Disney DAS

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Since everyone pays the same price to enter or to get season passes, people try to get the most they can for their money since it is so expensive for most families to go visit Disneyland / Disneyworld.

When you go and see a family of 6 cutting into the line and they have (or not have a family member) with an invisible disability then you start to think well someone in our family has ADHD, IBS, back issues, eye issues, heart issues, anxiety, etc. so if they don't have to wait in line why should I?

They did wait-they had to wait the standby return time, then wait through the LL. And before someone spins the tale of shopping, eating and going on slinky dog while waiting the standby time...the most likely thing the sn person was doing was waiting someplace quieter, or perhaps toileting, or eating a packed lunch because they only eat certain things.

The most likely thing? What's your source on how people spend their time?

It's based on years of experience parenting in the sn community and many visits to Disney with use of a DAS. I don't know anyone (and I know many families with sn family members who have visited Disney) who crams in multiple high sensory experiences during the standby time. They are usually doing one of the things I mentioned, which is why I mentioned it.

So, you have no idea what other people are doing. You, alone, can believe nobody ever abused the system.

So, you have years of experience in the sn community and using DAS, and you came to the conclusion that they are shopping, eating, and riding slinky dog? That is what you think? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

Because Disney said there was abuse why should I believe you?

'Disney' did not say there was abuse.

They did. https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2024/04/11/disney-disability-access-service-das/

No, they were not quoted - it was an independent travel agent. Good try though.

It has been reported everywhere that is the reason why. You really aren't that bright.

It hasn't been 'reported', it's just a bunch of mostly ableists (like yourself) making aSSumptions about DAS users.

You must have missed the family above using their "return" time to ride other rides. Of course it happens, only a gaslighter acts like it doesn't.

You're an ableist, making aSSumptions. You are the issue.

You're a dishonest liar at best at this point, since we're at the name calling stage. Sounds about right at this point which is why Disney was forced to act.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.

I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.

It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.

Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.

They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.

Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.

If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.

NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.

I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.

This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.

In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.

I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.

Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.

What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.

Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.

We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.

And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.

Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.

Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.

And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.

This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.

What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.

(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).

Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.

No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.

As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.

And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.

So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.

I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.

You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.

NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.

Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.

They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.

Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)

My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.

I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.

I'll just add that I'm sceptical that Disney only offers DAS to convince parents of neurodiverse kids that Disney is still an appropriate vacation for their kid (despite crowds and lines and everything else) so those families don't go spend their money elsewhere. It's really just a marketing tool.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.

I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.

It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.

Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.

They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.

Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.

If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.

NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.

I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.

This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.

In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.

I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.

Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.

What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.

Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.

We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.

And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.

Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.

Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.

And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.

This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.

What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.

(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).

Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.

No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.

As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.

And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.

So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.

I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.

You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.

NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.

Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.

They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.

Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)

My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.

I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.

I'll just add that I'm sceptical that Disney only offers DAS to convince parents of neurodiverse kids that Disney is still an appropriate vacation for their kid (despite crowds and lines and everything else) so those families don't go spend their money elsewhere. It's really just a marketing tool.

That is a cynical take. If it's true that these kids can only handle a few hours and 3 rides then it's all upside for Disney. People pay for a full day ticket, use the resorts, but don't stay in the parks long. As for everyone else, they can just buy G+ if they want shorter wait times.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.

I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.

It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.

Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.

They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.

Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.

If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.

NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.

I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.

This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.

In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.

I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.

Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.

What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.

Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.

We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.

And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.

Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.

Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.

And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.

This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.

What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.

(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).

Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.

No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.

As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.

And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.

So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.

I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.

You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.

NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.

Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.

They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.

Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)

My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.

I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.

I'll just add that I'm sceptical that Disney only offers DAS to convince parents of neurodiverse kids that Disney is still an appropriate vacation for their kid (despite crowds and lines and everything else) so those families don't go spend their money elsewhere. It's really just a marketing tool.

That is a cynical take. If it's true that these kids can only handle a few hours and 3 rides then it's all upside for Disney. People pay for a full day ticket, use the resorts, but don't stay in the parks long. As for everyone else, they can just buy G+ if they want shorter wait times.

I'm mean, shouldn't we be cynical? Disney has done everything it can in recent years to capture more and more money. Just consider their removal of free FP and shift to Genie+.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.

I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.

It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.

Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.

They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.

Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.

If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.

NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.

I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.

This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.

In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.

I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.

Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.

What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.

Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.

We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.

And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.

Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.

Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.

And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.

This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.

What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.

(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).

Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.

No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.

As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.

And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.

So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.

I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.

You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.

NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.

Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.

They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.

Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)

My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.

I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.

I'll just add that I'm sceptical that Disney only offers DAS to convince parents of neurodiverse kids that Disney is still an appropriate vacation for their kid (despite crowds and lines and everything else) so those families don't go spend their money elsewhere. It's really just a marketing tool.

That is a cynical take. If it's true that these kids can only handle a few hours and 3 rides then it's all upside for Disney. People pay for a full day ticket, use the resorts, but don't stay in the parks long. As for everyone else, they can just buy G+ if they want shorter wait times.

I'm mean, shouldn't we be cynical? Disney has done everything it can in recent years to capture more and more money. Just consider their removal of free FP and shift to Genie+.

Why shouldn’t they? They’re a business. A Disney vacation is not a basic human right.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.

I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.

It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.

Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.

They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.

Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.

If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.

NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.

I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.

This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.

In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.

I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.

Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.

What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.

Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.

We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.

And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.

Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.

Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.

And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.

This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.

What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.

(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).

Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.

No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.

As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.

And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.

So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.

I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.

You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.

NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.

Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.

They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.

Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)

My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.

I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.

I'll just add that I'm sceptical that Disney only offers DAS to convince parents of neurodiverse kids that Disney is still an appropriate vacation for their kid (despite crowds and lines and everything else) so those families don't go spend their money elsewhere. It's really just a marketing tool.

That is a cynical take. If it's true that these kids can only handle a few hours and 3 rides then it's all upside for Disney. People pay for a full day ticket, use the resorts, but don't stay in the parks long. As for everyone else, they can just buy G+ if they want shorter wait times.

I'm mean, shouldn't we be cynical? Disney has done everything it can in recent years to capture more and more money. Just consider their removal of free FP and shift to Genie+.

Why shouldn’t they? They’re a business. A Disney vacation is not a basic human right.

Of course they have noticed that 60% of LL users are there with DAS. Most of them should be using G+ and now they will have to.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.

I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.

It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.

Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.

They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.

Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.

If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.

NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.

I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.

This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.

In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.

I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.

Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.

What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.

Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.

We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.

And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.

Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.

Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.

And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.

This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.

What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.

(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).

Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.

No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.

As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.

And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.

So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.

I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.

You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.

NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.

Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.

They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.

Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)

My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.

I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.

I'll just add that I'm sceptical that Disney only offers DAS to convince parents of neurodiverse kids that Disney is still an appropriate vacation for their kid (despite crowds and lines and everything else) so those families don't go spend their money elsewhere. It's really just a marketing tool.

That is a cynical take. If it's true that these kids can only handle a few hours and 3 rides then it's all upside for Disney. People pay for a full day ticket, use the resorts, but don't stay in the parks long. As for everyone else, they can just buy G+ if they want shorter wait times.

I'm mean, shouldn't we be cynical? Disney has done everything it can in recent years to capture more and more money. Just consider their removal of free FP and shift to Genie+.

Why shouldn’t they? They’re a business. A Disney vacation is not a basic human right.

Of course they have noticed that 60% of LL users are there with DAS. Most of them should be using G+ and now they will have to.

I keep looking for that number and don't see that the 60% applies to all LL usage. Are people continually referring to Len Testa's post, where he observes rides for a day or two and then extrapolates? His post only mentioned high usage on two rides, not on every ride in the park. Am I missing something?

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Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.

I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.

It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.

Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.

They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.

Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.

If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.

NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.

I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.

This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.

In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.

I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.

Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.

What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.

Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.

We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.

And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.

Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.

Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.

And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.

This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.

What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.

(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).

Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.

No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.

As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.

And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.

So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.

I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.

You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.

NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.

Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.

They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.

Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)

My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.

I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.

I'll just add that I'm sceptical that Disney only offers DAS to convince parents of neurodiverse kids that Disney is still an appropriate vacation for their kid (despite crowds and lines and everything else) so those families don't go spend their money elsewhere. It's really just a marketing tool.

That is a cynical take. If it's true that these kids can only handle a few hours and 3 rides then it's all upside for Disney. People pay for a full day ticket, use the resorts, but don't stay in the parks long. As for everyone else, they can just buy G+ if they want shorter wait times.

I'm mean, shouldn't we be cynical? Disney has done everything it can in recent years to capture more and more money. Just consider their removal of free FP and shift to Genie+.

Why shouldn’t they? They’re a business. A Disney vacation is not a basic human right.

Of course they have noticed that 60% of LL users are there with DAS. Most of them should be using G+ and now they will have to.

I keep looking for that number and don't see that the 60% applies to all LL usage. Are people continually referring to Len Testa's post, where he observes rides for a day or two and then extrapolates? His post only mentioned high usage on two rides, not on every ride in the park. Am I missing something?

Disney isn't likely to publish the exact findings. Why don't you tell us why you think DAS was updated and rules changed? There seems to be some denial in here that change is happening and no attempt to provide any explanation for the proposed changes happening 5/20. If they system wasn't broken, why the fix?

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Anonymous wrote:Since everyone pays the same price to enter or to get season passes, people try to get the most they can for their money since it is so expensive for most families to go visit Disneyland / Disneyworld.

When you go and see a family of 6 cutting into the line and they have (or not have a family member) with an invisible disability then you start to think well someone in our family has ADHD, IBS, back issues, eye issues, heart issues, anxiety, etc. so if they don't have to wait in line why should I?

They did wait-they had to wait the standby return time, then wait through the LL. And before someone spins the tale of shopping, eating and going on slinky dog while waiting the standby time...the most likely thing the sn person was doing was waiting someplace quieter, or perhaps toileting, or eating a packed lunch because they only eat certain things.

The most likely thing? What's your source on how people spend their time?

It's based on years of experience parenting in the sn community and many visits to Disney with use of a DAS. I don't know anyone (and I know many families with sn family members who have visited Disney) who crams in multiple high sensory experiences during the standby time. They are usually doing one of the things I mentioned, which is why I mentioned it.

So, you have no idea what other people are doing. You, alone, can believe nobody ever abused the system.

So, you have years of experience in the sn community and using DAS, and you came to the conclusion that they are shopping, eating, and riding slinky dog? That is what you think? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

Because Disney said there was abuse why should I believe you?

'Disney' did not say there was abuse.

They did. https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2024/04/11/disney-disability-access-service-das/

No, they were not quoted - it was an independent travel agent. Good try though.

It has been reported everywhere that is the reason why. You really aren't that bright.

It hasn't been 'reported', it's just a bunch of mostly ableists (like yourself) making aSSumptions about DAS users.

You must have missed the family above using their "return" time to ride other rides. Of course it happens, only a gaslighter acts like it doesn't.

You're an ableist, making aSSumptions. You are the issue.

You're a dishonest liar at best at this point, since we're at the name calling stage. Sounds about right at this point which is why Disney was forced to act.

You just demonstrated that the label fits you, congrats!

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Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.

I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.

It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.

Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.

They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.

Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.

If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.

NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.

I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.

This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.

In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.

I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.

Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.

What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.

Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.

We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.

And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.

Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.

Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.

And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.

This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.

What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.

(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).

Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.

No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.

As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.

And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.

So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.

I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.

You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.

NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.

Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.

They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.

Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)

My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.

I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.

I'll just add that I'm sceptical that Disney only offers DAS to convince parents of neurodiverse kids that Disney is still an appropriate vacation for their kid (despite crowds and lines and everything else) so those families don't go spend their money elsewhere. It's really just a marketing tool.

Hi ableist! Kids (and adults) with special needs can love all things Disney, also! It's not just for NT people.

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Anonymous wrote:People really took advantage of the DAS program. I don’t blame Disney for changing it.

I do. People taking advantage of it is no reason to completely take away DAS from physically disabled people. It’s crazy to me that someone with like cerebral palsy or cancer or MS or whatever can’t use this service anymore because they don’t also have autism.

It doesn't sound like the new policy removes all access to physical disabilities. DAS is just excluding people whose issues can be solved with a pass to leave the line and return or a mobility device (e.g., scooter or wheelchair) so they don't have to stand.

Part of the problem is forcing people to use mobility devices when they don't need them under normal circumstances. I've seen several stories about amputees who are perfectly "mobile" but who have difficulty waiting in long lines, especially in heat, as the day progresses because their prosthesis becomes less comfortable and more painful being denied DAS because they could just get a wheelchair. That seems wrong to me.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either.

They can get a scooter. There is nothing “wrong” about that.

Huh. You don't think someone with a genuine physical disability that causes significant pain deserves some accommodation? By the way, ECVs cost $65 per day to rent, but I guess those slacker amputees should just deal.

If they’re walking around a park all day on a prosthesis, there’s no reason they can’t stand in line with the same prosthesis. Or sit on the chair/cane. Or lean on the ropes like the rest of us. If they can’t walk around the park all day and can’t stand in line at all, they get a scooter or a wheelchair.
Quit playing the victim here. There are options. You just don’t like them.

NP. By that logic, people with zero physical disabilities who have autism can also just stand in line for hours.

I don’t think that’s true. If an autistic kid can’t stand in line for an hour they may act out or scream or get physical or cause a disturbance to others waiting in line. It’s a completely different scenario.

This. My kid has to eat in a lunch bunch because he cannot even handle the noise and commotion of the cafeteria at school. If he gets overstimulated/dysregulated he may throw himself on the ground and kick. That doesn’t happen often thankfully, but it does on occasion.

In order for our family to go to Disney, we had to pick a less crowded time, select a few must do rides, and basically have a straight forward itinerary to avoid crossing all over the park and having downtime built in. We bought Genie + in conjunction to using DAS and were able to minimize crowd/line time, take meal breaks while waiting for our return time, and get in and out of the park in a shorter time.

I know people pay a lot of money to go to Disney and I appreciate not having to risk a) my kid losing it 80 minutes into a 90 minute wait and then having to give up on the ride and b) disturbing other guests if my kid flails and is upset.

Why are you taking a kid who can't cope in crowded places to Disney? Goodness. Choose a different vacation.

What’s wrong with you? Disney makes an effort to be inclusive. Kids with disabilities deserve to experience the magic of seeing their favorite characters come to life. My son also needed to eat in a lunch bunch during camp, where he gets dysregulated, but loves Disney world. He was obsessed with Toy Story the first time we went, and the castle. He was mesmerized by the fireworks. And all the entertainment was great for his adhd needs - we just have to know when to take breaks from all the stimulation, which we can do in our small family setting. We modify our vacation to meet his needs, but I can’t imagine having him miss out on Disney altogether. I’ve seen autistic people waiting in lines for cosmic rewind, wearing sensory friendly headphones. This is such a spectacularly out of touch comment.

NP What?! Someone upthread told me that if my toddler can't wait in 30-60 minute lines I shouldn't go to Disney either. Don't all kids deserve the magic of Disney? Their lines are untenable for all.

Yes, if you don’t want to wait in long lines you pay for genie+. The same way you pay for premium economy on an airplane. It’s a different than children with disabilities.

We did pay for genie+... the lightning lanes are still 20-30 min long and then you have to wait in other long lines between your genie + rides.

And if your toddler cannot handle that then they cannot handle Disney.

Not really, you can call that ADHD, autism, or anxiety and boom, get a DAS pass. It's apparently very easy. What you can't do is rent a scooter anymore and have it be a disability that qualifies. You don't need a doctor's note or diagnosis to qualify you just have to register for the process and have a video chat.

Also, this is lying. I would never lie about my child’s condition. I am completely honest with Disney about his conditions and behaviors, and they can tell me if that qualifies or not. Shame on people who lie.

And one more point- I wish my son didn’t have the difficulties that make him eligible for a DAS pass. One accommodation on a five day trip to Disney world does not make up for how much harder he needs to work on a daily basis to function in his everyday life. It does not compensate for the impact it has on our family and other child. I wish people understood this and had empathy for families of children with special needs.

This! People are upset over a child with disabilities getting a perceived “perk” over their family. But I’m willing to bet they wouldn’t trade places if they realized the trade offs this accommodation comes with. Want to drop 5k on a neuropsych, out of pocket therapies, calls from the school, IEP meetings, etc. Like my goodness, let the families of special needs kids have something to help them so they can take their neurodiverse child (and siblings growing up with a special needs family member) on a somewhat normal vacation.

What is next, is the PP going to be upset that amputees get to park closer to the store? That is an unfair advantage while others have to walk farther back in the lot. I mean maybe my feet are hurting too that day, so why should the person with a prosthetic get special treatment. Perhaps they should just stay home and order online groceries instead.

(Obviously this last paragraph is sarcasm).

Umm no one is complaining over people with REAL disabilities getting DAS. There were whole websites that told you how to fake DAS. Lots of blog posts and facebook groups too.

No there was absolutely a poster I was referring to (hopefully only one, but maybe more) saying kids with developmental disabilities shouldn’t be going on Disney vacations and that every kid under 10 could benefit from not waiting in line so why should these kids get a benefit.

As a person who a kid who has SNs and cannot cram in a gazillion rides from sun up to sun down, I’d be fine with a cap or limits on popular rides. I’m just disgusted by certain people saying disabled kids should basically not go at all.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. The statement was that Disney isn't a good vacation choice for a kid who is made upset by noise, crowds and stimulation. DAS doesn't remove those aspects. Disney is still noisy, crowded and over stimulating.

And DAS provides accommodations to help those kid still get to enjoy the magic of a Disney vacation. My son can get dysregulated in certain situations, so we don’t push him to the brink. We make a reasonable ride schedule (he does love the rides). He loves interacting with the characters. We book meal reservations in advance (buffets are great b/c there is no wait and lots of food options for picky eaters). There are multiple pools at many resorts so you can pick a quieter pool to go back and relax at. We also stay on property so we’re close by if we want to take breaks back at your room.

So who are you to say kids like mine can’t have a good vacation at Disney? DAS along with other planning measures on our family’s part allow him to enjoy a family vacation, better in some ways than traveling to places are that less self contained and curated for families.

I am sure there is abuse. I’ll trust Disney’s statistics on it and am fine with a paperwork process since we can easily provide that. But to say DAS doesn’t help with developmental disabilities and that it’s not a good vacation for them is just ignorant of how amazing Disney really is for families including kids with SNs.

You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions that I never said. Go ahead and keep debating with yourself, because I didn't say those things.

NP here. You actually did say these things, so the pp's conclusions are logical.

Nope. I didn't. The PP is arguing with herself.

They're not. They are disagreeing with an ableist.

Nevermind the post up thread where I shared my own terrible experience at Disney with my daughter who kept melting down and my view that DAS wouldn't have fixed it. I really hate the idea that families are dragging their neurodivergent kid all across Disney to use them for a DAS pass when the whole thing is nothing but stress to the kid. Then parents pat themselves on the back that they avoided a total meltdown but got to ride a ton of rides with DAS. (Not that different than dragging 90 yo grandma around the park.)

My daughter has had fabulous experiences at lower stress parks like Dutch Wonderland where she got to ride tons of rides with no lines, no crowds and no waits. She loved meeting characters at Great Wolf Lodge. Disney is a cluster these days and I really question if going there is even worth it for anyone. It's just so crowded and stressful.

I don't know your kid and if your kid can enjoy Disney with DAS, but I do not think it's an appropriate trip for all kids. It's a stressful place and not at easy vacation at all, and that's even harder for a kid who doesn't do well with crowds, noise, or stimulation. As I experienced with my daughter, her rigidity was also a huge problem when rides closed unexpectedly, we had to wait for buses and then they were packed, or there was a thunderstorm that closed rides and pools. Really, it was awful for her so I don't put a lot into all these rosy stories of neurodiverse kids having a blast.

I'll just add that I'm sceptical that Disney only offers DAS to convince parents of neurodiverse kids that Disney is still an appropriate vacation for their kid (despite crowds and lines and everything else) so those families don't go spend their money elsewhere. It's really just a marketing tool.

Hi ableist! Kids (and adults) with special needs can love all things Disney, also! It's not just for NT people.

Please let me know where I said something to the contrary. Oh wait. I didn't. Stop putting words in my mouth.

[Anonymous]

I'm interested in this topic because I will be at WDW a few days after this May 20 change. And I'm wondering what impact there will be so soon after. I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Will it only affect people trying to register for DAS after that date? Presumably other visitors will have already applied using the only rules. Will this lead to a massive increase in demand for Genie+ and will it be harder to purchase the day of and will it be even harder to book any LL? If it's going to be hard to access and use not sure if it's worth it to buy in advance.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Since everyone pays the same price to enter or to get season passes, people try to get the most they can for their money since it is so expensive for most families to go visit Disneyland / Disneyworld.

When you go and see a family of 6 cutting into the line and they have (or not have a family member) with an invisible disability then you start to think well someone in our family has ADHD, IBS, back issues, eye issues, heart issues, anxiety, etc. so if they don't have to wait in line why should I?

They did wait-they had to wait the standby return time, then wait through the LL. And before someone spins the tale of shopping, eating and going on slinky dog while waiting the standby time...the most likely thing the sn person was doing was waiting someplace quieter, or perhaps toileting, or eating a packed lunch because they only eat certain things.

The most likely thing? What's your source on how people spend their time?

It's based on years of experience parenting in the sn community and many visits to Disney with use of a DAS. I don't know anyone (and I know many families with sn family members who have visited Disney) who crams in multiple high sensory experiences during the standby time. They are usually doing one of the things I mentioned, which is why I mentioned it.

So, you have no idea what other people are doing. You, alone, can believe nobody ever abused the system.

So, you have years of experience in the sn community and using DAS, and you came to the conclusion that they are shopping, eating, and riding slinky dog? That is what you think? How did you arrive at this conclusion?

Because Disney said there was abuse why should I believe you?

'Disney' did not say there was abuse.

They did. https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2024/04/11/disney-disability-access-service-das/

No, they were not quoted - it was an independent travel agent. Good try though.

It has been reported everywhere that is the reason why. You really aren't that bright.

It hasn't been 'reported', it's just a bunch of mostly ableists (like yourself) making aSSumptions about DAS users.

You must have missed the family above using their "return" time to ride other rides. Of course it happens, only a gaslighter acts like it doesn't.

You're an ableist, making aSSumptions. You are the issue.

You're a dishonest liar at best at this point, since we're at the name calling stage. Sounds about right at this point which is why Disney was forced to act.

You just demonstrated that the label fits you, congrats!

You're still not grasping that this isn't up for debate, Disney is already moving forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm interested in this topic because I will be at WDW a few days after this May 20 change. And I'm wondering what impact there will be so soon after. I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Will it only affect people trying to register for DAS after that date? Presumably other visitors will have already applied using the only rules. Will this lead to a massive increase in demand for Genie+ and will it be harder to purchase the day of and will it be even harder to book any LL? If it's going to be hard to access and use not sure if it's worth it to buy in advance.

That's my question too. Disney is deciding that the system is broken from their perspective, which they can do as long as the parks are ADA-compliant. The current DAS program goes well beyond what is required under the ADA, and people with a wide range of disabilities appreciated that Disney granted them accommodations and have come to expect to be approved for DAS. As a business decision, Disney is scaling back the circumstances under which DAS can be granted, and it will have an impact on those who were outright cheating the system, those who exaggerated their actual conditions, and those who legitimately struggle to access the parks due to a disability. Again, it's a business decision for Disney as long the are not in violation of the ADA. The ADA requires a reasonable accommodation, and regardless of the actual number of DAS holders using LLs, the current system arguably provides a better experience for disabled guests than is available for non-disabled guests, which suggests that the current system may not be reasonable for Disney, whether that is because it creates longer LL lines, standby lines, or hurts their bottom line because fewer people purchase Genie +.

As others have noted, those who are faking conditions or exaggerating to get DAS are the most likely to be heavy users of the LL because they are more likely to spend full days at the parks and be able to cover the most ground. Realistically, many, if not most people who were approved for DAS with actual disabilities that interfere with their ability to stand in long lines aren't the ones who are there from rope drop to close, cris-crossing the park repeatedly to ride as many rides as possible. The hostility exhibited toward those who have used DAS in the past or who plan to in the future seems based on an understanding that everyone asking for DAS is doing it to gain an advantage over non-DAS users without any regard to the challenges their disabilities pose.

But back to your question, from a guest perspective, the anti-DAS people are also assuming that reducing the number of people being granted DAS and reducing the size of their parties will have a positive impact on their experience. The changes should reduce the number of DAS guests in the LLs, with fewer being granted DAS and their party size more limited. However, if Disney's intention or the result of the change is to force more people purchase Genie +, the changes could actually make Genie + an even worse value, with more guests trying to select rides and few popular attractions available at desirable times. I guess part of the answer depends on the extent to which Disney plans for DAS users in LLs by limiting the capacity for Genie + purchasers. IF half the people who formerly used DAS now buy Genie + and another chunk of the population are now in the standby lines (perhaps those who exaggerated conditions and are able to wait in long lines), how is that going to improve the guest experience for everyone else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm interested in this topic because I will be at WDW a few days after this May 20 change. And I'm wondering what impact there will be so soon after. I'm not sure I understand what's happening. Will it only affect people trying to register for DAS after that date? Presumably other visitors will have already applied using the only rules. Will this lead to a massive increase in demand for Genie+ and will it be harder to purchase the day of and will it be even harder to book any LL? If it's going to be hard to access and use not sure if it's worth it to buy in advance.

That's my question too. Disney is deciding that the system is broken from their perspective, which they can do as long as the parks are ADA-compliant. The current DAS program goes well beyond what is required under the ADA, and people with a wide range of disabilities appreciated that Disney granted them accommodations and have come to expect to be approved for DAS. As a business decision, Disney is scaling back the circumstances under which DAS can be granted, and it will have an impact on those who were outright cheating the system, those who exaggerated their actual conditions, and those who legitimately struggle to access the parks due to a disability. Again, it's a business decision for Disney as long the are not in violation of the ADA. The ADA requires a reasonable accommodation, and regardless of the actual number of DAS holders using LLs, the current system arguably provides a better experience for disabled guests than is available for non-disabled guests, which suggests that the current system may not be reasonable for Disney, whether that is because it creates longer LL lines, standby lines, or hurts their bottom line because fewer people purchase Genie +.

As others have noted, those who are faking conditions or exaggerating to get DAS are the most likely to be heavy users of the LL because they are more likely to spend full days at the parks and be able to cover the most ground. Realistically, many, if not most people who were approved for DAS with actual disabilities that interfere with their ability to stand in long lines aren't the ones who are there from rope drop to close, cris-crossing the park repeatedly to ride as many rides as possible. The hostility exhibited toward those who have used DAS in the past or who plan to in the future seems based on an understanding that everyone asking for DAS is doing it to gain an advantage over non-DAS users without any regard to the challenges their disabilities pose.

But back to your question, from a guest perspective, the anti-DAS people are also assuming that reducing the number of people being granted DAS and reducing the size of their parties will have a positive impact on their experience. The changes should reduce the number of DAS guests in the LLs, with fewer being granted DAS and their party size more limited. However, if Disney's intention or the result of the change is to force more people purchase Genie +, the changes could actually make Genie + an even worse value, with more guests trying to select rides and few popular attractions available at desirable times. I guess part of the answer depends on the extent to which Disney plans for DAS users in LLs by limiting the capacity for Genie + purchasers. IF half the people who formerly used DAS now buy Genie + and another chunk of the population are now in the standby lines (perhaps those who exaggerated conditions and are able to wait in long lines), how is that going to improve the guest experience for everyone else?

My thought is nothing will change in the LL. Same amount of people, just more people paid for it vs getting the free DAS, which benefits Disney. But it could be that the standby wait times improve because using the Genie+ system more evenly distributes the guests, and less of a bottle neck where the lines meet so everyone moves along faster.