will happily hire someone smarter than me. But the people who think they are smarter than me usually aren't. Not even close.

You do realize this is a delusion that nearly every reasonably bright person holds. Also, I have worked with hundreds of high-achieving interns/recent grads from all sorts of schools over time. I haven't found a significant pattern with type of school and their willingness to learn. If forced to take a stance on it, I would say I have found a slight trend for the students from elite schools a little more open to learning. If I wanted to come up with random ad hoc theories to explain it I might say perhaps because they are a little more used to being a small fish in a big pond in college than being constantly regarded as the top of the heap. One trend I *have* noticed is that there are always a few people at work who have a chip on their shoulder about elite schools and project all sorts of nonsense on the new employees But the majority of us don't see it (and we also come from a range of schools) and just sort of feel bad for the people who talk that way and try to steer the recent grads from having to interact with those folks as they are not fair-minded.

I have worked with many people who are smarter/more capable than me, including interns. They may know it, but they don't act superior or disrespectful. The people who think they are smarter than me, and show it, are usually not very smart, or at least not capable of performing well in what my office does. I have absolutely seen a pattern among Ivy grads. It may be because where I work is a place many Ivy grads see as being below them, despite it being interesting work with decent pay. It's not something I am "projecting" - it's something that for example, every single person on an interview panel noticed about a particular candidate. It's people in high level leadership positions that are universally disliked because of how they treat the people they are supposed to be leading. Maybe they would be better leaders if they worked somewhere with more people they considered to be their equals. But since they don't, they do terribly.

So how many examples are you making this more generalized reasoning from??? There's going to be arrogant folks from all sorts of life. No need to link it to notions about "elite schools."

You really don't see how arrogance might be something that occurs at a higher rate among people who went to "elite schools"? Lol

I'm basing it on my direct experience: I have worked with hundreds of interns/grads and don't recognize the trends others are talking about--and my colleagues don't either. We give evaluations to all these people that include things like collaboration skills, learning from feedback, contribution to the team (rated by other team members) etc. and there aren't number trends that align with that bias either.

Okay? You don't see the trends, other people do. Nobody has done a real study on this so we'll never know.

But not only do I not see the trends, I don't trust that other people can do in an unbiased way based on more than their preconceived notions and a couple of experiences that they also see through their particular filter. Not to mention whether explicit agendas fit into the mix for some folks as some of the posts seem to suggest.

In other words you believe you know the truth and people who see things differently are wrong. Maybe you just don't mind arrogance because you are pretty arrogant yourself. And maybe that works in your field. It does not come across well in mine.

No, I believe that I cannot see the trends--I claim there is no discernible relationship between individual's willingness to learn/take feedback and school trends--and I don't trust that others can either. Because it's something that is very hard to see as an individual. I think of that as an appropriately humble stance.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m confused by folks calling some Ivy League grads as coddled? Coddled by whom?

by the school. Some elite schools treat their kids as "too big to fail", and don't want to impact their student body average GPA, so they let them withdraw up to the lat week before finals, whereas in big state schools, you can't withdraw that close to finals, and you just take the F or D or whatever, and make it up in the summer. And big state schools don't hold your hand and treat you like you're "special".

+1 OP here. The Ivy grads we have interviewed definitely came across like they had been told they were god's gift to the world. Yet they are applying for jobs with a steep learning curve. Nobody wants to hire someone that doesn't think they have anything to learn, or who will assume they are smarter than anyone who went to a state school.

A students hire A+ students. B students hire C students.

Lol a person who thinks they have nothing to learn is not an A+ student. They are a nightmare. I will happily hire someone smarter than me. But the people who think they are smarter than me usually aren't. Not even close.

You do realize this is a delusion that nearly every reasonably bright person holds. Also, I have worked with hundreds of high-achieving interns/recent grads from all sorts of schools over time. I haven't found a significant pattern with type of school and their willingness to learn. If forced to take a stance on it, I would say I have found a slight trend for the students from elite schools a little more open to learning. If I wanted to come up with random ad hoc theories to explain it I might say perhaps because they are a little more used to being a small fish in a big pond in college than being constantly regarded as the top of the heap. One trend I *have* noticed is that there are always a few people at work who have a chip on their shoulder about elite schools and project all sorts of nonsense on the new employees But the majority of us don't see it (and we also come from a range of schools) and just sort of feel bad for the people who talk that way and try to steer the recent grads from having to interact with those folks as they are not fair-minded.

I have worked with many people who are smarter/more capable than me, including interns. They may know it, but they don't act superior or disrespectful. The people who think they are smarter than me, and show it, are usually not very smart, or at least not capable of performing well in what my office does. I have absolutely seen a pattern among Ivy grads. It may be because where I work is a place many Ivy grads see as being below them, despite it being interesting work with decent pay. It's not something I am "projecting" - it's something that for example, every single person on an interview panel noticed about a particular candidate. It's people in high level leadership positions that are universally disliked because of how they treat the people they are supposed to be leading. Maybe they would be better leaders if they worked somewhere with more people they considered to be their equals. But since they don't, they do terribly.

So how many examples are you making this more generalized reasoning from??? There's going to be arrogant folks from all sorts of life. No need to link it to notions about "elite schools."

Agree. The pp sounds dumb

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m confused by folks calling some Ivy League grads as coddled? Coddled by whom?

by the school. Some elite schools treat their kids as "too big to fail", and don't want to impact their student body average GPA, so they let them withdraw up to the lat week before finals, whereas in big state schools, you can't withdraw that close to finals, and you just take the F or D or whatever, and make it up in the summer. And big state schools don't hold your hand and treat you like you're "special".

+1 OP here. The Ivy grads we have interviewed definitely came across like they had been told they were god's gift to the world. Yet they are applying for jobs with a steep learning curve. Nobody wants to hire someone that doesn't think they have anything to learn, or who will assume they are smarter than anyone who went to a state school.

A students hire A+ students. B students hire C students.

Lol a person who thinks they have nothing to learn is not an A+ student. They are a nightmare. I will happily hire someone smarter than me. But the people who think they are smarter than me usually aren't. Not even close.

You do realize this is a delusion that nearly every reasonably bright person holds. Also, I have worked with hundreds of high-achieving interns/recent grads from all sorts of schools over time. I haven't found a significant pattern with type of school and their willingness to learn. If forced to take a stance on it, I would say I have found a slight trend for the students from elite schools a little more open to learning. If I wanted to come up with random ad hoc theories to explain it I might say perhaps because they are a little more used to being a small fish in a big pond in college than being constantly regarded as the top of the heap. One trend I *have* noticed is that there are always a few people at work who have a chip on their shoulder about elite schools and project all sorts of nonsense on the new employees But the majority of us don't see it (and we also come from a range of schools) and just sort of feel bad for the people who talk that way and try to steer the recent grads from having to interact with those folks as they are not fair-minded.

I have worked with many people who are smarter/more capable than me, including interns. They may know it, but they don't act superior or disrespectful. The people who think they are smarter than me, and show it, are usually not very smart, or at least not capable of performing well in what my office does. I have absolutely seen a pattern among Ivy grads. It may be because where I work is a place many Ivy grads see as being below them, despite it being interesting work with decent pay. It's not something I am "projecting" - it's something that for example, every single person on an interview panel noticed about a particular candidate. It's people in high level leadership positions that are universally disliked because of how they treat the people they are supposed to be leading. Maybe they would be better leaders if they worked somewhere with more people they considered to be their equals. But since they don't, they do terribly.

So how many examples are you making this more generalized reasoning from??? There's going to be arrogant folks from all sorts of life. No need to link it to notions about "elite schools."

You really don't see how arrogance might be something that occurs at a higher rate among people who went to "elite schools"? Lol

I'm basing it on my direct experience: I have worked with hundreds of interns/grads and don't recognize the trends others are talking about--and my colleagues don't either. We give evaluations to all these people that include things like collaboration skills, learning from feedback, contribution to the team (rated by other team members) etc. and there aren't number trends that align with that bias either.

Okay? You don't see the trends, other people do. Nobody has done a real study on this so we'll never know.

But not only do I not see the trends, I don't trust that other people can do in an unbiased way based on more than their preconceived notions and a couple of experiences that they also see through their particular filter. Not to mention whether explicit agendas fit into the mix for some folks as some of the posts seem to suggest.

In other words you believe you know the truth and people who see things differently are wrong. Maybe you just don't mind arrogance because you are pretty arrogant yourself. And maybe that works in your field. It does not come across well in mine.

No, I believe that I cannot see the trends--I claim there is no discernible relationship between individual's willingness to learn/take feedback and school trends--and I don't trust that others can either. Because it's something that is very hard to see as an individual. I think of that as an appropriately humble stance.

In other words, you have an opinion on this (that there is no trend), you think people who think there is a trend are wrong, yet you think you are being "appropriately humble"? I think I can see where the disconnect is between you and me.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m confused by folks calling some Ivy League grads as coddled? Coddled by whom?

by the school. Some elite schools treat their kids as "too big to fail", and don't want to impact their student body average GPA, so they let them withdraw up to the lat week before finals, whereas in big state schools, you can't withdraw that close to finals, and you just take the F or D or whatever, and make it up in the summer. And big state schools don't hold your hand and treat you like you're "special".

+1 OP here. The Ivy grads we have interviewed definitely came across like they had been told they were god's gift to the world. Yet they are applying for jobs with a steep learning curve. Nobody wants to hire someone that doesn't think they have anything to learn, or who will assume they are smarter than anyone who went to a state school.

A students hire A+ students. B students hire C students.

Lol a person who thinks they have nothing to learn is not an A+ student. They are a nightmare. I will happily hire someone smarter than me. But the people who think they are smarter than me usually aren't. Not even close.

You do realize this is a delusion that nearly every reasonably bright person holds. Also, I have worked with hundreds of high-achieving interns/recent grads from all sorts of schools over time. I haven't found a significant pattern with type of school and their willingness to learn. If forced to take a stance on it, I would say I have found a slight trend for the students from elite schools a little more open to learning. If I wanted to come up with random ad hoc theories to explain it I might say perhaps because they are a little more used to being a small fish in a big pond in college than being constantly regarded as the top of the heap. One trend I *have* noticed is that there are always a few people at work who have a chip on their shoulder about elite schools and project all sorts of nonsense on the new employees But the majority of us don't see it (and we also come from a range of schools) and just sort of feel bad for the people who talk that way and try to steer the recent grads from having to interact with those folks as they are not fair-minded.

I have worked with many people who are smarter/more capable than me, including interns. They may know it, but they don't act superior or disrespectful. The people who think they are smarter than me, and show it, are usually not very smart, or at least not capable of performing well in what my office does. I have absolutely seen a pattern among Ivy grads. It may be because where I work is a place many Ivy grads see as being below them, despite it being interesting work with decent pay. It's not something I am "projecting" - it's something that for example, every single person on an interview panel noticed about a particular candidate. It's people in high level leadership positions that are universally disliked because of how they treat the people they are supposed to be leading. Maybe they would be better leaders if they worked somewhere with more people they considered to be their equals. But since they don't, they do terribly.

So how many examples are you making this more generalized reasoning from??? There's going to be arrogant folks from all sorts of life. No need to link it to notions about "elite schools."

You really don't see how arrogance might be something that occurs at a higher rate among people who went to "elite schools"? Lol

I'm basing it on my direct experience: I have worked with hundreds of interns/grads and don't recognize the trends others are talking about--and my colleagues don't either. We give evaluations to all these people that include things like collaboration skills, learning from feedback, contribution to the team (rated by other team members) etc. and there aren't number trends that align with that bias either.

Okay? You don't see the trends, other people do. Nobody has done a real study on this so we'll never know.

But not only do I not see the trends, I don't trust that other people can do in an unbiased way based on more than their preconceived notions and a couple of experiences that they also see through their particular filter. Not to mention whether explicit agendas fit into the mix for some folks as some of the posts seem to suggest.

In other words you believe you know the truth and people who see things differently are wrong. Maybe you just don't mind arrogance because you are pretty arrogant yourself. And maybe that works in your field. It does not come across well in mine.

No, I believe that I cannot see the trends--I claim there is no discernible relationship between individual's willingness to learn/take feedback and school trends--and I don't trust that others can either. Because it's something that is very hard to see as an individual. I think of that as an appropriately humble stance.

In other words, you have an opinion on this (that there is no trend), you think people who think there is a trend are wrong, yet you think you are being "appropriately humble"? I think I can see where the disconnect is between you and me.

I just doubt that reflecting on the few people you encounter represents a trend no matter what--and I think that's a more humble position--recognizing the limits of what any person can know based on their limited experience and their biased brain. The null hypothesis so to speak would be that there is no difference between people no matter what school they go to--that people are people and they vary in arrogance based on a wide range of factors. You're the one asserting a hypothesis that the type of school you go to makes a difference and you haven't provided much evidence to support that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.natesilver.net/p/go-to-a-state-school

I don't always agree with Nate Silver but I think he is spot on. I have interviewed several Ivy League grads that came across as entitled and coddled. I have to wonder if other hiring managers are seeing a similar trend.

Agree 100%.

+2
And the entire country is getting a taste of just how entitled and coddled these morons are.

And, unfortunately, we are getting a taste of what a major hater you are.

Get some help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.natesilver.net/p/go-to-a-state-school

I don't always agree with Nate Silver but I think he is spot on. I have interviewed several Ivy League grads that came across as entitled and coddled. I have to wonder if other hiring managers are seeing a similar trend.

Agree 100%.

+2
And the entire country is getting a taste of just how entitled and coddled these morons are.

And, unfortunately, we are getting a taste of what a major hater you are.

Get some help.

+1

I never realized the level of hatred towards Ivy grads until I read this forum. No wonder they refuse or evade telling people where they went to school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m confused by folks calling some Ivy League grads as coddled? Coddled by whom?

by the school. Some elite schools treat their kids as "too big to fail", and don't want to impact their student body average GPA, so they let them withdraw up to the lat week before finals, whereas in big state schools, you can't withdraw that close to finals, and you just take the F or D or whatever, and make it up in the summer. And big state schools don't hold your hand and treat you like you're "special".

+1 OP here. The Ivy grads we have interviewed definitely came across like they had been told they were god's gift to the world. Yet they are applying for jobs with a steep learning curve. Nobody wants to hire someone that doesn't think they have anything to learn, or who will assume they are smarter than anyone who went to a state school.

A students hire A+ students. B students hire C students.

Lol a person who thinks they have nothing to learn is not an A+ student. They are a nightmare. I will happily hire someone smarter than me. But the people who think they are smarter than me usually aren't. Not even close.

You do realize this is a delusion that nearly every reasonably bright person holds. Also, I have worked with hundreds of high-achieving interns/recent grads from all sorts of schools over time. I haven't found a significant pattern with type of school and their willingness to learn. If forced to take a stance on it, I would say I have found a slight trend for the students from elite schools a little more open to learning. If I wanted to come up with random ad hoc theories to explain it I might say perhaps because they are a little more used to being a small fish in a big pond in college than being constantly regarded as the top of the heap. One trend I *have* noticed is that there are always a few people at work who have a chip on their shoulder about elite schools and project all sorts of nonsense on the new employees But the majority of us don't see it (and we also come from a range of schools) and just sort of feel bad for the people who talk that way and try to steer the recent grads from having to interact with those folks as they are not fair-minded.

I have worked with many people who are smarter/more capable than me, including interns. They may know it, but they don't act superior or disrespectful. The people who think they are smarter than me, and show it, are usually not very smart, or at least not capable of performing well in what my office does. I have absolutely seen a pattern among Ivy grads. It may be because where I work is a place many Ivy grads see as being below them, despite it being interesting work with decent pay. It's not something I am "projecting" - it's something that for example, every single person on an interview panel noticed about a particular candidate. It's people in high level leadership positions that are universally disliked because of how they treat the people they are supposed to be leading. Maybe they would be better leaders if they worked somewhere with more people they considered to be their equals. But since they don't, they do terribly.

So how many examples are you making this more generalized reasoning from??? There's going to be arrogant folks from all sorts of life. No need to link it to notions about "elite schools."

You really don't see how arrogance might be something that occurs at a higher rate among people who went to "elite schools"? Lol

I'm basing it on my direct experience: I have worked with hundreds of interns/grads and don't recognize the trends others are talking about--and my colleagues don't either. We give evaluations to all these people that include things like collaboration skills, learning from feedback, contribution to the team (rated by other team members) etc. and there aren't number trends that align with that bias either.

Okay? You don't see the trends, other people do. Nobody has done a real study on this so we'll never know.

But not only do I not see the trends, I don't trust that other people can do in an unbiased way based on more than their preconceived notions and a couple of experiences that they also see through their particular filter. Not to mention whether explicit agendas fit into the mix for some folks as some of the posts seem to suggest.

In other words you believe you know the truth and people who see things differently are wrong. Maybe you just don't mind arrogance because you are pretty arrogant yourself. And maybe that works in your field. It does not come across well in mine.

No, I believe that I cannot see the trends--I claim there is no discernible relationship between individual's willingness to learn/take feedback and school trends--and I don't trust that others can either. Because it's something that is very hard to see as an individual. I think of that as an appropriately humble stance.

In other words, you have an opinion on this (that there is no trend), you think people who think there is a trend are wrong, yet you think you are being "appropriately humble"? I think I can see where the disconnect is between you and me.

I just doubt that reflecting on the few people you encounter represents a trend no matter what--and I think that's a more humble position--recognizing the limits of what any person can know based on their limited experience and their biased brain. The null hypothesis so to speak would be that there is no difference between people no matter what school they go to--that people are people and they vary in arrogance based on a wide range of factors. You're the one asserting a hypothesis that the type of school you go to makes a difference and you haven't provided much evidence to support that.

Wow. You sound just like the Harvard intern I supervised. He tried to make arguments using what he learned in his HKS stats class, but couldn't see the forest through the trees. Where I work this type of BS won't get you far, but I get that in some places sounding smart, even if it makes no sense, is a valuable skill.

We each have different hypotheses based on our experiences. You are arguing that your experience is valid, and mine is not. That's not what humility is - I'm not sure if you actually don't know that, or that's what you've been taught to say to win an argument. But damn. Sounds like the Ivy grads I met and disliked would fit right in with you.