NYT: "Peak College Admissions Insanity"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the many sad parts about that article is that the rich but smart kid who wasn't burdened by a need for financial aid only got into her places where her parents were legacies (Dartmouth, UVA).

Another person who didn't read the article carefully. She was also admitted to Johns Hopkins and Michigan/OOS.

Sure, but did you miss the part where she was rejected by Duke, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Columbia, USC and even wait listed at Northeastern? There's a good deal of randomness in college admissions, but no one can argue that being a legacy (which statistically has been white affirmative action) gives students a huge boost.

It was really random this year too.
Lots of Cornell rejects who got into Yale. Lots of Dartmouth rejects who got into Duke.
Weird.

Maybe. But legacy preferences aren't random. It's kids who are born on 3rd base and getting congratulated for hitting a triple.

[Anonymous]

The op-ed noted that her ACT was a 36, so clearly she had at least one big credential that would have made her a competitive applicant for Dartmouth even without legacy status.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The op-ed noted that her ACT was a 36, so clearly she had at least one big credential that would have made her a competitive applicant for Dartmouth even without legacy status.

No one said she was qualified. But plenty of qualified kids with high standardized test scores don't get into Ivies each year. The legacy bit is a big hook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The op-ed noted that her ACT was a 36, so clearly she had at least one big credential that would have made her a competitive applicant for Dartmouth even without legacy status.

No one said she was qualified. But plenty of qualified kids with high standardized test scores don't get into Ivies each year. The legacy bit is a big hook.

Yes there are lots of big hooks (athlete; donor; legacy; URM)….

Legacy is just another hook - only it’s less and less important imo than other hooks these days.

Sadly my legacy kid was rejected from my Alma mater this year…but it’s ok. Going to another T20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The op-ed noted that her ACT was a 36, so clearly she had at least one big credential that would have made her a competitive applicant for Dartmouth even without legacy status.

No one said she was qualified. But plenty of qualified kids with high standardized test scores don't get into Ivies each year. The legacy bit is a big hook.

Yes there are lots of big hooks (athlete; donor; legacy; URM)….

Legacy is just another hook - only it’s less and less important imo than other hooks these days.

Sadly my legacy kid was rejected from my Alma mater this year…but it’s ok. Going to another T20.

Just because your legacy kid was rejected doesn’t mean it’s a less important hook. (anecdotes are not data.) For some elite colleges whose data was studied, legacy status is equivalent to having an extra 300 points on the SATs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The op-ed noted that her ACT was a 36, so clearly she had at least one big credential that would have made her a competitive applicant for Dartmouth even without legacy status.

No one said she was qualified. But plenty of qualified kids with high standardized test scores don't get into Ivies each year. The legacy bit is a big hook.

PP disparaged her with the "third base" comment.

Let's take an applicant who gets into all three of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. This applicant's parents both attended Cornell. Applicant is admitted to Cornell. And yet you would say it was because of the legacy hook?

[Anonymous]

Depends on the school, but legacy is not a big hook at many of the most selective ones, notoriously Princeton and Yale. My kids got into my alma mater AND one of the other HYPS schools.

[Anonymous]

Legacy mattering less and less at schools like Northwestern, UChicago and Cornell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends on the school, but legacy is not a big hook at many of the most selective ones, notoriously Princeton and Yale. My kids got into my alma mater AND one of the other HYPS schools.

PP here.
Agree on Yale.
Don’t know about Princeton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought it was good and covered all bases, except one, that I continue to rant about.

Part of the reason there is so much competition for the top schools is because so-called elite employers only recruit from them. We need companies to see that there are tons of bright students everywhere. Just look at the girl profiled in the article who is clearly smart and likely has a ton of grit. She's going to Hunter College where no investment bank or MBB would ever look to hire from. Until that mindset is broken, things will not change.

I have not read every post on this thread. I agree with the above post. Anyone involved in the hiring process for employees? Curious to see if companies are starting to broaden their list of colleges that employees are hired from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^sorry, couldn’t for force a student to attend a college they couldn’t *afford*. Typo.

Before you ED, you run the numbers on their website. If the final offer exceeds what you saw, you can go back to them for adjustment. If not, you are obligated to attend unless of course your situation has changed drastically. BTW, your affordability is determined by them, not you.

+1. This. Y’all have to take loans like everyone else. All y’all who had multiple kids in succession are sol too, btw.

I understand we’ll have to take loans and I’m aware the school determines what they think we can pay and I only have one kid, thank you very much. I was only confused because the article suggested that by applying ED and being accepted you had to immediately withdraw other applications and were obligated to attend before knowing what the FA might include and regardless of whether it matched the calculator.

I appreciate all the other pp’s who reassured me that the article has it wrong and my understanding was correct.

I'm going to say the article is correct in spirit, but maybe not from a legal standpoint. I have read that legally colleges cannot hold you to your ED contract, but the spirit of the ED contract is that you won't ED unless you are confident you can afford it and will attend if offered admittance. Students are definitely supposed to pull their other outstanding applications once they are admittted ED. UMiami as one example said very clearly at their admissions presentation that ED is binding and that you should not apply ED unless you know the finances will work out for you and you will attend if offered a spot. Can they hold you to this? Probably not, but if it was super easy to back out of an ED contract, everyone would apply ED. The high school college counselor has to also sign the ED contract. They will absolutely ask you to rescind all outstanding applications if your child is accepted ED. The process was not created for people to be able to compare their financial options. It definitely discriminates against people needing financial aid.

Hint===that's not discrimination. It's a path to college. It's not a path that will work for everyone, but that doesn't make it discrimination. Anyone can choose to ED, it's based on your finances and whether or not you are willing to be full pay at a school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean forget elite schools. The insanity goes beyond the Ivy League. Flagship state schools are very, very competitive.

This is what’s scary to me. When we are telling kids with basically perfect GPAs who took all the hardest classes at their school “you might not get into Maryland” there is something wrong with the system. The top state college should be able to accept and educate our state’s top students.

Yep--same in VA. Even with three strong state schools, depending on the HS, students have to be in the top 10-15% of their class to get in.

it's more about the major than just getting admission. Many of the "top students" want CS/Engineering, therefore, there isn't enough space, but if your kid is willing to major in psychology they can gain admissions as there is spac

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the many sad parts about that article is that the rich but smart kid who wasn't burdened by a need for financial aid only got into her places where her parents were legacies (Dartmouth, UVA).

Another person who didn't read the article carefully. She was also admitted to Johns Hopkins and Michigan/OOS.

Sure, but did you miss the part where she was rejected by Duke, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Columbia, USC and even wait listed at Northeastern? There's a good deal of randomness in college admissions, but no one can argue that being a legacy (which statistically has been white affirmative action) gives students a huge boost.

So what? Very few kids get admission to 10+ Elite schools. Most highly qualified get into 1-2 at most and rejected from the rest. Yes it seems like a crap shoot. It's to be expected

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean forget elite schools. The insanity goes beyond the Ivy League. Flagship state schools are very, very competitive.

This is what’s scary to me. When we are telling kids with basically perfect GPAs who took all the hardest classes at their school “you might not get into Maryland” there is something wrong with the system. The top state college should be able to accept and educate our state’s top students.

Yup. Like elite isn’t even in the cards for my kids. I’m not vying to have my kids rub elbows with the 1%. I just want my above average but not super star kids to get a solid education. And don’t even get me started on the cost of Virginia state schools. I feel like the article (and DCUM) are just tone deaf. Am I supposed to shed tears for the UMC/UC who can afford the best private high schools and colleges bc they might have to settle for Wesleyan?

Seems like MD should follow states like TX and guarantee admission for anyone in the top 5% - 10% of the class. Tell those kids they have to decide to attend by 11/1 (with appropriate FA information) or they lose their guaranteed admission.

The UMD yield rate is only 29%, so the system seems broken for both the applicant and school.

That wouldn't solve the problem. They might guarantee admission, but certainly not to business, CS, Engineering, etc. And that is what many of the top students aim to major in. So parents would still complain

[Anonymous]

For Rania the news was not so good: A full ride at Wesleyan.

Poor Rania.

Higher education is so broken in this country. The utterly ridiculous cost, shameless unethical admissions processes, the dumb idea that if a university has space for a good portion of its applicants that there is something wrong with it (Do we want our universities to educate the populace or not?), employers focusing on just a few top schools, etc.