The Changing Face of Catholicism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

Pope Benedict XVI did, and so did Pope John Paul II. One should also try to judge a religion, at least in part, by what it has bothered to write down: its catechisms, creeds, and confessions.
Catechism 847:
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

I'm not Roman Catholic, but I try not to judge religions by their most ignorant and backward priests and adherents.

See: that was limited to people who don't know Christ. Like tribes in the Amazon and such. AFIK none of the Popes have come out and said anyone of a different religion can get into heaven. Very very discriminatory

An example to the contrary:
Catechism 841
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Really? So Muslims who believe Jesus was a prophet and not their savior can get into heaven? Is that true? I

I'm not saying it's true. I'm saying that the Catholic Catechism seems to teach this.
https://www.vatican.va/content/catechism/en/part_one/section_two/chapter_three/article_9/paragraph_3_the_church_is_one,_holy,_catholic,_and_apostolic.html#:~:text=841%20The%20Church's%20relationship%20with,judge%20on%20the%20last%20day.%22

I don't think it says what you think it does. I'd like to hear from the Catholic faithful here, can Muslims (who don't believe in Jesus) get into heaven - yes or no?

I think it does. The Catholic Catechism is of recent vintage, under JP II, 1992. It is an official document of the church's teaching. I don't know if you've talked to mainstream Catholics lately, but all the ones I talk to are more or less universalists (everyone is saved), even the pious ones. Dante would be bewildered.

I thought you had to believe in Jesus to be saved. If not, well that's good news I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

How old are you now? Why have you decided religion is a crock but still hang out in a religious forum?

I don't "hang out" here, and what's it to you if I did? I saw it in Recent Posts and decided to take a look. Who are you, the religious forum monitor?

Ah, recent topic obsessed poster. Have you tried to unsuccessfully bully Jeff into removing religion from recent topics lately?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

How old are you now? Why have you decided religion is a crock but still hang out in a religious forum?

I don't "hang out" here, and what's it to you if I did? I saw it in Recent Posts and decided to take a look. Who are you, the religious forum monitor?

Ah, recent topic obsessed poster. Have you tried to unsuccessfully bully Jeff into removing religion from recent topics lately?

why would I do that? Who cares?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is OP 80? I don’t know any Catholic priest in America that was saying non Catholics go to hell in a post Vatican 2 world.

In my mind, the face of Catholicism is now getting MORE rigid and conservative in America with the SSPX folks and all the crazy Trump voters who have lost the thread and are willing to trade abortion bans for decency and Christian love for thy neighbor.

My parents grew up in pretty conservative pre-Vatican 2 years but were then active in the post Vatican 2 reforms in their local church/diocese. My dad was a republican for almost his entire life but no longer recognizes the Republican Party of hateful science deniers. But majority of American Catholics are currently voting that way. This, to me, is the most striking evidence that the Church in America is not doing a good job of preaching to Good News to its flock. It’s pretty depressing.

Thank you for this post.

My home town is basically 98% Catholic always has been. The church runs the town and towns around it.

MAGA within the Catholic Church is huge. It saddens me so that the science-denying is overwhelming. And they won't read Project 2025 or even if they do they are good with it. UGH.

OP here.
I am not 80 and I grew up here in NoVa. It was much more rural then as I am in my 50s. That is exactly what happened in my Parrish. I just knew a good brainwashing when I heard one.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

How old are you now? Why have you decided religion is a crock but still hang out in a religious forum?

After all this time you still don’t know the difference between a religious forum and a religion forum.

Why is that?

[Anonymous]

Many high profile MAGAs are Catholic but it’s not the majority of Catholics in America- it’s half and half.

I’m a devout Catholic and I believe that Muslims or other religious people can go to heaven. I am a follower of Jesus and his teachings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many high profile MAGAs are Catholic but it’s not the majority of Catholics in America- it’s half and half.

I’m a devout Catholic and I believe that Muslims or other religious people can go to heaven. I am a follower of Jesus and his teachings.

I am OP. Attitudes like yours are what I was praising in my original post. Kind people are kind people, and I don't thing God gives a damn about what you believe if you are a good person and if he is there and if there is an afterlife. If there isn't, so be it. At least we got to live and that is miraculous enough. Being a good person is its own reward

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many high profile MAGAs are Catholic but it’s not the majority of Catholics in America- it’s half and half.

I’m a devout Catholic and I believe that Muslims or other religious people can go to heaven. I am a follower of Jesus and his teachings.

What about Hindus and Buddhists who don't follow the Christian/Jewish/Muslim god? What happened to all the people living 5000 years ago who followed other gods?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many high profile MAGAs are Catholic but it’s not the majority of Catholics in America- it’s half and half.

I’m a devout Catholic and I believe that Muslims or other religious people can go to heaven. I am a follower of Jesus and his teachings.

What about Hindus and Buddhists who don't follow the Christian/Jewish/Muslim god? What happened to all the people living 5000 years ago who followed other gods?

Currently burning.

I am in my 30’s and was raised in a doom and gloom Catholic Church. I was told all sorts of wild things

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

How old are you now? Why have you decided religion is a crock but still hang out in a religious forum?

After all this time you still don’t know the difference between a religious forum and a religion forum.

Why is that?

Cope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many high profile MAGAs are Catholic but it’s not the majority of Catholics in America- it’s half and half.

I’m a devout Catholic and I believe that Muslims or other religious people can go to heaven. I am a follower of Jesus and his teachings.

What about Hindus and Buddhists who don't follow the Christian/Jewish/Muslim god? What happened to all the people living 5000 years ago who followed other gods?

Currently burning.

I am in my 30’s and was raised in a doom and gloom Catholic Church. I was told all sorts of wild things

People base their opinions on religion from childhood memories of relatives who were dumb. Then to continue in the worst possible way, they ask religious questions on an anonymous online forum. And then they think they understand religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many high profile MAGAs are Catholic but it’s not the majority of Catholics in America- it’s half and half.

I’m a devout Catholic and I believe that Muslims or other religious people can go to heaven. I am a follower of Jesus and his teachings.

What about Hindus and Buddhists who don't follow the Christian/Jewish/Muslim god? What happened to all the people living 5000 years ago who followed other gods?

Currently burning.

I am in my 30’s and was raised in a doom and gloom Catholic Church. I was told all sorts of wild things

People base their opinions on religion from childhood memories of relatives who were dumb. Then to continue in the worst possible way, they ask religious questions on an anonymous online forum. And then they think they understand religion.

LOL! You shouldn't HAVE to understand religion. What is their to understand? People use it to try to manipulate others and bilk them out of their money. Those of you who think there is something to understand are delusional. You shouldn't have to battle and witness- time and time again- those who purport to "know " or be "experts" religion act with the utmost hypocrisy to "understand" a faith. Look at that schiester Osteen "It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven". If that's so, that big phony shouldn't be living in a freaking mansion paid for wit someone else's money because he spins his fairy tales in an appealing manner. It reminds me of U@'s "God Part 2" where they say the line "I don't believe in riches but you should see where I live". If you think there is something to understand, it only means that you are trying to wrestle what you witness into accordance with your beliefs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many high profile MAGAs are Catholic but it’s not the majority of Catholics in America- it’s half and half.

I’m a devout Catholic and I believe that Muslims or other religious people can go to heaven. I am a follower of Jesus and his teachings.

What about Hindus and Buddhists who don't follow the Christian/Jewish/Muslim god? What happened to all the people living 5000 years ago who followed other gods?

Currently burning.

I am in my 30’s and was raised in a doom and gloom Catholic Church. I was told all sorts of wild things

People base their opinions on religion from childhood memories of relatives who were dumb. Then to continue in the worst possible way, they ask religious questions on an anonymous online forum. And then they think they understand religion.

LOL! You shouldn't HAVE to understand religion. What is their to understand? People use it to try to manipulate others and bilk them out of their money. Those of you who think there is something to understand are delusional. You shouldn't have to battle and witness- time and time again- those who purport to "know " or be "experts" religion act with the utmost hypocrisy to "understand" a faith. Look at that schiester Osteen "It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven". If that's so, that big phony shouldn't be living in a freaking mansion paid for wit someone else's money because he spins his fairy tales in an appealing manner. It reminds me of U@'s "God Part 2" where they say the line "I don't believe in riches but you should see where I live". If you think there is something to understand, it only means that you are trying to wrestle what you witness into accordance with your beliefs

DP. Try to focus. Yes, a handful of people use religion to bilk people (although you mean "shyster" and that's from the German). But this thread has nothing to do with Joel Osteen and you're way OT.

You're also wrong about no religion anywhere should have things to understand. But you don't seem like you want to discuss this in good faith, so bye now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many high profile MAGAs are Catholic but it’s not the majority of Catholics in America- it’s half and half.

I’m a devout Catholic and I believe that Muslims or other religious people can go to heaven. I am a follower of Jesus and his teachings.

I am OP. Attitudes like yours are what I was praising in my original post. Kind people are kind people, and I don't thing God gives a damn about what you believe if you are a good person and if he is there and if there is an afterlife. If there isn't, so be it. At least we got to live and that is miraculous enough. Being a good person is its own reward

I think you just invented your own religion, because that certainly isn't Catholicsm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many high profile MAGAs are Catholic but it’s not the majority of Catholics in America- it’s half and half.

I’m a devout Catholic and I believe that Muslims or other religious people can go to heaven. I am a follower of Jesus and his teachings.

I am OP. Attitudes like yours are what I was praising in my original post. Kind people are kind people, and I don't thing God gives a damn about what you believe if you are a good person and if he is there and if there is an afterlife. If there isn't, so be it. At least we got to live and that is miraculous enough. Being a good person is its own reward

I think this sounds great, but people like you aren't going to put your 10% in the collection plate so really you're not much use to the church.