Why a 300-400k salary doesn't feel rich

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:300K is rich in the sense that at that level you can reasonably pay a mortgage, save for retirement, save for college, pay for daycare, and go on decent vacations. You are building wealth and buying your kids some breathing space, which is more than the vast majority of Americans can do.

It’s kind of crazy that these things are now for the “rich.” I feel like owning a home and being able to save and occasionally take a vacation or 2 should be a very middle class thing that everyone can do. It’s weird to me that with all the resources we have and technology that makes life better, we haven’t figured out a way to improve human life more. Like unless you’re born to rich parents you have to take out massive loans to get an education and may never make it on the property ladder.

No, no, no. Please stop it. It’s not just for the “rich”. Many middle class Americans own homes, send kids to college and occasionally go on vacation.
They own average homes, have modest vacations and send kids to average colleges.

It was never, never and never a time when the middle class could afford to live in the best neighborhood in town, send kids to the best schools in town, and go to the best vacation spots. This was always reversed to the “rich”.

The median home price in the DC area is now about 550k. Higher than it used to be, but a middle class family can manage to afford it.
It won’t allow you to buy a SFH in NW DC or Arlington. It won’t allow you to send your kids to a 10/10 school. But that’s not what middle class means in the first place. That’s for the upper class.

It won’t allow tou to save for college enough to afford private ivy league colleges. But that’s not for the middle class. That’s for the rich elite.
The middle class sends kids to community colleges or public in-state colleges.

I think the only way that's true is if you have a SAHP. Say your middle class family earns a $100K HHI and contributes 10% to retirement and pays $5K per year for health insurance so pretax $85K. Let's say of that $85K pretax there is a total of 15% for all taxes (federal/state/payroll taxes) so $72.2K net. PITI on a $400K loan (assuming about 20% downpayment) would be around $2.1K PI, $500 taxes and $100 insurance of $2.7K total ($32.4K per year). That leaves the family with about $40K per year for everything else. Say 1% of house value for repairs that brings it down to $35K annual net or about $3K per month for everything else. Let's say average utilities (all in water/electric/gas and including cell phones) of $200 per month, groceries of $500 per month and college savings (state school) of $300 per month brings it down to $2K left most of which would be consumed by childcare if both parents work. You still have car insurance, car repairs and either a car payment or a car replacement fund in addition to clothes.

I think your math is a little off; a $400,000 mortgage at 7.8% (current rates) is $2904 plus $500 taxes and $100 insurance = $3504.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:300K is rich in the sense that at that level you can reasonably pay a mortgage, save for retirement, save for college, pay for daycare, and go on decent vacations. You are building wealth and buying your kids some breathing space, which is more than the vast majority of Americans can do.

It’s kind of crazy that these things are now for the “rich.” I feel like owning a home and being able to save and occasionally take a vacation or 2 should be a very middle class thing that everyone can do. It’s weird to me that with all the resources we have and technology that makes life better, we haven’t figured out a way to improve human life more. Like unless you’re born to rich parents you have to take out massive loans to get an education and may never make it on the property ladder.

No, no, no. Please stop it. It’s not just for the “rich”. Many middle class Americans own homes, send kids to college and occasionally go on vacation.
They own average homes, have modest vacations and send kids to average colleges.

It was never, never and never a time when the middle class could afford to live in the best neighborhood in town, send kids to the best schools in town, and go to the best vacation spots. This was always reversed to the “rich”.

The median home price in the DC area is now about 550k. Higher than it used to be, but a middle class family can manage to afford it.
It won’t allow you to buy a SFH in NW DC or Arlington. It won’t allow you to send your kids to a 10/10 school. But that’s not what middle class means in the first place. That’s for the upper class.

It won’t allow tou to save for college enough to afford private ivy league colleges. But that’s not for the middle class. That’s for the rich elite.
The middle class sends kids to community colleges or public in-state colleges.

I disagree-- 30 years ago, middle class could live in a 10/10 school. I don't think someone making $300K today can get into a Montgomery County 10/10 school cluster without parent help or sacrificing retirement savings and vacations.

30 years ago, there were no online school ratings. So families making 300K were spread more across different areas, instead of competing with each other (via housing) for marginally "better" schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:300K is rich in the sense that at that level you can reasonably pay a mortgage, save for retirement, save for college, pay for daycare, and go on decent vacations. You are building wealth and buying your kids some breathing space, which is more than the vast majority of Americans can do.

It’s kind of crazy that these things are now for the “rich.” I feel like owning a home and being able to save and occasionally take a vacation or 2 should be a very middle class thing that everyone can do. It’s weird to me that with all the resources we have and technology that makes life better, we haven’t figured out a way to improve human life more. Like unless you’re born to rich parents you have to take out massive loans to get an education and may never make it on the property ladder.

No, no, no. Please stop it. It’s not just for the “rich”. Many middle class Americans own homes, send kids to college and occasionally go on vacation.
They own average homes, have modest vacations and send kids to average colleges.

It was never, never and never a time when the middle class could afford to live in the best neighborhood in town, send kids to the best schools in town, and go to the best vacation spots. This was always reversed to the “rich”.

The median home price in the DC area is now about 550k. Higher than it used to be, but a middle class family can manage to afford it.
It won’t allow you to buy a SFH in NW DC or Arlington. It won’t allow you to send your kids to a 10/10 school. But that’s not what middle class means in the first place. That’s for the upper class.

It won’t allow tou to save for college enough to afford private ivy league colleges. But that’s not for the middle class. That’s for the rich elite.
The middle class sends kids to community colleges or public in-state colleges.

I think the only way that's true is if you have a SAHP. Say your middle class family earns a $100K HHI and contributes 10% to retirement and pays $5K per year for health insurance so pretax $85K. Let's say of that $85K pretax there is a total of 15% for all taxes (federal/state/payroll taxes) so $72.2K net. PITI on a $400K loan (assuming about 20% downpayment) would be around $2.1K PI, $500 taxes and $100 insurance of $2.7K total ($32.4K per year). That leaves the family with about $40K per year for everything else. Say 1% of house value for repairs that brings it down to $35K annual net or about $3K per month for everything else. Let's say average utilities (all in water/electric/gas and including cell phones) of $200 per month, groceries of $500 per month and college savings (state school) of $300 per month brings it down to $2K left most of which would be consumed by childcare if both parents work. You still have car insurance, car repairs and either a car payment or a car replacement fund in addition to clothes.

I think your math is a little off; a $400,000 mortgage at 7.8% (current rates) is $2904 plus $500 taxes and $100 insurance = $3504.

I think I used 5% as the amount for the rate under the theory that rates are high now but in the recent past they weren't that high and will probably come down a bit from where they are now in the next few years. I think rates are closer to 7% now for people with good credit than 7.8%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:300K is rich in the sense that at that level you can reasonably pay a mortgage, save for retirement, save for college, pay for daycare, and go on decent vacations. You are building wealth and buying your kids some breathing space, which is more than the vast majority of Americans can do.

It’s kind of crazy that these things are now for the “rich.” I feel like owning a home and being able to save and occasionally take a vacation or 2 should be a very middle class thing that everyone can do. It’s weird to me that with all the resources we have and technology that makes life better, we haven’t figured out a way to improve human life more. Like unless you’re born to rich parents you have to take out massive loans to get an education and may never make it on the property ladder.

No, no, no. Please stop it. It’s not just for the “rich”. Many middle class Americans own homes, send kids to college and occasionally go on vacation.
They own average homes, have modest vacations and send kids to average colleges.

It was never, never and never a time when the middle class could afford to live in the best neighborhood in town, send kids to the best schools in town, and go to the best vacation spots. This was always reversed to the “rich”.

The median home price in the DC area is now about 550k. Higher than it used to be, but a middle class family can manage to afford it.
It won’t allow you to buy a SFH in NW DC or Arlington. It won’t allow you to send your kids to a 10/10 school. But that’s not what middle class means in the first place. That’s for the upper class.

It won’t allow tou to save for college enough to afford private ivy league colleges. But that’s not for the middle class. That’s for the rich elite.
The middle class sends kids to community colleges or public in-state colleges.

I disagree-- 30 years ago, middle class could live in a 10/10 school. I don't think someone making $300K today can get into a Montgomery County 10/10 school cluster without parent help or sacrificing retirement savings and vacations.

30 years ago, there were no online school ratings. So families making 300K were spread more across different areas, instead of competing with each other (via housing) for marginally "better" schools.

This. There was no obsession with schools like there is today

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a household income of $250k in northern Virginia with three kids and we are unquestionably rich.

Only financial worry I have is how to pay for college when all three are in college at the same time in a few years.

Everything else in my life is free of financial worry.

Aww. A middle class wine mom pretending she's rich on her 250k.

Honey, let me tell you what rich is. Rich people don't worry about paying for college. Rich people pay 90k tuition checks without blinking or worrying about opportunity costs. That's rich. You're middle class.

Wow, what a snotty response.

And also wrong. 250k HHI is rich. Not being able to write 90k tuition checks doesn’t make one “middle class”. Americans have completely lost their minds about what is needed vs what is wanted and 250k gets you well into the “want” category of consumption.

DP. Sorry but I gotta agree with the snotty response. 300k a year isn’t rich.

It is only rich if you have 1-2M in the bank or via stocks/assets and do not have any debt whatsoever and no mortgage. Then I would consider you rich.

But a normal couple with a HHI of 350k with a 1M dollar mortgage, paying car loans and are making payments on your kids college tuition? No you are not rich. Upper middle class? Sure. Rich, hellllll no.

Feel better?

Why does it bother you how we choose to view ourselves? I posted above. We live comfortably on 250K, with plenty saved for OOS college tuitions and retirement and vacations. Major, unexpected bills won’t cripple us. We don’t worry about money. We feel rich, and we are very aware of how good we have it.

That doesn’t impact you at all, unless it makes you feel uncomfortable about your own spending habits. We prove you don’t need gobs of money to be happy and comfortable.

Call us UMC, MC… whatever. It doesn’t change the fact we live “rich”.

Having a huge house is not a symbol of success if the bank owns it.

And you have to work 40 years to pay it off.

Few understand this.

You still are not rich, despite how you “feel”.

If you’re rich? Quit your job tomorrow and never work again. If you can do that, you’re rich. If you can’t, you’re not.

Eh. That’s your definition and you’re welcome to it. I don’t consider work something terrible. If I were rolling in an absurd amount of unnecessary wealth, I would still work because I enjoy it.

This thread began with an OP saying 300K is “barely getting by”. That’s actually quite offensive to people who are actually “barely getting by”.

It’s just typical DCUM bubble talk. Plenty of people do just fine on these salaries.

Admitting to doing just fine is one thing that I agree with.

But saying that “I’m rich, off my 300k salary” while being in debt to a mortgage, car loans, credit cards etc and calling themselves “rich” is completely laughable.

You’re doing fine, sure. But you are not rich. Rich is not having to worry with any debt or having any loans whatsoever.

Major difference.

DP, but why must someone feeling rich on 300k be in lots of debt? We are 40, 350k HHI, and we have our mortgage (and why wouldn't anyone at 2.7%), but are also absolutely rich. Lots of savings, no money stress, and save so much each year that we are considering buying a vacation/investment home because we don't need to save so much and want to diversify investments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At 300-400K, if you don't overspend on a house and have kids in public, you will live like a king.

In hcol, you will be comfortable, but not living like a king.

We didn't overspend on our house (paid $730K for it, and put down $500K from selling a more expensive property out west), and our kids are in public.

I grew up lower income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:300K is rich in the sense that at that level you can reasonably pay a mortgage, save for retirement, save for college, pay for daycare, and go on decent vacations. You are building wealth and buying your kids some breathing space, which is more than the vast majority of Americans can do.

It’s kind of crazy that these things are now for the “rich.” I feel like owning a home and being able to save and occasionally take a vacation or 2 should be a very middle class thing that everyone can do. It’s weird to me that with all the resources we have and technology that makes life better, we haven’t figured out a way to improve human life more. Like unless you’re born to rich parents you have to take out massive loans to get an education and may never make it on the property ladder.

No, no, no. Please stop it. It’s not just for the “rich”. Many middle class Americans own homes, send kids to college and occasionally go on vacation.
They own average homes, have modest vacations and send kids to average colleges.

It was never, never and never a time when the middle class could afford to live in the best neighborhood in town, send kids to the best schools in town, and go to the best vacation spots. This was always reversed to the “rich”.

The median home price in the DC area is now about 550k. Higher than it used to be, but a middle class family can manage to afford it.
It won’t allow you to buy a SFH in NW DC or Arlington. It won’t allow you to send your kids to a 10/10 school. But that’s not what middle class means in the first place. That’s for the upper class.

It won’t allow tou to save for college enough to afford private ivy league colleges. But that’s not for the middle class. That’s for the rich elite.
The middle class sends kids to community colleges or public in-state colleges.

I disagree-- 30 years ago, middle class could live in a 10/10 school. I don't think someone making $300K today can get into a Montgomery County 10/10 school cluster without parent help or sacrificing retirement savings and vacations.

30 years ago, there were no online school ratings. So families making 300K were spread more across different areas, instead of competing with each other (via housing) for marginally "better" schools.

30 years ago people definitely knew where the better schools were and compared school pyramids and college placements and state school scores all the time. Nothing new there. The main difference from 30 years ago is there's many more people competing for the same supply of housing in closer in areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a household income of $250k in northern Virginia with three kids and we are unquestionably rich.

Only financial worry I have is how to pay for college when all three are in college at the same time in a few years.

Everything else in my life is free of financial worry.

Aww. A middle class wine mom pretending she's rich on her 250k.

Honey, let me tell you what rich is. Rich people don't worry about paying for college. Rich people pay 90k tuition checks without blinking or worrying about opportunity costs. That's rich. You're middle class.

Wow, what a snotty response.

And also wrong. 250k HHI is rich. Not being able to write 90k tuition checks doesn’t make one “middle class”. Americans have completely lost their minds about what is needed vs what is wanted and 250k gets you well into the “want” category of consumption.

DP. Sorry but I gotta agree with the snotty response. 300k a year isn’t rich.

It is only rich if you have 1-2M in the bank or via stocks/assets and do not have any debt whatsoever and no mortgage. Then I would consider you rich.

But a normal couple with a HHI of 350k with a 1M dollar mortgage, paying car loans and are making payments on your kids college tuition? No you are not rich. Upper middle class? Sure. Rich, hellllll no.

Feel better?

Why does it bother you how we choose to view ourselves? I posted above. We live comfortably on 250K, with plenty saved for OOS college tuitions and retirement and vacations. Major, unexpected bills won’t cripple us. We don’t worry about money. We feel rich, and we are very aware of how good we have it.

That doesn’t impact you at all, unless it makes you feel uncomfortable about your own spending habits. We prove you don’t need gobs of money to be happy and comfortable.

Call us UMC, MC… whatever. It doesn’t change the fact we live “rich”.

Having a huge house is not a symbol of success if the bank owns it.

And you have to work 40 years to pay it off.

Few understand this.

You still are not rich, despite how you “feel”.

If you’re rich? Quit your job tomorrow and never work again. If you can do that, you’re rich. If you can’t, you’re not.

Eh. That’s your definition and you’re welcome to it. I don’t consider work something terrible. If I were rolling in an absurd amount of unnecessary wealth, I would still work because I enjoy it.

This thread began with an OP saying 300K is “barely getting by”. That’s actually quite offensive to people who are actually “barely getting by”.

It’s just typical DCUM bubble talk. Plenty of people do just fine on these salaries.

Admitting to doing just fine is one thing that I agree with.

But saying that “I’m rich, off my 300k salary” while being in debt to a mortgage, car loans, credit cards etc and calling themselves “rich” is completely laughable.

You’re doing fine, sure. But you are not rich. Rich is not having to worry with any debt or having any loans whatsoever.

Major difference.

DP, but why must someone feeling rich on 300k be in lots of debt? We are 40, 350k HHI, and we have our mortgage (and why wouldn't anyone at 2.7%), but are also absolutely rich. Lots of savings, no money stress, and save so much each year that we are considering buying a vacation/investment home because we don't need to save so much and want to diversify investments.

What makes you say that "you don't need to save so much"?

Family money? Gov't worker who can retire early with great health insurance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:300K is rich in the sense that at that level you can reasonably pay a mortgage, save for retirement, save for college, pay for daycare, and go on decent vacations. You are building wealth and buying your kids some breathing space, which is more than the vast majority of Americans can do.

It’s kind of crazy that these things are now for the “rich.” I feel like owning a home and being able to save and occasionally take a vacation or 2 should be a very middle class thing that everyone can do. It’s weird to me that with all the resources we have and technology that makes life better, we haven’t figured out a way to improve human life more. Like unless you’re born to rich parents you have to take out massive loans to get an education and may never make it on the property ladder.

No, no, no. Please stop it. It’s not just for the “rich”. Many middle class Americans own homes, send kids to college and occasionally go on vacation.
They own average homes, have modest vacations and send kids to average colleges.

It was never, never and never a time when the middle class could afford to live in the best neighborhood in town, send kids to the best schools in town, and go to the best vacation spots. This was always reversed to the “rich”.

The median home price in the DC area is now about 550k. Higher than it used to be, but a middle class family can manage to afford it.
It won’t allow you to buy a SFH in NW DC or Arlington. It won’t allow you to send your kids to a 10/10 school. But that’s not what middle class means in the first place. That’s for the upper class.

It won’t allow tou to save for college enough to afford private ivy league colleges. But that’s not for the middle class. That’s for the rich elite.
The middle class sends kids to community colleges or public in-state colleges.

I disagree-- 30 years ago, middle class could live in a 10/10 school. I don't think someone making $300K today can get into a Montgomery County 10/10 school cluster without parent help or sacrificing retirement savings and vacations.

30 years ago, there were no online school ratings. So families making 300K were spread more across different areas, instead of competing with each other (via housing) for marginally "better" schools.

30 years ago people definitely knew where the better schools were and compared school pyramids and college placements and state school scores all the time. Nothing new there. The main difference from 30 years ago is there's many more people competing for the same supply of housing in closer in areas.

Disagree with you there. It was way different before the internet. Some people know, but most didn’t

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:300K is rich in the sense that at that level you can reasonably pay a mortgage, save for retirement, save for college, pay for daycare, and go on decent vacations. You are building wealth and buying your kids some breathing space, which is more than the vast majority of Americans can do.

It’s kind of crazy that these things are now for the “rich.” I feel like owning a home and being able to save and occasionally take a vacation or 2 should be a very middle class thing that everyone can do. It’s weird to me that with all the resources we have and technology that makes life better, we haven’t figured out a way to improve human life more. Like unless you’re born to rich parents you have to take out massive loans to get an education and may never make it on the property ladder.

OP here. This is my point exactly

People's baseline standards have changed. Going on a vacation meant staying at a relative's house for a week when I was a kid. We drove there in our old station wagon. We didn't have a/c in the house when I was a kid. No one wants to live like that now - and the baseline cost of an upper middle class life reflect that.

Life is certainly better now! But those better things cost more.

That said obviously housing and education are exponentially more expensive - so it's not all a matter of, all our tastes have leveled up. But some of it is certainly that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At 300-400K, if you don't overspend on a house and have kids in public, you will live like a king.

The housing is the hard part. We only recently got this HHI level, and didn’t get on the property ladder before prices and interest rates went through the roof. We have great savings, and are definitely UMC based on the fact that we can save so much and can pay for daycare and unexpected expenses. But we can’t afford a starter home at today’s rates. I would feel pretty rich if we had bought a home in 2019. Instead, I feel like we will be stuck as long-term renters.

It’s just wild how divergent the lifestyle is, depending on which recent year you bought a house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:300K is rich in the sense that at that level you can reasonably pay a mortgage, save for retirement, save for college, pay for daycare, and go on decent vacations. You are building wealth and buying your kids some breathing space, which is more than the vast majority of Americans can do.

It’s kind of crazy that these things are now for the “rich.” I feel like owning a home and being able to save and occasionally take a vacation or 2 should be a very middle class thing that everyone can do. It’s weird to me that with all the resources we have and technology that makes life better, we haven’t figured out a way to improve human life more. Like unless you’re born to rich parents you have to take out massive loans to get an education and may never make it on the property ladder.

No, no, no. Please stop it. It’s not just for the “rich”. Many middle class Americans own homes, send kids to college and occasionally go on vacation.
They own average homes, have modest vacations and send kids to average colleges.

It was never, never and never a time when the middle class could afford to live in the best neighborhood in town, send kids to the best schools in town, and go to the best vacation spots. This was always reversed to the “rich”.

The median home price in the DC area is now about 550k. Higher than it used to be, but a middle class family can manage to afford it.
It won’t allow you to buy a SFH in NW DC or Arlington. It won’t allow you to send your kids to a 10/10 school. But that’s not what middle class means in the first place. That’s for the upper class.

It won’t allow tou to save for college enough to afford private ivy league colleges. But that’s not for the middle class. That’s for the rich elite.
The middle class sends kids to community colleges or public in-state colleges.

I disagree-- 30 years ago, middle class could live in a 10/10 school. I don't think someone making $300K today can get into a Montgomery County 10/10 school cluster without parent help or sacrificing retirement savings and vacations.

30 years ago, there were no online school ratings. So families making 300K were spread more across different areas, instead of competing with each other (via housing) for marginally "better" schools.

30 years ago people definitely knew where the better schools were and compared school pyramids and college placements and state school scores all the time. Nothing new there. The main difference from 30 years ago is there's many more people competing for the same supply of housing in closer in areas.

Disagree with you there. It was way different before the internet. Some people know, but most didn’t

Disagree with you. All the "W" schools were highly desirable. People knew to avoid PG County and the DC schools. People moved to Howard County for the schools. There was no "equity" obsession in those days. RE prices were just as heavily driven by schools as they are today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a household income of $250k in northern Virginia with three kids and we are unquestionably rich.

Only financial worry I have is how to pay for college when all three are in college at the same time in a few years.

Everything else in my life is free of financial worry.

Aww. A middle class wine mom pretending she's rich on her 250k.

Honey, let me tell you what rich is. Rich people don't worry about paying for college. Rich people pay 90k tuition checks without blinking or worrying about opportunity costs. That's rich. You're middle class.

Wow, what a snotty response.

And also wrong. 250k HHI is rich. Not being able to write 90k tuition checks doesn’t make one “middle class”. Americans have completely lost their minds about what is needed vs what is wanted and 250k gets you well into the “want” category of consumption.

DP. Sorry but I gotta agree with the snotty response. 300k a year isn’t rich.

It is only rich if you have 1-2M in the bank or via stocks/assets and do not have any debt whatsoever and no mortgage. Then I would consider you rich.

But a normal couple with a HHI of 350k with a 1M dollar mortgage, paying car loans and are making payments on your kids college tuition? No you are not rich. Upper middle class? Sure. Rich, hellllll no.

We fall into this category, upper middle i guess (but live outside dc). I was in graduate school for years and then home a bit when my kids were little, now we both work and produce so it's relative. I feel "rich" now because it is in reference to our very lean years. It's just easier in a myriad of ways because we don't have to worry about money in the same way. We don't stress over the food bill, no more pre k and childcare fees, all bills are easily paid, no credit card debt from month to month, we pay out of pocket for daughter's college (it's a state school but a very good one for her major), our house is lovely, we can call repair people when things break, we have a cleaning person, etc. There's a subjective sense of feeling satisfied that is different from the objective standard. I know we are not objectively rich compared to people on this board but compared to many and compared to where we were, where we had to do everything and had no outsourcing ability, we feel fortunate and grateful. So yes, "rich" Because there is more than enough. And we know how it is when things are really tight.

[Anonymous]

Salaries are not supposed to make you feel rich, though of course the money increases well-being.

It is a mechanism to trade time for money so you can be rich with your NW.

If your passive( capital based or otherwise) income streams exceed your needs without depleting capital, you are rich aka financially independent.

What is tricky is that one person's wants are the next person's needs. So the former feels rich with their needs met, and the latter feels poor.

This thread shows there can be no absolute definition of rich since it is personal.

All we can do is rank people by NW and measure in percentiles. The top percentiles may still have unmet wants and hence feel poor. And the opposite can be true for the lower percentiles whose needs and some wants are met, and they are happy and feeling rich.

For every person who is happy with their split shack in Arlington, there is one who wants a $10m sumer house, a $50m gulfstream, a $100m island in the Bahamas, a $200m yacht to cruise the world, and so on along the number line marching towards infinity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At 300-400K, if you don't overspend on a house and have kids in public, you will live like a king.

The housing is the hard part. We only recently got this HHI level, and didn’t get on the property ladder before prices and interest rates went through the roof. We have great savings, and are definitely UMC based on the fact that we can save so much and can pay for daycare and unexpected expenses. But we can’t afford a starter home at today’s rates. I would feel pretty rich if we had bought a home in 2019. Instead, I feel like we will be stuck as long-term renters.

It’s just wild how divergent the lifestyle is, depending on which recent year you bought a house.

You can afford a house, just not the one you want.