This American Life about desegregation in schools

[Anonymous]

I have a question even though it might sound dumb. PG County has many educated middle class, upper class AA families, why have their schools consistently ranked low inspite of the good demographic? I don't want to sound mean but this intrigues me. In real life, I have worked with and met tons of smart, educated, brilliant AA folks who actually live in PG, why haven't the schools done better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a question even though it might sound dumb. PG County has many educated middle class, upper class AA families, why have their schools consistently ranked low inspite of the good demographic? I don't want to sound mean but this intrigues me. In real life, I have worked with and met tons of smart, educated, brilliant AA folks who actually live in PG, why haven't the schools done better?

A lot of those families send their kids to private schools. 75% of the families I know like you described send their kids to private schools (including religious). So many of the public schools have tipped into majority poverty status. It's the same process that happened in DCPS in the 60-80s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a question even though it might sound dumb. PG County has many educated middle class, upper class AA families, why have their schools consistently ranked low inspite of the good demographic? I don't want to sound mean but this intrigues me. In real life, I have worked with and met tons of smart, educated, brilliant AA folks who actually live in PG, why haven't the schools done better?

PG schools where the parents are well off do fine. For example Eleanor Roosevelt is an excellent high school. Just like DC, however PG like many districts has a lot of poor kids and some rich kids and wealth disparities show up in all kinds of way. A lot of this thread has been based on race but if you were in West Virginia or Ohio you would also see this poor test scores, social crisis is really a consequence of poverty and affects many white kids to similar degrees. Problem is too many people buy into stereotypes and miss the larger numbers.

[Anonymous]

Thank you, PP. This explains the situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a question even though it might sound dumb. PG County has many educated middle class, upper class AA families, why have their schools consistently ranked low inspite of the good demographic? I don't want to sound mean but this intrigues me. In real life, I have worked with and met tons of smart, educated, brilliant AA folks who actually live in PG, why haven't the schools done better?

A lot of those families send their kids to private schools. 75% of the families I know like you described send their kids to private schools (including religious). So many of the public schools have tipped into majority poverty status. It's the same process that happened in DCPS in the 60-80s.

As followup, it's partially the lower home values that allow them to do this. An $800,000 home in a good school district in MCPS is $650,000 is PG County (approximate, of course). So they take the money they save on the mortgage and put it towards private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
how is that a success story? Her kids are in jail.

Well, she can't change the past. But she could be on drugs herself at this point and on welfare. Instead she lives in a home she paid for herself, drives a car, in a better relationship, and hopefully her kids will benefit from her new situation as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a question even though it might sound dumb. PG County has many educated middle class, upper class AA families, why have their schools consistently ranked low inspite of the good demographic? I don't want to sound mean but this intrigues me. In real life, I have worked with and met tons of smart, educated, brilliant AA folks who actually live in PG, why haven't the schools done better?

A lot of those families send their kids to private schools. 75% of the families I know like you described send their kids to private schools (including religious). So many of the public schools have tipped into majority poverty status. It's the same process that happened in DCPS in the 60-80s.

As followup, it's partially the lower home values that allow them to do this. An $800,000 home in a good school district in MCPS is $650,000 is PG County (approximate, of course). So they take the money they save on the mortgage and put it towards private schools.

And I know I risk opening up a can of worms saying this, but the PG schools problem is the primary reason that so many Maryland residents send their children to DC schools...using a relative's or friend's address to establish residency. These families are smart enough to know they don't want to risk their children's one shot at education with a questionable or even failing school, but they can't really afford private either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: It's like let's blame them for not taking personal responsibility on one hand, and then on the other hand, let's cripple their chances of making it.

No, the chances are out there. Immigrants are taking those opportunities. You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. AA are sabotaging themselves all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This is exactly what those 1,000 kids were trying to do in Normandy. They cared but couldn't afford to get out

Bs. They cared about education, but they failed all tests at their school and didn't attend? A school is rated failing based on the current failing tests and lack of attendance.

These were not all honor students. They probably thought "hey, if I get my kid on the bus to a better school, the school will do the work for me and turn my failing kid into a better student." The schools don't make the students, it's the students who make the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: It's like let's blame them for not taking personal responsibility on one hand, and then on the other hand, let's cripple their chances of making it.

No, the chances are out there. Immigrants are taking those opportunities. You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. AA are sabotaging themselves all the time.

No, immigrants often come with a set of skills or support that helps them succeed, whether it's a good education or family who will help them get on their feet. There's this huge myth that immigrants are in the exact same position as poor AA's and they suddenly prosper. No, they're not. It's what cold-hearted and delusional well-off people tell themselves so they don't have to acknowledge the actual barriers that keep people from being able to escape poverty.

This thread is sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is exactly what those 1,000 kids were trying to do in Normandy. They cared but couldn't afford to get out

Bs. They cared about education, but they failed all tests at their school and didn't attend? A school is rated failing based on the current failing tests and lack of attendance.

These were not all honor students. They probably thought "hey, if I get my kid on the bus to a better school, the school will do the work for me and turn my failing kid into a better student." The schools don't make the students, it's the students who make the school.

The school was rated as failing for 15 years. It's not like this happened over night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a catholic school with underpaid teachers, no playground- we played on the parking lot, school books that were clearly very used, a school gym from the 1950s and hadn't been updated since, an antiquated science lab (only in high school), 33 childten per class with one teacher-i could go on. There was a waiting list to get in!
If the parents aren't enforcing discipline at home, and the students come to school not ready to learn and follow directions, of course it's a recipe for failure. Why can't majority minority schools be a place were people want to come? If the students are performing at high levels, they will come.

I went to school in Soviet Russia. We were poor. I had one uniform I would wear all year long. Shoes were a birthday present. We didn't have toiletries like shower gels or tampax. We wore second hand clothes from previous generations, like my grandmother's, mothers. We didn't have a car. My parents would save all their life to buy some basic cheap particleboard furniture. Food was hard to come buy, you hand to stay in long lines for a chance to buy some meat.

The school was very modest. We did not have a playground, no labs, no library, no snacks, no field trips, no fancy supplies like markers, just pens and pencils, no fancy posters on the walls. Our books were second hand from previous classes. We also had 30 kids in a class and 1 teacher. Some teachers were terrible. Homework took hours. Yet we didn't have a single drop out. All my class went to college.

This was the not the worst. My mother had a much worse situation after the end of the WWII, when Russia was ruined and poverty was unbelievable. Her whole generation was one of the best educated in the world, they all had degrees.

My grandmother also had even worse. She had to hike 4 miles through the woods to the nearest school starting age 6, they lived out in the country. I'm not even going to go into how poor she was when the WWII started. She was always hungry and sleep deprived. She finished college. So did her generation and they sent people to space and made amazing technological progress.

So I find it hard to accept poverty as an excuse for AA students' situation.

+1 Thank you for writing this so I didnt have to. Except I think I was next generation, as I only went to soviet school through elementary and than to whatever was left of the school system in crumbling country school. Similar experiences for my parents/grandparents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
no minimum wage employer is going to pay overtime. she is working two jobs, one 20 hours a week and one 30 hours a week. Or she is a salaried manager who has to be on the clock for 50 hours a week though she will likely make more then minimum wage in that situation but not much. I know someone who works retail, manager, scheduled 53 hours a week, 36,000 a year. And this isn't fast food - this is at a better retail place. you guys have no clue how grim the numbers really are

You're just coming up with a bunch of excuses why it's impossible instead of actually doing something.

I've known one very poor white woman. She grew up very poor in a very dysfunctional family in the country. Half of her family was in prison, half on drugs, she barely finished school, never went to college. She had kids who went to prison and drugs, a couple of failed marriages. She'd never heard of things like a kitchen scale or a fondue. She was depressed, on medication.

She's been working by cleaning houses. And you know what? She made it. She worked really hard and paid off her home and paid for her car, got out of a toxic relationship and is now very proud of herself. She says working hard really does pay off.

You read details of one mother's struggle to make ends meet by working two jobs, and you meet it with the story of a woman who failed in life and as a parent. Let me guess why the tale of the poor white woman is more compelling to you.

And people wonder why the "work hard" message doesn't sink in with some kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
no minimum wage employer is going to pay overtime. she is working two jobs, one 20 hours a week and one 30 hours a week. Or she is a salaried manager who has to be on the clock for 50 hours a week though she will likely make more then minimum wage in that situation but not much. I know someone who works retail, manager, scheduled 53 hours a week, 36,000 a year. And this isn't fast food - this is at a better retail place. you guys have no clue how grim the numbers really are

You're just coming up with a bunch of excuses why it's impossible instead of actually doing something.

I've known one very poor white woman. She grew up very poor in a very dysfunctional family in the country. Half of her family was in prison, half on drugs, she barely finished school, never went to college. She had kids who went to prison and drugs, a couple of failed marriages. She'd never heard of things like a kitchen scale or a fondue. She was depressed, on medication.

She's been working by cleaning houses. And you know what? She made it. She worked really hard and paid off her home and paid for her car, got out of a toxic relationship and is now very proud of herself. She says working hard really does pay off.

You read details of one mother's struggle to make ends meet by working two jobs, and you meet it with the story of a woman who failed in life and as a parent. Let me guess why the tale of the poor white woman is more compelling to you.

And people wonder why the "work hard" message doesn't sink in with some kids.

Sorry, she's no success story. Good for her, she works. But she raised children that are a burden on our society and cost me tax dollars in order to underwrite their prison stays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is exactly what those 1,000 kids were trying to do in Normandy. They cared but couldn't afford to get out

Bs. They cared about education, but they failed all tests at their school and didn't attend? A school is rated failing based on the current failing tests and lack of attendance.

These were not all honor students. They probably thought "hey, if I get my kid on the bus to a better school, the school will do the work for me and turn my failing kid into a better student." The schools don't make the students, it's the students who make the school.

They are failing standardized tests (not the school tests the teachers give them) because they aren't being taught. I am not someone to blame teachers, but in the case of this school, the teachers were either absent (often psychically) or overwhelmed. The school building itself was falling to pieces. You really really need to listen to the story and THEN try blaming the families. 1/3rd of the school population got on a bus at 5:45 am every school day. So maybe 2/3rds of the school cared less. Maybe 1/3rd cared not at all. That is still 1/3rd of a school who care and yet can't get an education because of a failing school. In this case 1,000 students.

Deal and Chevy Chase High would be so lucky to have these 1/3rd kids.