Chuck Todd finally got it!

[Anonymous]

So CT, who I find very smart and likable, has said twice since HRC's speech-- "I think maybe we missed something here. With the Biden pick, assuming McCain doesn't pick a woman, it will be at least 28 years since Gerry Ferraro was on a Presidential ticket, and no woman has been there since. That's an entire generation passed. I think this is why this was such a big deal for so many women"-------- So my point is, um, yeah! DUH. But what her really illustrated was the sexism of the media that so many have complained about. People nitpick about things Chris Matthews and others said, but the absolute worst part was the things that were not said. The discussion of 24 years without a woman on any ticked should have taken place during the primaries, when the discussion about race was going on.

[Anonymous]

Thank you. Well said.

[Anonymous]

But how many years has it been since an African American or Hispanic American has been on a ticket? How many generations have passed? I get that predominately older white women Hilary supporters are bitterly disappointed that she didn't win the nomination or was picked to be VP. But what I don't get is the ire and bitterness directed at Obama. Moreover, I really don't get the Hilary supporters who now support McCain. On Morning Joe this morning they interviewed a Hilary supporter who said she wasn't convinced by Hilary's speech last night and still didn't support Obama. When asked what she will do in October or November when the choice is between a candidate who supports pay equity, abortion rights, the Violence Against Women Act, and women's issues in general and a candidate who doesn't. She was speechless. I was speechless by her lack of response. How is this not a clear choice?? I wish some of the pudits would talk about what is really underlying the venom of Hilary supporters. Its more than just disappointment that a woman (who ran a horrible campaign) didn't win. I wonder if John Edwards (pre-affair) had won, if Hilary supporters would be choosing McCain instead. I doubt it.

[Anonymous]

Edwards couldn't have won. Obama won (and Clinton lost) by purposefully dividing the Democratic base- the two strongest and most loyal constituencies in the Dem Party are women and people of color. Women of color like myself were in the worst position, particularly if we supported Clinton. The harassment from friends and strangers was painful and shocking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Edwards couldn't have won. Obama won (and Clinton lost) by purposefully dividing the Democratic base- the two strongest and most loyal constituencies in the Dem Party are women and people of color. Women of color like myself were in the worst position, particularly if we supported Clinton. The harassment from friends and strangers was painful and shocking.

Feeling for you here. Cannot even imagine. As I white woman, I too was shocked at the unparalleled degree of hostility directed my way as a Hillary supporter.

I think the Hillary-supporters-voting-for-McCain thing is primarily media generated hype. I believe that, after the convention is over (and assuming that Barack brings his A-game to his appearance and speech like Hillary and Michelle both have...), winning the election for the Democrats will rise above the grief in priority. Same goes for the supposed negative feelings directed toward Obama - never forget that the media is addicted to conflict. The vast majority of Hillary supporters strong feelings are about her - and, through our identification with her, our - loss. Not about Obama at all.

And, with all due respect to the other pp, I don't buy into the women vs. people of color false dichotomy. If Obama had come in second, people of color would have every right to grieve that fact, just as many women are doing in relation to Hillary Clinton now. One fact does not negate the other. I also know, at this point in the game, it is possible to be BOTH a Hillary supporter and an Obama supporter.

I am, for sure.

[Anonymous]

But how many years has it been since an African American or Hispanic American has been on a ticket? How many generations have passed? I get that predominately older white women Hilary supporters are bitterly disappointed that she didn't win the nomination or was picked to be VP. But what I don't get is the ire and bitterness directed at Obama. Moreover, I really don't get the Hilary supporters who now support McCain. On Morning Joe this morning they interviewed a Hilary supporter who said she wasn't convinced by Hilary's speech last night and still didn't support Obama. When asked what she will do in October or November when the choice is between a candidate who supports pay equity, abortion rights, the Violence Against Women Act, and women's issues in general and a candidate who doesn't. She was speechless. I was speechless by her lack of response. How is this not a clear choice?? I wish some of the pudits would talk about what is really underlying the venom of Hilary supporters. Its more than just disappointment that a woman (who ran a horrible campaign) didn't win. I wonder if John Edwards (pre-affair) had won, if Hilary supporters would be choosing McCain instead. I doubt it.

This post and ones like it really bother me. As another poster said, the HRC supporters voting for McCain is a completely played up by the press. Yes, they exist, but they don't seem to be as common as the press makes it seem. And, as you mentioned above, many may not truly be thinking through the desicion to vote for McCain. But that lack of thought exists throughout this election - it is not specific to HRC supporters.

Further, I really don't see how continuing to bash HRC (why even bring up how you felt about her campaign?) is going to help those who did support her and are now throwing our support to Obama feel as if we can truly get behind him. We have already been dealt 2 blows (she didn't get the nom or the VP pick). She is out of the race - why continue to put her down? Also, Obama supporters need to keep in mind that the fact that HRC was not even considered for VP is a huge blow, and a much more recent one at that.

[Anonymous]

I fail to see how HRC not being even vetted for VP is a "blow." My big beef with HRC and her supporters has been their sense of entitlement; from the beginning, the conventional wisdom was that it was her nomination to lose. And she lost it. No one TOOK it from her. She lost it. She made plenty of mistakes, missteps, and miscalculations. Period. One can like her as a candidate and still acknoledge this. And Obama was under NO obligation to pick her for VP. There are plenty of people as qualified as she is--MORE qualified, such as Joe Biden--that were vetted. I am feminist and would be thrilled at a woman president. But I think women who take this loss personally are out of their minds. MOVE ON. And if McCain somehow wins bc these bitter, undecided women vote for him, they'd better shut look to themselves to blame when he appoints conservatives to the court, takes away their family and medical leave (just get education, ladies!), and continues Bush's BS.

[Rich]

I wonder whether all the sniping between Hillary supporters and Barack supporters is really a Rovian ruse to stoke the animosities.

I think Hillary is actually in a great position as a senator with a massive support base. both for her policy goals and for her political future. Whether she chooses to stay in the Senate and play a Teddy Kennedy role, or whether she makes another run for the presidency, her opinion will command the attention of press and pols. If Obama wins, women's votes will be a large contributing factor, and Hillary will get a lot of credit for swinging them. If he loses, we'll all be thinking "What if it had been Hillary?"

That's assuming she is seen as working to get him elected. If it looks like she sabotaged him, I think she screws herself. But she, unlike Bill, is too disciplined to let that happen. Cooperation is win-win for her and Barack, no matter what their private opinions of each other. So, unless the Rove brigade in the GOP and the MSM succeed in their "Let's you and him fight" game, I'm feeling pretty up about things.

[Anonymous]

I fail to see how HRC not being even vetted for VP is a "blow." My big beef with HRC and her supporters has been their sense of entitlement; from the beginning, the conventional wisdom was that it was her nomination to lose. And she lost it. No one TOOK it from her. She lost it. She made plenty of mistakes, missteps, and miscalculations. Period. One can like her as a candidate and still acknoledge this. And Obama was under NO obligation to pick her for VP.

Again, how do you think this attitude is helping things? Let it go (as HRC supporters speaking badly of Obama should also do) - these attitudes are not helping the Democratic party and are continuing to create an unnecessary divide in the party.

As others have mentioned before, the second runner-up (esp. in a tight primary race) is often viewed as a prime candidate for VP. How can the fact that HRC wasn't considered not a blow to her supporters?

[Anonymous]

Because she was not the best choice, that's why.

[Anonymous]

I think it's pretty universally accepted she was the right strategic choice, but not the right "partner" for Obama. So he made a choice to pick someone he liked. If he had sucked it up like Kennedy did with LBJ he'd be up 18 million voters.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's pretty universally accepted she was the right strategic choice, but not the right "partner" for Obama. So he made a choice to pick someone he liked. If he had sucked it up like Kennedy did with LBJ he'd be up 18 million voters.

I don't think its accepted universally that she was the right strategic choice at all. To the contrary, many think she would have motivated some of the right-wingers that are not that hot on McCain. Also, Bill would have been a loose canon. There are issues with the Clinton's fiances, especially money raised for Bill's library, that could have been problematic.

I think we can agree that Obama wants to win this election. Common sense suggests that he will do what is best to win. Kennedy believed that partnering with LBJ was his best bet to win. Obama apparently believes that he stands the best chance with Biden. There is no way Obama is going to get this close to the presidency and then risk it due to simply not liking someone. If he thought Clinton gave him the best chance, he would have picked her.

[Anonymous]

HRC supportors I think you all wanted her to be VP more than she wanted it. HRC does not want to be VP, that would make it difficult for her to run again in four years. She is going to sit in the wings and hope Obama fails; making her campaign and platform stronger. The is the type of person she is!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Because you know her? The personal insult to HRC made me want to come back with a personal insult about BO (I have many just waiting). But I am taking a deep breath and acting like a grownup tonight. Please note that so many BO supporters keep sabotaging his campaign by insulting HRC and her supporters.

[Anonymous]

Right strategic choice for running the country? Perhaps not. Right strategic choice for winning the election? Absolutely. True no-brainer, and there are few in politics. The right-wingers just saw a man who is the definition of multiculturalism accept the nomination for President. They are motivated.