Honestly, how do you manage dual income marriage with kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both DH and I are in highly intellectual jobs that come with a lot of intellectual stimulations, prestige, fun and stress, but don't pay that much. Think of academics, economist at international organizations, etc. We make about 400k in total, evenly distributed. So we are comfortable, but neither of us can afford to quit - we can't afford the same lifestyle with single salary, the sunk cost of PhDs, and all the fun and meaning come with our jobs.

Honestly this is so out of touch. 400k salaries is not low pay. I’m literally rolling my eyes at you. Just hire more help.

This isn’t helpful. You have to meet people where they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seriously? You stop whining and just do it. I make more than half of what both of you make and guess what? I am acing grad school, my house is clean and organized, my kids are in very demanding and time consuming sports, I have a second job, be both work full time although opposite schedules and we still have money and time left over for traveling out of the country. We do have 2 rental homes but we keep a strict budget unless we travel.

Right…so on any given night you are driving your kid to practice on the way to your second job while calling into your grad school class and fielding maintenance calls from your renters? Do you really think any of that is truly meaningful or joyful? Why would anyone want to live like that if it’s even true? Why are you even proud of it? Way to hustle, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously? You stop whining and just do it. I make more than half of what both of you make and guess what? I am acing grad school, my house is clean and organized, my kids are in very demanding and time consuming sports, I have a second job, be both work full time although opposite schedules and we still have money and time left over for traveling out of the country. We do have 2 rental homes but we keep a strict budget unless we travel.

Right…so on any given night you are driving your kid to practice on the way to your second job while calling into your grad school class and fielding maintenance calls from your renters? Do you really think any of that is truly meaningful or joyful? Why would anyone want to live like that if it’s even true? Why are you even proud of it? Way to hustle, I guess.

Nope. Second job nights are on evenings when the kids do not have practice. We use a rental management company so we do not get any calls from the renters just the money. Yes it is meaningful. I like a busy lifestyle and when I want to unplug go hiking on the Appalachian trail for a few days. It is my reality so I do not know anything different. Yes, I am proud of it. And thanks! I like hustling. Now back to your job making $4mill a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously? You stop whining and just do it. I make more than half of what both of you make and guess what? I am acing grad school, my house is clean and organized, my kids are in very demanding and time consuming sports, I have a second job, be both work full time although opposite schedules and we still have money and time left over for traveling out of the country. We do have 2 rental homes but we keep a strict budget unless we travel.

Right…so on any given night you are driving your kid to practice on the way to your second job while calling into your grad school class and fielding maintenance calls from your renters? Do you really think any of that is truly meaningful or joyful? Why would anyone want to live like that if it’s even true? Why are you even proud of it? Way to hustle, I guess.

I call BS on pp on having a full time job, second job, two kids in competitive sports plus grad school. Maybe they are low wage earners like working at a warehouse, restaurant, retail or office work where she studies while at work. What kind of work has flipped schedules with spouse?

I know ER physicians with overnight shifts but their sleep is messed up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You hire weekly cleaners, you get before/aftercare for school age kids, you make lists of everything, and I mean everything that needs doing on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, semi annually, and annually. Break it up into as small parts as possible. (Eg, it’s not grocery shopping, it’s meal planning, identifying what you need, grocery shopping, food prep, cooking, and cleaning up, these are all separate things). Then you truly split it up. And you let the other person fail if they don’t do it. If your DH wants a date night, he finds a sitter, hires them, makes dinner reservations, pays the sitter etc.

OP here. You are right, if I write it down everything that we do, he is failing it! He simply expects me to make myself available to have sex, to have date night, to accompany him for a trip, whenever convenient for him. If I just quit managing the household, it will all fall apart. He does not even realize the amount of work and energy required from me to organize kids schedules, hire and coordinate helps, cleaners, contractors, pay bills... He even expects me to do our taxes! I think this is a gender issue.

Give him a list of tasks to do. You act like you are doing it on your own and you're not as you are paying someone to do everything. Be real.

Good grief. Haven't we established that it's absurd for a responsible adult to need a task list from a spouse? If she is going to be a manager she should get paid extra.

Paid, it's part of being an adult. She isn't actually doing any of the work. She's coordinating outsourcing. Most bills are auto pay. The accountant does the taxes and the cleaners come as scheduled. Grow up.

You’re buying into the idea that household administration, predominantly undertaken by women, isn’t “real” work and doesn’t take time, cause stress, and require organization because it’s not manual labor. Don’t be that person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You hire weekly cleaners, you get before/aftercare for school age kids, you make lists of everything, and I mean everything that needs doing on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, semi annually, and annually. Break it up into as small parts as possible. (Eg, it’s not grocery shopping, it’s meal planning, identifying what you need, grocery shopping, food prep, cooking, and cleaning up, these are all separate things). Then you truly split it up. And you let the other person fail if they don’t do it. If your DH wants a date night, he finds a sitter, hires them, makes dinner reservations, pays the sitter etc.

OP here. You are right, if I write it down everything that we do, he is failing it! He simply expects me to make myself available to have sex, to have date night, to accompany him for a trip, whenever convenient for him. If I just quit managing the household, it will all fall apart. He does not even realize the amount of work and energy required from me to organize kids schedules, hire and coordinate helps, cleaners, contractors, pay bills... He even expects me to do our taxes! I think this is a gender issue.

Give him a list of tasks to do. You act like you are doing it on your own and you're not as you are paying someone to do everything. Be real.

Good grief. Haven't we established that it's absurd for a responsible adult to need a task list from a spouse? If she is going to be a manager she should get paid extra.

Paid, it's part of being an adult. She isn't actually doing any of the work. She's coordinating outsourcing. Most bills are auto pay. The accountant does the taxes and the cleaners come as scheduled. Grow up.

Sure. But thats if you do nothing extra and just barely live. Kids drs appts need to be scheduled and attended. Breakfast and dinner need to happen with some planning even for takeout and shoppings/cooking/cleaning. Vacations planned. Possibly kids activities or at least aftercare. Any remodel, new furniture, fixing breaking household stuff etc etc

This.

[Anonymous]

OP you both need to keep calm and carry on. Appreciate that you are very very lucky compared to the majority of the world. Yes you are having a lot of stress, but you are rewarded with an amazing career, family and lifestyle. It’s all about yin and yang.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my circles, I see only two formulas work well if neither parent is sacrificing on career.

(1) At least one parent has a big job (or family wealth) that can support A LOT of help -- multiple nannies + pre-school, travel nannies and night nurses, frequent flying in of grandparents to help, etc.

(2) Live close to family. Move grandparents to live-in and help or move close to them for significant help. This is what we did -- left the east coast to move back to CA despite the crazy cost of living here because we had family and decent job prospects here. I see a major different in stress level and lifestyle between my friends who have helpful grandparents nearby vs. ones who don't.

Otherwise, you can certainly do it but it won't always run smoothly and you feel probably feel frazzled.

The grandparents may help with the younger years but it isn’t as good as kids age. The grandparents don’t get involved with the school pta, become the room parent, coach soccer and basketball. You either put your career first or your kids first. It is really hard to do both.

But the backup of family is invaluable- even as they age or can’t do as much hands on, if you get stuck on a flight or there’s a schedule crisis you can call someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both DH and I are in highly intellectual jobs that come with a lot of intellectual stimulations, prestige, fun and stress, but don't pay that much. Think of academics, economist at international organizations, etc. We make about 400k in total, evenly distributed. So we are comfortable, but neither of us can afford to quit - we can't afford the same lifestyle with single salary, the sunk cost of PhDs, and all the fun and meaning come with our jobs.

Honestly this is so out of touch. 400k salaries is not low pay. I’m literally rolling my eyes at you. Just hire more help.

This isn’t helpful. You have to meet people where they are.

in nyc where we are, $400k HHI is tough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You hire weekly cleaners, you get before/aftercare for school age kids, you make lists of everything, and I mean everything that needs doing on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, semi annually, and annually. Break it up into as small parts as possible. (Eg, it’s not grocery shopping, it’s meal planning, identifying what you need, grocery shopping, food prep, cooking, and cleaning up, these are all separate things). Then you truly split it up. And you let the other person fail if they don’t do it. If your DH wants a date night, he finds a sitter, hires them, makes dinner reservations, pays the sitter etc.

OP here. You are right, if I write it down everything that we do, he is failing it! He simply expects me to make myself available to have sex, to have date night, to accompany him for a trip, whenever convenient for him. If I just quit managing the household, it will all fall apart. He does not even realize the amount of work and energy required from me to organize kids schedules, hire and coordinate helps, cleaners, contractors, pay bills... He even expects me to do our taxes! I think this is a gender issue.

Give him a list of tasks to do. You act like you are doing it on your own and you're not as you are paying someone to do everything. Be real.

NP here. I do a lot of what OP does. If I don’t schedule the cleaners, we will live in a pigsty. DH works from home while I commute and he cannot find five minutes to do laundry or HIS own pile of dishes but finds plenty of time to exercise or focus on the more pleasant things that personally benefit him like picking up food he wants to make for dinner or reading a book after dinner (with a mess in the sink). The best part is when I just say screw it and start to wash the pots, he’ll tell me to stop and that he will take care of them. Next morning, the pots are still dirty in the sink. It’s little things like this that are draining and make what’s already a hectic life all the more harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both DH and I are in highly intellectual jobs that come with a lot of intellectual stimulations, prestige, fun and stress, but don't pay that much. Think of academics, economist at international organizations, etc. We make about 400k in total, evenly distributed. So we are comfortable, but neither of us can afford to quit - we can't afford the same lifestyle with single salary, the sunk cost of PhDs, and all the fun and meaning come with our jobs.

Honestly this is so out of touch. 400k salaries is not low pay. I’m literally rolling my eyes at you. Just hire more help.

This isn’t helpful. You have to meet people where they are.

Met the OP troll at troll-land

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both DH and I are in highly intellectual jobs that come with a lot of intellectual stimulations, prestige, fun and stress, but don't pay that much. Think of academics, economist at international organizations, etc. We make about 400k in total, evenly distributed. So we are comfortable, but neither of us can afford to quit - we can't afford the same lifestyle with single salary, the sunk cost of PhDs, and all the fun and meaning come with our jobs.

Honestly this is so out of touch. 400k salaries is not low pay. I’m literally rolling my eyes at you. Just hire more help.

This isn’t helpful. You have to meet people where they are.

Met the OP troll at troll-land

Don’t forget OP’s biggest cheer leader showing support for her argument: a multimillion HHI housewife winning about sacrificing her career to raise the family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You hire weekly cleaners, you get before/aftercare for school age kids, you make lists of everything, and I mean everything that needs doing on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, semi annually, and annually. Break it up into as small parts as possible. (Eg, it’s not grocery shopping, it’s meal planning, identifying what you need, grocery shopping, food prep, cooking, and cleaning up, these are all separate things). Then you truly split it up. And you let the other person fail if they don’t do it. If your DH wants a date night, he finds a sitter, hires them, makes dinner reservations, pays the sitter etc.

OP here. You are right, if I write it down everything that we do, he is failing it! He simply expects me to make myself available to have sex, to have date night, to accompany him for a trip, whenever convenient for him. If I just quit managing the household, it will all fall apart. He does not even realize the amount of work and energy required from me to organize kids schedules, hire and coordinate helps, cleaners, contractors, pay bills... He even expects me to do our taxes! I think this is a gender issue.

Give him a list of tasks to do. You act like you are doing it on your own and you're not as you are paying someone to do everything. Be real.

NP here. I do a lot of what OP does. If I don’t schedule the cleaners, we will live in a pigsty. DH works from home while I commute and he cannot find five minutes to do laundry or HIS own pile of dishes but finds plenty of time to exercise or focus on the more pleasant things that personally benefit him like picking up food he wants to make for dinner or reading a book after dinner (with a mess in the sink). The best part is when I just say screw it and start to wash the pots, he’ll tell me to stop and that he will take care of them. Next morning, the pots are still dirty in the sink. It’s little things like this that are draining and make what’s already a hectic life all the more harder.

This. Even if you give men a to do list, they still manage to only do what they want. In the end, women have to pick up the slack.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both DH and I are in highly intellectual jobs that come with a lot of intellectual stimulations, prestige, fun and stress, but don't pay that much. Think of academics, economist at international organizations, etc. We make about 400k in total, evenly distributed. So we are comfortable, but neither of us can afford to quit - we can't afford the same lifestyle with single salary, the sunk cost of PhDs, and all the fun and meaning come with our jobs.

Honestly this is so out of touch. 400k salaries is not low pay. I’m literally rolling my eyes at you. Just hire more help.

This isn’t helpful. You have to meet people where they are.

Met the OP troll at troll-land

Don’t forget OP’s biggest cheer leader showing support for her argument: a multimillion HHI housewife winning about sacrificing her career to raise the family

For ambitious women, this is the biggest sacrifice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both DH and I are in highly intellectual jobs that come with a lot of intellectual stimulations, prestige, fun and stress, but don't pay that much. Think of academics, economist at international organizations, etc. We make about 400k in total, evenly distributed. So we are comfortable, but neither of us can afford to quit - we can't afford the same lifestyle with single salary, the sunk cost of PhDs, and all the fun and meaning come with our jobs.

Honestly this is so out of touch. 400k salaries is not low pay. I’m literally rolling my eyes at you. Just hire more help.

This isn’t helpful. You have to meet people where they are.

Met the OP troll at troll-land

Don’t forget OP’s biggest cheer leader showing support for her argument: a multimillion HHI housewife winning about sacrificing her career to raise the family

For ambitious women, this is the biggest sacrifice.

And she didn't have any agency to decide to make that sacrifice? It just happened to her?