Why pay all of kids' college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get this new expectation that the average middle class person is supposed to save to pay for 100 percent of their kid's college. Growing up, everyone had loans, I knew of almost no one who didn't have loans to pay off. Some incurred additional debt from grad school. They've all done just fine.

I do get that college tuition is substantially more than it used to be, has risen much faster than the cost of inflation. But still, that doesn't mean you have to cut corners so tightly as to possibly cut back on retirement, or constantly live on a very tight budget. And it doesn't mean that you must work even harder to cover 100 percent of your kids' tuition.

I expect to cover at least two years of state school tuition, maybe 3 for my kids. They can make their own choices from there.

Discuss.

Nobody expects it. You are free to pay or not.

I expect it. I would think it’s strange if any of my friends weren’t planning on paying for as much of their kids’ college as they could.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

The problem is graduate school really is a complete option, and often times a bad move. I would not blindly agree to pay for my kid to go law school or get an MBA or do any kind of academic graduate program where tuition plus a stipend is not offered (because that means, it is a lifestyle program...not one in demand). Medical school is different.

I am with some PPs that would likely give a low to zero-interest loan to a kid for graduate school...but only if they have a clear plan and it is a top program. Anything other than Medical school (or again, a PhD program that is essentially "free"...so may help with some living expenses)...no way I would pay to go straight to grad school without working in the real world for 3-5 years.

We will pay for grad school. I don’t understand why you would not.

NP. Because we have a finite amount of resources, I want to retire and enjoy what is left of my life. I can afford to retire while I'm young and do the things on my bucket or fund my kids through their twenties while they pursue graduate degrees. I'll choose me on this one (after decades of putting them first). I gave my kids a debt-free undergrad. If they want to go to grad school, they'll need to choose wisely based on how it will benefit their career.

Got it, you are selfish.

And you are an entitled Gen Z who expects your parents to work into their seventies to support your multiple useless master's degrees.

Wrong and we will work much later to pay for it.

Cool. I'll be selfishly enjoying my twilight years traveling, skiing, hiking, golfing, and doing all the things I have left on my bucket list while I'm still fit and healthy. After decades of raising kids, working, and putting them through school, I'm good with that. Moreover, supporting adults after a fully paid-off undergraduate education is enabling, and it might l come back and bite you. My kid may take out $300k in medical school loans like on the other thread, and your kid can use their high income and no debt load to help her pay off her loans when they get married. If you want to work into your seventies to pay for your adult children's master's degrees, I will try my best not to feel sorry for you while I'm finally hiking in Milford Sound.

Just realized when you never have grandchildren that this is why and keep your mouth shut.

You do this so that in exchange your kids can promise they will have children, because you want grandchildren? I feel sorry for you and your poor kids.
Your kids should make their own decision to have children and it has nothing to do with paid education.

It actually has a lot to do with it.

The recent drops In US births are directly correlated with household debt levels and economic conditions. By recent I mean last 15-20 years.

It’s not emotional. And it’s not about me at all. It’s facts.

Try something else.
US births rate has been in decline since the 50s
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/USA/united-states/birth-rate

Your are so wrong on this. If declining birth rate was correlated with poor economic conditions and debt levels, poor countries would have the lowest births rate in the world. It’s the opposite.

Here in the US, poor and indebted people tend to have more children than rich people who are heavily invested into their jobs and careers. It’s facts.

I think you're comparing apples to bananas here. I don't think poor people are running around with 300K of college and grad school loans. They might have have some credit card debt but I doubt it's like 300K worth because no one would give them that much credit. Heck, they probably can't qualify to even get a mortgage of 300K.

However, a person who's invested into their career might very well be way more in debt that the average poor person, because they might have 300K of student loans, a mortgage of a million, etc. Are you really telling me that when someone is fresh out of grad school with 300K in debt, that's when they have a desire to have 5 kids and then their desire shrivels up as they start paying it off?

Also, I think you're mixing up the economic conditions of a country versus that of an individual. Poor people in poor countries are often not in debt because no one wants to lend them any money.

The case you were trying to make was that someone graduating with hundreds of thousands in student debt would have less children because would be in a bad situation financially.
Are you really going to tell us that poor who can’t even have a decent meal a day, don’t even know how they are going to pay rent, are in worst financial situation because they have no debt?

Are you really telling us that the doctor who graduated with 400k in student loans debt, has a good job making over 300k, has a million $ home with a mortgage, is in a worst financial situation that the poor family in the ghetto that can’t put food on the table? because of the 400k debt.
You don’t know what being poor means, GTOH

If we even just focus on people with college degrees, there are no evidences showing that students who graduated with no student debt end up having more children than students who graduated with no debt. It’s even the opposite.
People in debt end up falling in lower class, and the lower the social class the more children they have.

It’s not country wide data but in my social circle of college educated women in their 30s: no debt corrallates to babies pretty closely. Everyone I know well enough to have a sense of their financial situation waited until they’d paid off their student loans and those of us who didn’t have loans (my dad taught at a university so my tuition was crazy low — thank you dad!) started having kids far sooner than those who did.

I think you just don't know many people with student loans. Because I know tons and almost all of them had babies before the loans were paid off. We have a NW over $5M and two teenage kids and we are still paying DH's law school loans because they are at 2%.

That's on you for having a very high income and not paying off your debt. That makes no sense to me not to pay it off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree. Kids need to have some skin in the game to help motivate them to finish on time and do well - and not treat college as a 4 year (or more) party funded by mummy and daddy.

Your kids need that. Mine take their education seriously no matter who pays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

The problem is graduate school really is a complete option, and often times a bad move. I would not blindly agree to pay for my kid to go law school or get an MBA or do any kind of academic graduate program where tuition plus a stipend is not offered (because that means, it is a lifestyle program...not one in demand). Medical school is different.

I am with some PPs that would likely give a low to zero-interest loan to a kid for graduate school...but only if they have a clear plan and it is a top program. Anything other than Medical school (or again, a PhD program that is essentially "free"...so may help with some living expenses)...no way I would pay to go straight to grad school without working in the real world for 3-5 years.

We will pay for grad school. I don’t understand why you would not.

NP. Because we have a finite amount of resources, I want to retire and enjoy what is left of my life. I can afford to retire while I'm young and do the things on my bucket or fund my kids through their twenties while they pursue graduate degrees. I'll choose me on this one (after decades of putting them first). I gave my kids a debt-free undergrad. If they want to go to grad school, they'll need to choose wisely based on how it will benefit their career.

Got it, you are selfish.

And you are an entitled Gen Z who expects your parents to work into their seventies to support your multiple useless master's degrees.

Wrong and we will work much later to pay for it.

Cool. I'll be selfishly enjoying my twilight years traveling, skiing, hiking, golfing, and doing all the things I have left on my bucket list while I'm still fit and healthy. After decades of raising kids, working, and putting them through school, I'm good with that. Moreover, supporting adults after a fully paid-off undergraduate education is enabling, and it might l come back and bite you. My kid may take out $300k in medical school loans like on the other thread, and your kid can use their high income and no debt load to help her pay off her loans when they get married. If you want to work into your seventies to pay for your adult children's master's degrees, I will try my best not to feel sorry for you while I'm finally hiking in Milford Sound.

Just realized when you never have grandchildren that this is why and keep your mouth shut.

You do this so that in exchange your kids can promise they will have children, because you want grandchildren? I feel sorry for you and your poor kids.
Your kids should make their own decision to have children and it has nothing to do with paid education.

It actually has a lot to do with it.

The recent drops In US births are directly correlated with household debt levels and economic conditions. By recent I mean last 15-20 years.

It’s not emotional. And it’s not about me at all. It’s facts.

Try something else.
US births rate has been in decline since the 50s
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/USA/united-states/birth-rate

Your are so wrong on this. If declining birth rate was correlated with poor economic conditions and debt levels, poor countries would have the lowest births rate in the world. It’s the opposite.

Here in the US, poor and indebted people tend to have more children than rich people who are heavily invested into their jobs and careers. It’s facts.

I think you're comparing apples to bananas here. I don't think poor people are running around with 300K of college and grad school loans. They might have have some credit card debt but I doubt it's like 300K worth because no one would give them that much credit. Heck, they probably can't qualify to even get a mortgage of 300K.

However, a person who's invested into their career might very well be way more in debt that the average poor person, because they might have 300K of student loans, a mortgage of a million, etc. Are you really telling me that when someone is fresh out of grad school with 300K in debt, that's when they have a desire to have 5 kids and then their desire shrivels up as they start paying it off?

Also, I think you're mixing up the economic conditions of a country versus that of an individual. Poor people in poor countries are often not in debt because no one wants to lend them any money.

The case you were trying to make was that someone graduating with hundreds of thousands in student debt would have less children because would be in a bad situation financially.
Are you really going to tell us that poor who can’t even have a decent meal a day, don’t even know how they are going to pay rent, are in worst financial situation because they have no debt?

Are you really telling us that the doctor who graduated with 400k in student loans debt, has a good job making over 300k, has a million $ home with a mortgage, is in a worst financial situation that the poor family in the ghetto that can’t put food on the table? because of the 400k debt.
You don’t know what being poor means, GTOH

If we even just focus on people with college degrees, there are no evidences showing that students who graduated with no student debt end up having more children than students who graduated with no debt. It’s even the opposite.
People in debt end up falling in lower class, and the lower the social class the more children they have.

It’s not country wide data but in my social circle of college educated women in their 30s: no debt corrallates to babies pretty closely. Everyone I know well enough to have a sense of their financial situation waited until they’d paid off their student loans and those of us who didn’t have loans (my dad taught at a university so my tuition was crazy low — thank you dad!) started having kids far sooner than those who did.

Um, well in my social circle of college educated women, the ones with loans were more likely to have kids earlier and some of those without chose not to have kids whatsoever.

This is why we call that anecdotal evidence - neither of our bubbles mean anything whatsoever, in terms of evidence of an overall trend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

The problem is graduate school really is a complete option, and often times a bad move. I would not blindly agree to pay for my kid to go law school or get an MBA or do any kind of academic graduate program where tuition plus a stipend is not offered (because that means, it is a lifestyle program...not one in demand). Medical school is different.

I am with some PPs that would likely give a low to zero-interest loan to a kid for graduate school...but only if they have a clear plan and it is a top program. Anything other than Medical school (or again, a PhD program that is essentially "free"...so may help with some living expenses)...no way I would pay to go straight to grad school without working in the real world for 3-5 years.

We will pay for grad school. I don’t understand why you would not.

NP. Because we have a finite amount of resources, I want to retire and enjoy what is left of my life. I can afford to retire while I'm young and do the things on my bucket or fund my kids through their twenties while they pursue graduate degrees. I'll choose me on this one (after decades of putting them first). I gave my kids a debt-free undergrad. If they want to go to grad school, they'll need to choose wisely based on how it will benefit their career.

Got it, you are selfish.

And you are an entitled Gen Z who expects your parents to work into their seventies to support your multiple useless master's degrees.

Wrong and we will work much later to pay for it.

Cool. I'll be selfishly enjoying my twilight years traveling, skiing, hiking, golfing, and doing all the things I have left on my bucket list while I'm still fit and healthy. After decades of raising kids, working, and putting them through school, I'm good with that. Moreover, supporting adults after a fully paid-off undergraduate education is enabling, and it might l come back and bite you. My kid may take out $300k in medical school loans like on the other thread, and your kid can use their high income and no debt load to help her pay off her loans when they get married. If you want to work into your seventies to pay for your adult children's master's degrees, I will try my best not to feel sorry for you while I'm finally hiking in Milford Sound.

Just realized when you never have grandchildren that this is why and keep your mouth shut.

You do this so that in exchange your kids can promise they will have children, because you want grandchildren? I feel sorry for you and your poor kids.
Your kids should make their own decision to have children and it has nothing to do with paid education.

It actually has a lot to do with it.

The recent drops In US births are directly correlated with household debt levels and economic conditions. By recent I mean last 15-20 years.

It’s not emotional. And it’s not about me at all. It’s facts.

Try something else.
US births rate has been in decline since the 50s
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/USA/united-states/birth-rate

Your are so wrong on this. If declining birth rate was correlated with poor economic conditions and debt levels, poor countries would have the lowest births rate in the world. It’s the opposite.

Here in the US, poor and indebted people tend to have more children than rich people who are heavily invested into their jobs and careers. It’s facts.

I think you're comparing apples to bananas here. I don't think poor people are running around with 300K of college and grad school loans. They might have have some credit card debt but I doubt it's like 300K worth because no one would give them that much credit. Heck, they probably can't qualify to even get a mortgage of 300K.

However, a person who's invested into their career might very well be way more in debt that the average poor person, because they might have 300K of student loans, a mortgage of a million, etc. Are you really telling me that when someone is fresh out of grad school with 300K in debt, that's when they have a desire to have 5 kids and then their desire shrivels up as they start paying it off?

Also, I think you're mixing up the economic conditions of a country versus that of an individual. Poor people in poor countries are often not in debt because no one wants to lend them any money.

The case you were trying to make was that someone graduating with hundreds of thousands in student debt would have less children because would be in a bad situation financially.
Are you really going to tell us that poor who can’t even have a decent meal a day, don’t even know how they are going to pay rent, are in worst financial situation because they have no debt?

Are you really telling us that the doctor who graduated with 400k in student loans debt, has a good job making over 300k, has a million $ home with a mortgage, is in a worst financial situation that the poor family in the ghetto that can’t put food on the table? because of the 400k debt.
You don’t know what being poor means, GTOH

If we even just focus on people with college degrees, there are no evidences showing that students who graduated with no student debt end up having more children than students who graduated with no debt. It’s even the opposite.
People in debt end up falling in lower class, and the lower the social class the more children they have.

It’s not country wide data but in my social circle of college educated women in their 30s: no debt corrallates to babies pretty closely. Everyone I know well enough to have a sense of their financial situation waited until they’d paid off their student loans and those of us who didn’t have loans (my dad taught at a university so my tuition was crazy low — thank you dad!) started having kids far sooner than those who did.

I think you just don't know many people with student loans. Because I know tons and almost all of them had babies before the loans were paid off. We have a NW over $5M and two teenage kids and we are still paying DH's law school loans because they are at 2%.

That's on you for having a very high income and not paying off your debt. That makes no sense to me not to pay it off.

Really? I don't think this is the board for you then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the people I know didn't have loans.

Are most of the people you know from very upper class families?

No, it was just cheaper back then. But now that I think about it, I know people who had grad school loans.

I don't know a single person who didn't have undergrad loans who wasn't very wealthy. (class of '89)

Considering college was cheaper back then, this exemplifies why the pressure for middle class to pay all of it is becoming unrealistic. There was a separate thread about saving $1M(!!!!).

Only the very wealthy can do that, or perhaps middle class who essentially live poorly and/or have some form of generational wealth (like didn't have loans, unexpected inheritance, etc.) to help them in that pursuit.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2023/07/23/1982-the-last-time-college-costs-kept-pace-with-median-income/?sh=12883cc9349f
College was not that much cheaper given incomes and inflation. A private was still $40-50k 30 years ago.

No. Places like Richmond and Wake Forest were 20-25k tuition 30 years ago.

+1, my small private liberal arts college was $20-25k in the late 90s/early 00s, currently over $70k all in now.

Yep.



1982: The Last Time College Costs Kept Pace With Median Income



For all the arguments that many people make about the value of a college education — considering only income after, so reducing it to an expensive trade school (and not slight meant to the trade schools, as they fulfill an important function) — there comes a point where a vast swath of the country can no longer afford to have kids in school, or to pay for their own university degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We plan pay between 80-100% of an in state public undergraduate degree. The way that loan companies go after young adults who have zero experience is shameful and can impact them for the rest of their lives.

For grad school, we’ll work with them on choices and financial pros/cons but it will be their money at that point.

Usually parents do 50/50 split on grad school. Your money is more their money. You will be dead soon anyhow

I don't think this is true at all.

They can use their inheritance to pay off what remains of their grad school loans.

I'm 63 and my mother is 96.

Have a seat while you wait for that inheritance.

[Anonymous]

My parents paid for six college educations and three of us paid for our masters and we have all done extremely well. We have done the same for our children and they are also doing extremely well. None of our kids went to party schools and they all majored in areas where they could make a good living. From birth, we have put a lot of money into 529 plans for our grandchildren but it will be up to their parents to insure the money is used wisely.

[Anonymous]

We are covering four years of any college for each of our kids. I’m not sure about graduate school yet though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

The problem is graduate school really is a complete option, and often times a bad move. I would not blindly agree to pay for my kid to go law school or get an MBA or do any kind of academic graduate program where tuition plus a stipend is not offered (because that means, it is a lifestyle program...not one in demand). Medical school is different.

I am with some PPs that would likely give a low to zero-interest loan to a kid for graduate school...but only if they have a clear plan and it is a top program. Anything other than Medical school (or again, a PhD program that is essentially "free"...so may help with some living expenses)...no way I would pay to go straight to grad school without working in the real world for 3-5 years.

We will pay for grad school. I don’t understand why you would not.

NP. Because we have a finite amount of resources, I want to retire and enjoy what is left of my life. I can afford to retire while I'm young and do the things on my bucket or fund my kids through their twenties while they pursue graduate degrees. I'll choose me on this one (after decades of putting them first). I gave my kids a debt-free undergrad. If they want to go to grad school, they'll need to choose wisely based on how it will benefit their career.

Got it, you are selfish.

And you are an entitled Gen Z who expects your parents to work into their seventies to support your multiple useless master's degrees.

Wrong and we will work much later to pay for it.

Cool. I'll be selfishly enjoying my twilight years traveling, skiing, hiking, golfing, and doing all the things I have left on my bucket list while I'm still fit and healthy. After decades of raising kids, working, and putting them through school, I'm good with that. Moreover, supporting adults after a fully paid-off undergraduate education is enabling, and it might l come back and bite you. My kid may take out $300k in medical school loans like on the other thread, and your kid can use their high income and no debt load to help her pay off her loans when they get married. If you want to work into your seventies to pay for your adult children's master's degrees, I will try my best not to feel sorry for you while I'm finally hiking in Milford Sound.

Just realized when you never have grandchildren that this is why and keep your mouth shut.

You do this so that in exchange your kids can promise they will have children, because you want grandchildren? I feel sorry for you and your poor kids.
Your kids should make their own decision to have children and it has nothing to do with paid education.

It actually has a lot to do with it.

The recent drops In US births are directly correlated with household debt levels and economic conditions. By recent I mean last 15-20 years.

It’s not emotional. And it’s not about me at all. It’s facts.

Try something else.
US births rate has been in decline since the 50s
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/USA/united-states/birth-rate

Your are so wrong on this. If declining birth rate was correlated with poor economic conditions and debt levels, poor countries would have the lowest births rate in the world. It’s the opposite.

Here in the US, poor and indebted people tend to have more children than rich people who are heavily invested into their jobs and careers. It’s facts.

I think you're comparing apples to bananas here. I don't think poor people are running around with 300K of college and grad school loans. They might have have some credit card debt but I doubt it's like 300K worth because no one would give them that much credit. Heck, they probably can't qualify to even get a mortgage of 300K.

However, a person who's invested into their career might very well be way more in debt that the average poor person, because they might have 300K of student loans, a mortgage of a million, etc. Are you really telling me that when someone is fresh out of grad school with 300K in debt, that's when they have a desire to have 5 kids and then their desire shrivels up as they start paying it off?

Also, I think you're mixing up the economic conditions of a country versus that of an individual. Poor people in poor countries are often not in debt because no one wants to lend them any money.

Agreed. It's also why Biden's student loan debt cancellations are so unpopular. They're benefitting a demographic that is already better off compared to the rest of America. Poor people don't have college loans because they really don't go to college.

[Anonymous]

I’m a millennial. Both my husband and I had parents who paid for our undergraduate educations. We are so grateful. It’s made such a difference in launching our lives and careers. It’s totally worth helping your kids thrive in adulthood. We plan to do the same for our daughter. It is our responsibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been MC all my life. I wanted to be married, have kids, and have at least a MC life. Beginning of marital life, we were quite poor and made very little money. Later on, our earnings increased.

Because of that - we only had 2 kids, only lived in house in a inexpensive neighborhood, only sent my kids to our local public K-12 schools, did not have a pet, lived a modest life, saved for our retirement, emergency fun, and started saving for as much college as we could. My kids went in-state and chose majors that can get them employed.

We first saved for 2 years of community college tuition, then we added 2 years of in-state public university tuition, then we added two more years of Masters in-state public college. Once we had that in place, we started to save for living expenses for 2,4, 6 years. Once we had hit that target, we started to save for MBA, medical school, law school etc.

Paying for kids college gives them a SES leg-up that can help them and future generations. So, I don't have to sing the praises of college education for the kids or why making kids graduate debt-free is a blessing to them. Suffice to say, you need to live with a degree of frugality to save for your kids.

If you are very poor, then at least make your kids high achievers by prioritizing education and enriching them at home.

I think people are critical when parents live a lavish life - vacations, booze, socializing, expensive hobbies and do not save for the kids education.

The problem is graduate school really is a complete option, and often times a bad move. I would not blindly agree to pay for my kid to go law school or get an MBA or do any kind of academic graduate program where tuition plus a stipend is not offered (because that means, it is a lifestyle program...not one in demand). Medical school is different.

I am with some PPs that would likely give a low to zero-interest loan to a kid for graduate school...but only if they have a clear plan and it is a top program. Anything other than Medical school (or again, a PhD program that is essentially "free"...so may help with some living expenses)...no way I would pay to go straight to grad school without working in the real world for 3-5 years.

We will pay for grad school. I don’t understand why you would not.

NP. Because we have a finite amount of resources, I want to retire and enjoy what is left of my life. I can afford to retire while I'm young and do the things on my bucket or fund my kids through their twenties while they pursue graduate degrees. I'll choose me on this one (after decades of putting them first). I gave my kids a debt-free undergrad. If they want to go to grad school, they'll need to choose wisely based on how it will benefit their career.

Got it, you are selfish.

And you are an entitled Gen Z who expects your parents to work into their seventies to support your multiple useless master's degrees.

Wrong and we will work much later to pay for it.

Cool. I'll be selfishly enjoying my twilight years traveling, skiing, hiking, golfing, and doing all the things I have left on my bucket list while I'm still fit and healthy. After decades of raising kids, working, and putting them through school, I'm good with that. Moreover, supporting adults after a fully paid-off undergraduate education is enabling, and it might l come back and bite you. My kid may take out $300k in medical school loans like on the other thread, and your kid can use their high income and no debt load to help her pay off her loans when they get married. If you want to work into your seventies to pay for your adult children's master's degrees, I will try my best not to feel sorry for you while I'm finally hiking in Milford Sound.

Just realized when you never have grandchildren that this is why and keep your mouth shut.

You do this so that in exchange your kids can promise they will have children, because you want grandchildren? I feel sorry for you and your poor kids.
Your kids should make their own decision to have children and it has nothing to do with paid education.

It actually has a lot to do with it.

The recent drops In US births are directly correlated with household debt levels and economic conditions. By recent I mean last 15-20 years.

It’s not emotional. And it’s not about me at all. It’s facts.

Try something else.
US births rate has been in decline since the 50s
https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/USA/united-states/birth-rate

Your are so wrong on this. If declining birth rate was correlated with poor economic conditions and debt levels, poor countries would have the lowest births rate in the world. It’s the opposite.

Here in the US, poor and indebted people tend to have more children than rich people who are heavily invested into their jobs and careers. It’s facts.

I think you're comparing apples to bananas here. I don't think poor people are running around with 300K of college and grad school loans. They might have have some credit card debt but I doubt it's like 300K worth because no one would give them that much credit. Heck, they probably can't qualify to even get a mortgage of 300K.

However, a person who's invested into their career might very well be way more in debt that the average poor person, because they might have 300K of student loans, a mortgage of a million, etc. Are you really telling me that when someone is fresh out of grad school with 300K in debt, that's when they have a desire to have 5 kids and then their desire shrivels up as they start paying it off?

Also, I think you're mixing up the economic conditions of a country versus that of an individual. Poor people in poor countries are often not in debt because no one wants to lend them any money.

The case you were trying to make was that someone graduating with hundreds of thousands in student debt would have less children because would be in a bad situation financially.
Are you really going to tell us that poor who can’t even have a decent meal a day, don’t even know how they are going to pay rent, are in worst financial situation because they have no debt?

Are you really telling us that the doctor who graduated with 400k in student loans debt, has a good job making over 300k, has a million $ home with a mortgage, is in a worst financial situation that the poor family in the ghetto that can’t put food on the table? because of the 400k debt.
You don’t know what being poor means, GTOH

If we even just focus on people with college degrees, there are no evidences showing that students who graduated with no student debt end up having more children than students who graduated with no debt. It’s even the opposite.
People in debt end up falling in lower class, and the lower the social class the more children they have.

If the doctor bought a $500K home, they more easily could have paid off their loans. Sorry, but tired of people in million dollar homes screaming poverty when it comes to college. We stayed in our crappy small cheap house so we could have the ability to save.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree. Kids need to have some skin in the game to help motivate them to finish on time and do well - and not treat college as a 4 year (or more) party funded by mummy and daddy.

Your kids need that. Mine take their education seriously no matter who pays.

+1

They are good stewards of our money as well as their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't get this new expectation that the average middle class person is supposed to save to pay for 100 percent of their kid's college. Growing up, everyone had loans, I knew of almost no one who didn't have loans to pay off. Some incurred additional debt from grad school. They've all done just fine.

I do get that college tuition is substantially more than it used to be, has risen much faster than the cost of inflation. But still, that doesn't mean you have to cut corners so tightly as to possibly cut back on retirement, or constantly live on a very tight budget. And it doesn't mean that you must work even harder to cover 100 percent of your kids' tuition.

I expect to cover at least two years of state school tuition, maybe 3 for my kids. They can make their own choices from there.

Discuss.

That’s not the issue. Many people on this site are high w-2 earners but don’t have tons of wealth. They aren’t going to qualify for financial aid. So either they pony up or their kids have high interest loans.

The system is so messed up. Education is a societal good. Why we have made it so expensive is beyond me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a millennial. Both my husband and I had parents who paid for our undergraduate educations. We are so grateful. It’s made such a difference in launching our lives and careers. It’s totally worth helping your kids thrive in adulthood. We plan to do the same for our daughter. It is our responsibility.

I'm am "exennial"

You will work harder and sacrifice more to pay for your kids' education than your parents did, even with a higher paying career.