Markets to Tea Party: You Suck!

[Anonymous]

Well the market sure didn't think much of that Tea Party victory. Dow was down 265 points, and the ratings agencies may downgrade us anyway. Apparently the (wait for it...) UNCERTAINTY of a weak short term patch is not (wait for it...) inspiring CONFIDENCE in the business world.

Ironically, the Dems objective of a long range 4 trillion dollar plan would have alleviated those concerns. So apparently the GOP, beholden to the Tea Party wackadoodles, are the ones scaring the bejeezus out of the business community.

Way to go, guys.

[jsteele]

Obama and the Dems can take their share of responsibility. All the economic reports are showing little to no growth. Taking money out of the economy is only going to make that worse. We are ruled by idiots.

[Anonymous]

When you don't even have all the Tea Partiers voting for the bill me thinks the only people who think it is a "tea party victory" would be the ones looking to blame.

Obama sold out.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Obama and the Dems can take their share of responsibility. All the economic reports are showing little to no growth. Taking money out of the economy is only going to make that worse. We are ruled by idiots.

how much money is being "taken out" of the economy? the budget for 2012 will be higher than 2011. the cut in discretionary spending will be very very small.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Obama and the Dems can take their share of responsibility. All the economic reports are showing little to no growth. Taking money out of the economy is only going to make that worse. We are ruled by idiots.

Yes, methinks they just made the recession longer! Nice going, Congress!

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Obama and the Dems can take their share of responsibility. All the economic reports are showing little to no growth. Taking money out of the economy is only going to make that worse. We are ruled by idiots.

how much money is being "taken out" of the economy? the budget for 2012 will be higher than 2011. the cut in discretionary spending will be very very small.

The population is growing and inflation is causing price increases. As a result, in per capita terms money is being taken out of the economy. Also in real terms, there will be less infrastructure spending (it's discretionary), less unemployment paid out (no extensions were included), less money paid to medical care providers (medicaid and medicare cuts are coming), etc.

Boehner says he got 98% of what he wanted. Obama, Reid, and Pelosi agreed to the deal. If the market is tanking, I guess they aren't as smart as they want us to think they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you don't even have all the Tea Partiers voting for the bill me thinks the only people who think it is a "tea party victory" would be the ones looking to blame.

Obama sold out.

Well on the other thread the tea partiers were taking credit. Which is it? I'd like to know before history judges this period. Are they taking credit for the change or calling this debt deal a loss?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Obama and the Dems can take their share of responsibility. All the economic reports are showing little to no growth. Taking money out of the economy is only going to make that worse. We are ruled by idiots.

how much money is being "taken out" of the economy? the budget for 2012 will be higher than 2011. the cut in discretionary spending will be very very small.

The population is growing and inflation is causing price increases. As a result, in per capita terms money is being taken out of the economy. Also in real terms, there will be less infrastructure spending (it's discretionary), less unemployment paid out (no extensions were included), less money paid to medical care providers (medicaid and medicare cuts are coming), etc.

Boehner says he got 98% of what he wanted. Obama, Reid, and Pelosi agreed to the deal. If the market is tanking, I guess they aren't as smart as they want us to think they are.

any cuts to medicare and medicaid will be well after the end of the recession. and you know that cuts of $25B will not make a material difference to the economy in the context of federal spending of $3.8T. Come on. If anything, the stock market tanked because the cuts were not nearly enough to satisfy the rating agencies.

[Anonymous]

The real driver behind a possible downgrade is the $14 trillion debt we've acquired and the lack of a convincing strategy to deal with it.

Just raising the debt ceiling isn't going to change Moody's mind.

(Although I do think a downgrade is unlikely. We can, ultimately, pay out debts or inflate them away. The rest of the world is not in such a lucky position.)

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:We are ruled by corporate whores.

Fixed that for ya.

[Anonymous]

The markets and businesses react to reality. We cut spending, we reduce demand, markets cut growth forecast-stocks go down and businesses cut cost/employees. Washington think tanks turn out talking points that have no correlation to reality.
Many people have made a lot of money betting against Moody's ...Japanese bonds and the mortgage crisis. Moody's is a joke, look at the us bond market over the past few weeks. Who do you think is telling the truth Moody's, Rush(I did not finish college) limbaugh, and the republican establishment or what is really happening in the markets?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
any cuts to medicare and medicaid will be well after the end of the recession. and you know that cuts of $25B will not make a material difference to the economy in the context of federal spending of $3.8T. Come on. If anything, the stock market tanked because the cuts were not nearly enough to satisfy the rating agencies.

That's an interesting statement. Can you tell me when the recession will end? While you are at it, can I have the winning PowerBall number?

Not only does this agreement take money out of the economy, but it sets of a constant chain of repeated battles along the same lines. Our economy is going to be completely disrupted. I wouldn't put money on an end date for the recession. Just look at what's going on with the FAA to see the future of our country. The government is loosing millions of dollars a day in taxes, who knows how many people have been put out of work, and Congress is going on vacation. We may look at recessions as the "good times" before long.

[Anonymous]

The great society and Euro socialism is taking us down the drain. Everything else is window dressing.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
any cuts to medicare and medicaid will be well after the end of the recession. and you know that cuts of $25B will not make a material difference to the economy in the context of federal spending of $3.8T. Come on. If anything, the stock market tanked because the cuts were not nearly enough to satisfy the rating agencies.

That's an interesting statement. Can you tell me when the recession will end? While you are at it, can I have the winning PowerBall number?

Not only does this agreement take money out of the economy, but it sets of a constant chain of repeated battles along the same lines. Our economy is going to be completely disrupted. I wouldn't put money on an end date for the recession. Just look at what's going on with the FAA to see the future of our country. The government is loosing millions of dollars a day in taxes, who knows how many people have been put out of work, and Congress is going on vacation. We may look at recessions as the "good times" before long.

thank God it sets a stage of repeated battles - hopefully we can eventually get spending under control. clearly this bill does not do that. of course the "recession" is over, but I assume you mean this continued generally crappy economy with little to no growth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The markets and businesses react to reality. We cut spending, we reduce demand, markets cut growth forecast-stocks go down and businesses cut cost/employees. Washington think tanks turn out talking points that have no correlation to reality.
Many people have made a lot of money betting against Moody's ...Japanese bonds and the mortgage crisis. Moody's is a joke, look at the us bond market over the past few weeks. Who do you think is telling the truth Moody's, Rush(I did not finish college) limbaugh, and the republican establishment or what is really happening in the markets?

Unfortunately ratings count when it comes to interest rates. And while Moody's etc. did a bad job with market prediction, this is different. This is a rating of creditworthiness in a relatively known market environment.

I think that a Moody's downgrade, if it comes, will be due to the short duration and uncertain future of the debt deal. First, it does not solve the problem into the intermediate future. Second, it involves incremental debt increases that are subject to overrides, future triggers that could be subverted by the next congress, etc. Who knows whether even this limited deal will be honored next year and the year after?