Why do Americans love dogs so much?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

+1000
I visited my sister in Tokyo and saw plenty of dogs at outdoor cafes and such and not one was over 20 pounds. No one would dream of owning a large, energetic dog in a city. But here most of the dogs I see are enormous and were bred for heavy outdoor activity. I don't even care for dogs and I feel so sorry for them.

This. I don't think "Americans love dogs so much" as the title of the thread says. I think Americans actually mistreat their dogs and have unrealistic expectations about dogs because they romanticize them. People love dogs all over the world, but sometimes loving dogs means NOT adopting one, or not adopting one that is poorly suited to where you live, because that will suck for the dog.

The adopt don’t shop trend results in a lot of lifestyle mismatches. However, large dogs actually do well in cities. Many are couch potatoes or more easily trained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

How can they be lazy if they want to take their dogs on walks? Isn't that contradictory? Lazy people would stay at home! And it is reasonable to expect amenities in a community where you pay taxes.

But that’s the point- they don’t want to take them on walks. They want to stand around on their phone while their dog sprints off leash around a public park (but not the dog park, an amenity that their taxes also paid for, because their dog is too reactive for a dog park. They’d rather the dog terrorize children and joggers instead)

This.

There is a group of dog owners in my neighborhood working hard to colonize a playground/recreational field for their dogs. The playground and field have been in the neighborhood for 15 years. Many of us with kids moved here in part because it exists and is so convenient and big. All these dog owners either moved her in the last few years or just adopted dogs in the last few years (in most cases both) and they think it's deeply unfair that dogs are not allowed off leash at this park. After all, it would be so convenient to them to let their dogs run around off leash at this park. There are dog parks in the neighborhood but you have to walk further to get to them, something apparently none of these people considered before adopting their dogs.

Lazy AF.

Would you say parents are lazy AF if they want playgrounds close to their home to allow their children run around while caregivers are on their phones ? Probably not!

Also you can't speak for all large dog owners. Most take dogs for walks but they realize dogs like off leash play with their friends. I see nothing wrong in allowing off leash get togethers when the field is not occupied with children.

As far as I know, leashes aren’t required for children in public areas. What a ridiculous comparison. Yes I allow my child to run off leash at a playground near my house. No I don’t let my dog do the same. Wtf?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

How can they be lazy if they want to take their dogs on walks? Isn't that contradictory? Lazy people would stay at home! And it is reasonable to expect amenities in a community where you pay taxes.

But that’s the point- they don’t want to take them on walks. They want to stand around on their phone while their dog sprints off leash around a public park (but not the dog park, an amenity that their taxes also paid for, because their dog is too reactive for a dog park. They’d rather the dog terrorize children and joggers instead)

This.

There is a group of dog owners in my neighborhood working hard to colonize a playground/recreational field for their dogs. The playground and field have been in the neighborhood for 15 years. Many of us with kids moved here in part because it exists and is so convenient and big. All these dog owners either moved her in the last few years or just adopted dogs in the last few years (in most cases both) and they think it's deeply unfair that dogs are not allowed off leash at this park. After all, it would be so convenient to them to let their dogs run around off leash at this park. There are dog parks in the neighborhood but you have to walk further to get to them, something apparently none of these people considered before adopting their dogs.

Lazy AF.

Would you say parents are lazy AF if they want playgrounds close to their home to allow their children run around while caregivers are on their phones ? Probably not!

Also you can't speak for all large dog owners. Most take dogs for walks but they realize dogs like off leash play with their friends. I see nothing wrong in allowing off leash get togethers when the field is not occupied with children.

Children see your dogs sprinting around the playground and they are afraid to come. They walk back home. So how about you just follow the law and don’t do it. Go to a dog park, go to your backyard, go to a park that has off leash hours. Or give your dog to someone else. Or take it for a 5 mile run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

How can they be lazy if they want to take their dogs on walks? Isn't that contradictory? Lazy people would stay at home! And it is reasonable to expect amenities in a community where you pay taxes.

But that’s the point- they don’t want to take them on walks. They want to stand around on their phone while their dog sprints off leash around a public park (but not the dog park, an amenity that their taxes also paid for, because their dog is too reactive for a dog park. They’d rather the dog terrorize children and joggers instead)

This.

There is a group of dog owners in my neighborhood working hard to colonize a playground/recreational field for their dogs. The playground and field have been in the neighborhood for 15 years. Many of us with kids moved here in part because it exists and is so convenient and big. All these dog owners either moved her in the last few years or just adopted dogs in the last few years (in most cases both) and they think it's deeply unfair that dogs are not allowed off leash at this park. After all, it would be so convenient to them to let their dogs run around off leash at this park. There are dog parks in the neighborhood but you have to walk further to get to them, something apparently none of these people considered before adopting their dogs.

Lazy AF.

Would you say parents are lazy AF if they want playgrounds close to their home to allow their children run around while caregivers are on their phones ? Probably not!

Also you can't speak for all large dog owners. Most take dogs for walks but they realize dogs like off leash play with their friends. I see nothing wrong in allowing off leash get togethers when the field is not occupied with children.

As far as I know, leashes aren’t required for children in public areas. What a ridiculous comparison. Yes I allow my child to run off leash at a playground near my house. No I don’t let my dog do the same. Wtf?

I was referring to dog parks where you do not require leashes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

How can they be lazy if they want to take their dogs on walks? Isn't that contradictory? Lazy people would stay at home! And it is reasonable to expect amenities in a community where you pay taxes.

But that’s the point- they don’t want to take them on walks. They want to stand around on their phone while their dog sprints off leash around a public park (but not the dog park, an amenity that their taxes also paid for, because their dog is too reactive for a dog park. They’d rather the dog terrorize children and joggers instead)

This.

There is a group of dog owners in my neighborhood working hard to colonize a playground/recreational field for their dogs. The playground and field have been in the neighborhood for 15 years. Many of us with kids moved here in part because it exists and is so convenient and big. All these dog owners either moved her in the last few years or just adopted dogs in the last few years (in most cases both) and they think it's deeply unfair that dogs are not allowed off leash at this park. After all, it would be so convenient to them to let their dogs run around off leash at this park. There are dog parks in the neighborhood but you have to walk further to get to them, something apparently none of these people considered before adopting their dogs.

Lazy AF.

Would you say parents are lazy AF if they want playgrounds close to their home to allow their children run around while caregivers are on their phones ? Probably not!

Also you can't speak for all large dog owners. Most take dogs for walks but they realize dogs like off leash play with their friends. I see nothing wrong in allowing off leash get togethers when the field is not occupied with children.

Children see your dogs sprinting around the playground and they are afraid to come. They walk back home. So how about you just follow the law and don’t do it. Go to a dog park, go to your backyard, go to a park that has off leash hours. Or give your dog to someone else. Or take it for a 5 mile run.

I don't do it. I have a back yard and I take him to sniff spots. But, I am not everyone and if it is 5am in the morning and no one is around why can't they let their dogs run around an open field ( as long as they pick up their poop)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

How can they be lazy if they want to take their dogs on walks? Isn't that contradictory? Lazy people would stay at home! And it is reasonable to expect amenities in a community where you pay taxes.

But that’s the point- they don’t want to take them on walks. They want to stand around on their phone while their dog sprints off leash around a public park (but not the dog park, an amenity that their taxes also paid for, because their dog is too reactive for a dog park. They’d rather the dog terrorize children and joggers instead)

This.

There is a group of dog owners in my neighborhood working hard to colonize a playground/recreational field for their dogs. The playground and field have been in the neighborhood for 15 years. Many of us with kids moved here in part because it exists and is so convenient and big. All these dog owners either moved her in the last few years or just adopted dogs in the last few years (in most cases both) and they think it's deeply unfair that dogs are not allowed off leash at this park. After all, it would be so convenient to them to let their dogs run around off leash at this park. There are dog parks in the neighborhood but you have to walk further to get to them, something apparently none of these people considered before adopting their dogs.

Lazy AF.

Would you say parents are lazy AF if they want playgrounds close to their home to allow their children run around while caregivers are on their phones ? Probably not!

Also you can't speak for all large dog owners. Most take dogs for walks but they realize dogs like off leash play with their friends. I see nothing wrong in allowing off leash get togethers when the field is not occupied with children.

As far as I know, leashes aren’t required for children in public areas. What a ridiculous comparison. Yes I allow my child to run off leash at a playground near my house. No I don’t let my dog do the same. Wtf?

I was referring to dog parks where you do not require leashes

I don't think anyone is against dog owners taking their dogs to specified off leash dog parks. The "lazy owners" comment was for people who just let their dog run around off leash in the nearest park to their house, so that it takes minimal effort on the part of the owner to not have to walk far or drive anywhere. Even if the park nearest to their house is NOT a dog park, but instead a normal community park with a baseball field and a playground. Those owners, who just let their dogs run wild around these parks, are lazy because when confronted about their off leash dog they state that their dog needs exercise and has perfect recall and is super friendly. (Exercise your dog legally- as in, with a leash, or at a dog park. I don't care about your dog with perfect recall and friendly demeanor, it is still terrifying my kids as it sprints up to them at full speed while you scroll your phone)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

How can they be lazy if they want to take their dogs on walks? Isn't that contradictory? Lazy people would stay at home! And it is reasonable to expect amenities in a community where you pay taxes.

But that’s the point- they don’t want to take them on walks. They want to stand around on their phone while their dog sprints off leash around a public park (but not the dog park, an amenity that their taxes also paid for, because their dog is too reactive for a dog park. They’d rather the dog terrorize children and joggers instead)

This.

There is a group of dog owners in my neighborhood working hard to colonize a playground/recreational field for their dogs. The playground and field have been in the neighborhood for 15 years. Many of us with kids moved here in part because it exists and is so convenient and big. All these dog owners either moved her in the last few years or just adopted dogs in the last few years (in most cases both) and they think it's deeply unfair that dogs are not allowed off leash at this park. After all, it would be so convenient to them to let their dogs run around off leash at this park. There are dog parks in the neighborhood but you have to walk further to get to them, something apparently none of these people considered before adopting their dogs.

Lazy AF.

Would you say parents are lazy AF if they want playgrounds close to their home to allow their children run around while caregivers are on their phones ? Probably not!

Also you can't speak for all large dog owners. Most take dogs for walks but they realize dogs like off leash play with their friends. I see nothing wrong in allowing off leash get togethers when the field is not occupied with children.

Children see your dogs sprinting around the playground and they are afraid to come. They walk back home. So how about you just follow the law and don’t do it. Go to a dog park, go to your backyard, go to a park that has off leash hours. Or give your dog to someone else. Or take it for a 5 mile run.

I don't do it. I have a back yard and I take him to sniff spots. But, I am not everyone and if it is 5am in the morning and no one is around why can't they let their dogs run around an open field ( as long as they pick up their poop)

Because sometimes people are jogging at 5am , for example, in that same park. And they don't want a random large dog running up to them. It can be terrifying. Why is it so hard to put a leash on your dog?? That's the real question. As you say, you have a yard. You take him to dog areas where off leash is fine. Why do you insist on him being off leash in an area where it is illegal?

[Anonymous]

Because the more developed a nation, the more removed it is from common sense usually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

How can they be lazy if they want to take their dogs on walks? Isn't that contradictory? Lazy people would stay at home! And it is reasonable to expect amenities in a community where you pay taxes.

But that’s the point- they don’t want to take them on walks. They want to stand around on their phone while their dog sprints off leash around a public park (but not the dog park, an amenity that their taxes also paid for, because their dog is too reactive for a dog park. They’d rather the dog terrorize children and joggers instead)

This.

There is a group of dog owners in my neighborhood working hard to colonize a playground/recreational field for their dogs. The playground and field have been in the neighborhood for 15 years. Many of us with kids moved here in part because it exists and is so convenient and big. All these dog owners either moved her in the last few years or just adopted dogs in the last few years (in most cases both) and they think it's deeply unfair that dogs are not allowed off leash at this park. After all, it would be so convenient to them to let their dogs run around off leash at this park. There are dog parks in the neighborhood but you have to walk further to get to them, something apparently none of these people considered before adopting their dogs.

Lazy AF.

Would you say parents are lazy AF if they want playgrounds close to their home to allow their children run around while caregivers are on their phones ? Probably not!

Also you can't speak for all large dog owners. Most take dogs for walks but they realize dogs like off leash play with their friends. I see nothing wrong in allowing off leash get togethers when the field is not occupied with children.

If a parent bought a home in a downtown business district and then tried to colonize a dog park across the street for their toddler, yes, I would say they were being entitled and lazy.

If you know your dog likes off leash time, why don't you take them to a place where they are allowed to be off leash? And what if the sight makes f multiple large dogs having an off leash "get together" deters families from using the park for its intended purpose? If a park is designated "no dogs" or "no dogs off leash" then that's what you do. You don't get to independently decide that rule doesn't apply to you because your giant dog needs some off leash time with his buddies.

[Anonymous]

Imagine if people started taking small kids to designated dog parks, plopping them down in the middle to play, and when dog owners politely pointed out "sorry, this area is actually designated for dogs," saying, "oh it's fine, my kid just really needs a place to play outside and this park is closest to my house."

Or imagine showing up to your neighborhood dog run and there are 6-7 teens smoking weed there and standing in the middle. Is this fine? They are just having a "get together" and sure it's TECHNICALLY illegal to smoke weed in the park like that, but they just need to chill and blow off steam.

That is the level of entitlement dog owners who decide parks that explicitly require leashes can be off leash dog parks sometimes are bringing to this conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if people started taking small kids to designated dog parks, plopping them down in the middle to play, and when dog owners politely pointed out "sorry, this area is actually designated for dogs," saying, "oh it's fine, my kid just really needs a place to play outside and this park is closest to my house."

Or imagine showing up to your neighborhood dog run and there are 6-7 teens smoking weed there and standing in the middle. Is this fine? They are just having a "get together" and sure it's TECHNICALLY illegal to smoke weed in the park like that, but they just need to chill and blow off steam.

That is the level of entitlement dog owners who decide parks that explicitly require leashes can be off leash dog parks sometimes are bringing to this conversation.

I mean, this all happens. A LOT. As a dog owner and mother I am mystified by the number of parents who throw their toddlers into the dog ring just waiting to be bowled over. It seems SO dumb but it's a daily thing because, "the baby likes puppies!" Also a lot of weird randos who show up to eff with dogs including teens. I am a supporter of hours for this reason. No dogs between 8am and 9pm where there would be conflict of dogs and people. But there should be some element of sharing. In DC at least, there is none, legally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if people started taking small kids to designated dog parks, plopping them down in the middle to play, and when dog owners politely pointed out "sorry, this area is actually designated for dogs," saying, "oh it's fine, my kid just really needs a place to play outside and this park is closest to my house."

Or imagine showing up to your neighborhood dog run and there are 6-7 teens smoking weed there and standing in the middle. Is this fine? They are just having a "get together" and sure it's TECHNICALLY illegal to smoke weed in the park like that, but they just need to chill and blow off steam.

That is the level of entitlement dog owners who decide parks that explicitly require leashes can be off leash dog parks sometimes are bringing to this conversation.

I mean, this all happens. A LOT. As a dog owner and mother I am mystified by the number of parents who throw their toddlers into the dog ring just waiting to be bowled over. It seems SO dumb but it's a daily thing because, "the baby likes puppies!" Also a lot of weird randos who show up to eff with dogs including teens. I am a supporter of hours for this reason. No dogs between 8am and 9pm where there would be conflict of dogs and people. But there should be some element of sharing. In DC at least, there is none, legally.

Well then let the toddler be bowled over. It’s not your problem. Just like if your off leash dog runs up to my kid on a playground I will spray it with bear spray and call animal control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if people started taking small kids to designated dog parks, plopping them down in the middle to play, and when dog owners politely pointed out "sorry, this area is actually designated for dogs," saying, "oh it's fine, my kid just really needs a place to play outside and this park is closest to my house."

Or imagine showing up to your neighborhood dog run and there are 6-7 teens smoking weed there and standing in the middle. Is this fine? They are just having a "get together" and sure it's TECHNICALLY illegal to smoke weed in the park like that, but they just need to chill and blow off steam.

That is the level of entitlement dog owners who decide parks that explicitly require leashes can be off leash dog parks sometimes are bringing to this conversation.

I mean, this all happens. A LOT. As a dog owner and mother I am mystified by the number of parents who throw their toddlers into the dog ring just waiting to be bowled over. It seems SO dumb but it's a daily thing because, "the baby likes puppies!" Also a lot of weird randos who show up to eff with dogs including teens. I am a supporter of hours for this reason. No dogs between 8am and 9pm where there would be conflict of dogs and people. But there should be some element of sharing. In DC at least, there is none, legally.

If you’re willing to bring your dog to run illegally off leash at 6am in a park, you can bring that same dog to the dog park at 6am and I guarantee no teenagers will be hanging out smoking pot at 6am messing with your dog.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

How can they be lazy if they want to take their dogs on walks? Isn't that contradictory? Lazy people would stay at home! And it is reasonable to expect amenities in a community where you pay taxes.

But that’s the point- they don’t want to take them on walks. They want to stand around on their phone while their dog sprints off leash around a public park (but not the dog park, an amenity that their taxes also paid for, because their dog is too reactive for a dog park. They’d rather the dog terrorize children and joggers instead)

This.

There is a group of dog owners in my neighborhood working hard to colonize a playground/recreational field for their dogs. The playground and field have been in the neighborhood for 15 years. Many of us with kids moved here in part because it exists and is so convenient and big. All these dog owners either moved her in the last few years or just adopted dogs in the last few years (in most cases both) and they think it's deeply unfair that dogs are not allowed off leash at this park. After all, it would be so convenient to them to let their dogs run around off leash at this park. There are dog parks in the neighborhood but you have to walk further to get to them, something apparently none of these people considered before adopting their dogs.

Lazy AF.

Would you say parents are lazy AF if they want playgrounds close to their home to allow their children run around while caregivers are on their phones ? Probably not!

Also you can't speak for all large dog owners. Most take dogs for walks but they realize dogs like off leash play with their friends. I see nothing wrong in allowing off leash get togethers when the field is not occupied with children.

Children see your dogs sprinting around the playground and they are afraid to come. They walk back home. So how about you just follow the law and don’t do it. Go to a dog park, go to your backyard, go to a park that has off leash hours. Or give your dog to someone else. Or take it for a 5 mile run.

I don't do it. I have a back yard and I take him to sniff spots. But, I am not everyone and if it is 5am in the morning and no one is around why can't they let their dogs run around an open field ( as long as they pick up their poop)

Because sometimes people are jogging at 5am , for example, in that same park. And they don't want a random large dog running up to them. It can be terrifying. Why is it so hard to put a leash on your dog?? That's the real question. As you say, you have a yard. You take him to dog areas where off leash is fine. Why do you insist on him being off leash in an area where it is illegal?

I do nothing illegal with my dog. I don't take him to fields and let him off leash. I don't take him on trails and let him off lead. Even though he has great recall I would never trust other dogs/people or put him in a situation that could go wrong.

I am defending those owners who do have good recall that they should be allowed to let their dogs off leash in a field if no one is around. It isn't lazy to want to be able to do this close to home just like it isn't lazy for parents to want a playground close to their home.

Just because I don't do it doesn't mean that other people shouldn't be allowed. And yes, dog's exercise differently when on a traditional walk vs running around sniffing and playing with their friends. Sure a solo jogger could surprise them but we all have to live in this world and if the dog is able to recall well than it shouldn't be illegal.

And no I am not talking about the owners who like to be on their phones and haven't trained their dog at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if people started taking small kids to designated dog parks, plopping them down in the middle to play, and when dog owners politely pointed out "sorry, this area is actually designated for dogs," saying, "oh it's fine, my kid just really needs a place to play outside and this park is closest to my house."

Or imagine showing up to your neighborhood dog run and there are 6-7 teens smoking weed there and standing in the middle. Is this fine? They are just having a "get together" and sure it's TECHNICALLY illegal to smoke weed in the park like that, but they just need to chill and blow off steam.

That is the level of entitlement dog owners who decide parks that explicitly require leashes can be off leash dog parks sometimes are bringing to this conversation.

I mean, this all happens. A LOT. As a dog owner and mother I am mystified by the number of parents who throw their toddlers into the dog ring just waiting to be bowled over. It seems SO dumb but it's a daily thing because, "the baby likes puppies!" Also a lot of weird randos who show up to eff with dogs including teens. I am a supporter of hours for this reason. No dogs between 8am and 9pm where there would be conflict of dogs and people. But there should be some element of sharing. In DC at least, there is none, legally.

If you’re willing to bring your dog to run illegally off leash at 6am in a park, you can bring that same dog to the dog park at 6am and I guarantee no teenagers will be hanging out smoking pot at 6am messing with your dog.

Dog parks aren't great but, could be manged better if you had to pay and have someone check your dog to see if it is trained or can play well with others. Dog parks are dangerous.