Flying first/ business class

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:About six years ago I was flying economy from SFO to ORD and I had an aisle seat. In the middle seat was a 300 pounder who couldn’t help but spread out leaving me to lean over the aisle for five hours getting hit by carts and people walking by. The next morning my neck and back hurt like hell. I had recently retired and we are very high NW. Now I fly first class and while I hunt for the best deal I’m not flying in economy. I’m too old, too wealthy and too tired of flying in what has become a cattle car.

Airlines should charge by the pound. They charge for extra luggage!

Airlines should have each passenger get on the scale with all their luggage, including personal items, coats and carryons. Any passenger whose total body and luggage weight exceeds the
allowance should pay by the pound.

So we should publicly fat shame? Great idea! I can't imagine any knock on consequences from that.

We should definately not publicly fat shame. But the airlines should require anyone who does not fit in their seat to purchase a 2nd seat (or purchase first class to fit). It's not my fault you are too big for the seat and I should not be required to let you encroach on my seat. I paid for my seat and my space, I didn't pay for only 75% of my seat

Does this go for manspreaders too? Because I can guarantee you that inconsiderate men who "need" to cross or spread their legs have taken up my space on airline seats far more than fat people who are generally quite considerate about space on airline seats. As in, they notice how much space they are taking and try to be considerate.

It goes for everyone! I paid for my seat and my space. You need to keep yourself in your space, and if you cannot, then you need to pay for 2 seats/first/business or whatever you require to stay in your own space. I call out man spreaders sitting next to me just as much as I will put down the armrest between me and the person next to me. My space includes the area between my seat and the seat in front of me.

Yes, many overweight people are considerate and aware, but the fact is if you cannot fit into the seat with the armrest down, then you don't fit into the seat and should purchase 2 seats. It's not being mean. It's just reality. You don't get to inconvenience others for an extended period of time, no matter what the reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People who only fly business must not travel very much or they enjoy lighting money on fire. Tickets to biz class to Europe are 8-12k which is sometimes 11200 per ticket more than flying in economy. Maybe a spouse flies so much you have a ton of points, but if you’re spending full freight 11200 more per person for a 7 hour flight you need to get an examination. I, too, have paid out of pocket for business class tickets but would never be so frivolous.

How many of you business class only passengers delight in bragging about driving a 15 year old Camry because the millionaire next door book is your bible?

Absolutely no one paying cash for business class seats subscribed to the Millionaire Next Door. It goes against everything the book stands for. Points and miles hacking would fit in though. However we are big on points and miles and still fly mostly economy just because anything under 6-7 hours I don’t find BC worth unless it’s an overnight. That leaves us more points for even more trips. The extra points I would spend on 4 BC tickets would pay for 8 nights in a high end hotel.

[Anonymous]

NP
I am not comfortable choosing the exorbitant first class prices now but we splurge hard on accommodations, food, activities and shopping while traveling. I wonder if people who choose first cut back in those areas?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:750k hhi we do business for most flights, though we often put the kids (late teens) in economy. I have a bad back so flying economy can be very painful/dangerous for me.

You also have a bad heart - shoving your kids in economy while lounging in style.

Why a "bad heart"? When the kids earn the money to pay for first/business they are free to purchase it themselves. Until then, they should be appreciative of just going on the trip/vacation.

DP. I would never leave my kids behind in economy. Some people sound so selfish.

Why not? Is your 12 yo or 16 yo not capable of behaving without you right next to them?

I'm getting too old to sit in economy plus for a long flight, when I have the $$$ to upgrade. So we sit in first/business. The teen doesn't need us to spend an extra $3-4K for them to sit in business. Sure they'd like it, but they are a teen and there's a lot they "like" that they don't get.

I only upgrade myself when I can upgrade my 10 year old. You're a bad parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:750k hhi we do business for most flights, though we often put the kids (late teens) in economy. I have a bad back so flying economy can be very painful/dangerous for me.

You also have a bad heart - shoving your kids in economy while lounging in style.

Why a "bad heart"? When the kids earn the money to pay for first/business they are free to purchase it themselves. Until then, they should be appreciative of just going on the trip/vacation.

DP. I would never leave my kids behind in economy. Some people sound so selfish.

Why not? Is your 12 yo or 16 yo not capable of behaving without you right next to them?

I'm getting too old to sit in economy plus for a long flight, when I have the $$$ to upgrade. So we sit in first/business. The teen doesn't need us to spend an extra $3-4K for them to sit in business. Sure they'd like it, but they are a teen and there's a lot they "like" that they don't get.

I only upgrade myself when I can upgrade my 10 year old. You're a bad parent.

Not at all!

You are just missing out on life and helicoptering. My kids have learned they are not entitled to all the luxury splurges the parents are. I was 30 before I went to Europe. They first went at 8 and 12, and did a major international trip for a month at 5 and 9. Kids are just happy to get to travel so extensively—we could just leave them at home with grandparents (which we did do for some trips)

In 2 years or so you can easily leave your kid in coach. However we did it with our TwO kids so they were not alone—had each other and are well behaved. Once oldest went to college we left the 14-15 yo+ alone in economy plus—they were fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People who only fly business must not travel very much or they enjoy lighting money on fire. Tickets to biz class to Europe are 8-12k which is sometimes 11200 per ticket more than flying in economy. Maybe a spouse flies so much you have a ton of points, but if you’re spending full freight 11200 more per person for a 7 hour flight you need to get an examination.

Then you're not planning if you're paying that much. We're flying 4 of us to Europe in business class for $2,500 round-trip this summer. Bought tickets last October.

Even flying to Frankfurt, leaving IAD on Friday (4/26) and coming back next week is $4,822 in business class on TAP via Lisbon. Yes a non-stop on United is $10,700, but that's for a flight leaving less than 48 hours from now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who only fly business must not travel very much or they enjoy lighting money on fire. Tickets to biz class to Europe are 8-12k which is sometimes 11200 per ticket more than flying in economy. Maybe a spouse flies so much you have a ton of points, but if you’re spending full freight 11200 more per person for a 7 hour flight you need to get an examination. I, too, have paid out of pocket for business class tickets but would never be so frivolous.

How many of you business class only passengers delight in bragging about driving a 15 year old Camry because the millionaire next door book is your bible?

Absolutely no one paying cash for business class seats subscribed to the Millionaire Next Door. It goes against everything the book stands for. Points and miles hacking would fit in though. However we are big on points and miles and still fly mostly economy just because anything under 6-7 hours I don’t find BC worth unless it’s an overnight. That leaves us more points for even more trips. The extra points I would spend on 4 BC tickets would pay for 8 nights in a high end hotel.

We are close. We did not specifically subscribe to the millionaire next door, but we certainly do many of the things talked about in the book. Now we are 60 and have seemingly over saved and as a result we are loosening the purse strings. So, when we flew to Norway last year we bought one full price Polaris and one on points- the one ticket was $4k. This year we took both our kids to Iceland and bought Saga for all of us. It really made a difference for us. Our older son is 6’3” and has quite a bit a trouble in economy seats and that was a factor. Now, we will not pay the exorbitant Polaris this year; however, I bought Economy Premium for my upcoming trip to Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP
I am not comfortable choosing the exorbitant first class prices now but we splurge hard on accommodations, food, activities and shopping while traveling. I wonder if people who choose first cut back in those areas?

No, we can afford all of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP
I am not comfortable choosing the exorbitant first class prices now but we splurge hard on accommodations, food, activities and shopping while traveling. I wonder if people who choose first cut back in those areas?

No, we can afford all of it.

My threshold hhi would need to be over 2m to choose first regularly.

I might feel differently if my kids weren't such good travelers or if we had mobility issues or if it was only a once a year trip. I do prefer first but not by a margin of 2k+ per ticket. We even did economy plus to Asia twice and I still don't understand why posters here act like that is unthinkable. We all end up at the same baggage claim, if there was a first class baggage claim with superior service I would not think twice about upgrading to that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Assuming that you don’t track airline miles at what income level would you start regularly flying first/ business class for just regular vacation.

Assume 2 adults and 3 kids.

Is your number based on actual experience having reached it or is it a hypothetical question only for you at this point?

Our HHI is $575K and NW is $7.5M. We never fly coach. Not ever. If a particular flight doesn’t have business class or first class (usually small regional flights), we won’t even take it. I’d rather fly at a different time of day or to a nearby city. Our family of five flies about 6 times per year. Half domestic, half international. DH flies for business 1-2 times per month in addition to our personal travel. Always business or first.

Dealing with all the clueless and unprepared people that don’t regularly travel, the overcrowded club lounges, the chaotic boarding processes, the fake service animals, the lying and self-proclaimed disabled and military travelers pushing to the front of the line, the 3+ year-old lap children, the mediocre service, the bulkhead diaper changing, the garbage on-board food, etc…. It’s all too much. The only stress reliever is knowing that at least on-board we’ll have a reasonably elevated and comfortable experience. Couldn’t handle it otherwise.

We have a dedicated divided ETF that generates about $6K per month after taxes to help offset cost differences between coach and first.

Which ETF?

5 people have asked this and the Indian ghosted us all

I can't decide if that post was satire or not. The idea of having a dedicated part of your portfolio, solely to "offset cost differences between coach and first" sure sounded ridiculous!

Not satire. During the early days of the pandemic we bought 50,000 shares of VYMI @ $45 per share. Wanted to simultaneously take advantage of low stock prices and generate a steady stream of income to counter once per year unpredictable bonuses and to pay for things like fine dining, business class airfare, luxury hotels, etc…. Now at $66 / share, so up almost 50% in 4 years. Plus we’ve generated about $550K in passive income in four years, averaging about $34K each quarter. Not bad. Otherwise we have another $750K in home equity, $3M in retirement savings (mostly VTI / VUG), and another $500K in 529/HSA/HYSA savings.

We mostly bought a dividend ETF just because the stock market had tanked and it was on sale and we wanted to diversify.

So net ~$200k less than if you had put $2.25 million in s&p500 4 years ago. It has gone up 81% since April 21, 2020.

PP here. Not exactly. We invested $2.25M in VYMI in April 2020, but unlike so many others, that same $2.25M was worth $2.25M in January 2020 as well. We didn’t lose huge sums of money from January to April like everyone invested in the S&P 500 did. So, we’re still up 50% over a 4.5 year period during which the S&P 500 is up only 52%. Plus we have all our dividends.

Smarter to buy low and sell high than to blindly follow some index. It’s what empowers us to always fly first and business class while all the others are struggling to find comfort and dignity in steerage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming that you don’t track airline miles at what income level would you start regularly flying first/ business class for just regular vacation.

Assume 2 adults and 3 kids.

Is your number based on actual experience having reached it or is it a hypothetical question only for you at this point?

Our HHI is $575K and NW is $7.5M. We never fly coach. Not ever. If a particular flight doesn’t have business class or first class (usually small regional flights), we won’t even take it. I’d rather fly at a different time of day or to a nearby city. Our family of five flies about 6 times per year. Half domestic, half international. DH flies for business 1-2 times per month in addition to our personal travel. Always business or first.

Dealing with all the clueless and unprepared people that don’t regularly travel, the overcrowded club lounges, the chaotic boarding processes, the fake service animals, the lying and self-proclaimed disabled and military travelers pushing to the front of the line, the 3+ year-old lap children, the mediocre service, the bulkhead diaper changing, the garbage on-board food, etc…. It’s all too much. The only stress reliever is knowing that at least on-board we’ll have a reasonably elevated and comfortable experience. Couldn’t handle it otherwise.

We have a dedicated divided ETF that generates about $6K per month after taxes to help offset cost differences between coach and first.

Which ETF?

5 people have asked this and the Indian ghosted us all

I can't decide if that post was satire or not. The idea of having a dedicated part of your portfolio, solely to "offset cost differences between coach and first" sure sounded ridiculous!

Not satire. During the early days of the pandemic we bought 50,000 shares of VYMI @ $45 per share. Wanted to simultaneously take advantage of low stock prices and generate a steady stream of income to counter once per year unpredictable bonuses and to pay for things like fine dining, business class airfare, luxury hotels, etc…. Now at $66 / share, so up almost 50% in 4 years. Plus we’ve generated about $550K in passive income in four years, averaging about $34K each quarter. Not bad. Otherwise we have another $750K in home equity, $3M in retirement savings (mostly VTI / VUG), and another $500K in 529/HSA/HYSA savings.

We mostly bought a dividend ETF just because the stock market had tanked and it was on sale and we wanted to diversify.

So net ~$200k less than if you had put $2.25 million in s&p500 4 years ago. It has gone up 81% since April 21, 2020.

PP here. Not exactly. We invested $2.25M in VYMI in April 2020, but unlike so many others, that same $2.25M was worth $2.25M in January 2020 as well. We didn’t lose huge sums of money from January to April like everyone invested in the S&P 500 did. So, we’re still up 50% over a 4.5 year period during which the S&P 500 is up only 52%. Plus we have all our dividends.

Smarter to buy low and sell high than to blindly follow some index. It’s what empowers us to always fly first and business class while all the others are struggling to find comfort and dignity in steerage.

I didn't lose anything from Jan-Apr 2020 because I didn't sell anything then.

But yes, buying low and selling high is a good strategy. Impressed that you came up with that out of the blue, I've never heard of it before.

I think having $2.25 million in cash available to invest was the key here, not what you invested it in.

[Anonymous]

HHI $1M. International trips (one-two per year average) are almost always business class. Usually with points, occasionally pay out of pocket if it’s a good deal. Will do premium economy if business is insanely expensive, but can’t bring myself to go back to full economy for 8-hour plus overnight flights.

Domestic, though, basically don’t care. Lay-flat seats are far less essential if I’m not trying to sleep overnight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who only fly business must not travel very much or they enjoy lighting money on fire. Tickets to biz class to Europe are 8-12k which is sometimes 11200 per ticket more than flying in economy. Maybe a spouse flies so much you have a ton of points, but if you’re spending full freight 11200 more per person for a 7 hour flight you need to get an examination. I, too, have paid out of pocket for business class tickets but would never be so frivolous.

How many of you business class only passengers delight in bragging about driving a 15 year old Camry because the millionaire next door book is your bible?

Absolutely no one paying cash for business class seats subscribed to the Millionaire Next Door. It goes against everything the book stands for. Points and miles hacking would fit in though. However we are big on points and miles and still fly mostly economy just because anything under 6-7 hours I don’t find BC worth unless it’s an overnight. That leaves us more points for even more trips. The extra points I would spend on 4 BC tickets would pay for 8 nights in a high end hotel.

Except for the poster above paying 6k per ticket (which doesn’t even exist anymore) to go on business class but drives an 11 year old car - a thing that actually serves a valuable utility in your life and that will eventually break and need to be replaced, a cost that the poster has spent a high multiple of just buying airline tickets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who only fly business must not travel very much or they enjoy lighting money on fire. Tickets to biz class to Europe are 8-12k which is sometimes 11200 per ticket more than flying in economy. Maybe a spouse flies so much you have a ton of points, but if you’re spending full freight 11200 more per person for a 7 hour flight you need to get an examination. I, too, have paid out of pocket for business class tickets but would never be so frivolous.

How many of you business class only passengers delight in bragging about driving a 15 year old Camry because the millionaire next door book is your bible?

Absolutely no one paying cash for business class seats subscribed to the Millionaire Next Door. It goes against everything the book stands for. Points and miles hacking would fit in though. However we are big on points and miles and still fly mostly economy just because anything under 6-7 hours I don’t find BC worth unless it’s an overnight. That leaves us more points for even more trips. The extra points I would spend on 4 BC tickets would pay for 8 nights in a high end hotel.

Except for the poster above paying 6k per ticket (which doesn’t even exist anymore) to go on business class but drives an 11 year old car - a thing that actually serves a valuable utility in your life and that will eventually break and need to be replaced, a cost that the poster has spent a high multiple of just buying airline tickets.

Paid cash for that 11 yo car. It runs fine, no issues so why would u ditch it?

Have the cash to buy anew 75k car when I need one.

Cars are important but if mine is safe and reliable why would I ditch it?
I can afford both business class and a new car but I won’t buy a new car until my old one starts having issues

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who only fly business must not travel very much or they enjoy lighting money on fire. Tickets to biz class to Europe are 8-12k which is sometimes 11200 per ticket more than flying in economy. Maybe a spouse flies so much you have a ton of points, but if you’re spending full freight 11200 more per person for a 7 hour flight you need to get an examination. I, too, have paid out of pocket for business class tickets but would never be so frivolous.

How many of you business class only passengers delight in bragging about driving a 15 year old Camry because the millionaire next door book is your bible?

Absolutely no one paying cash for business class seats subscribed to the Millionaire Next Door. It goes against everything the book stands for. Points and miles hacking would fit in though. However we are big on points and miles and still fly mostly economy just because anything under 6-7 hours I don’t find BC worth unless it’s an overnight. That leaves us more points for even more trips. The extra points I would spend on 4 BC tickets would pay for 8 nights in a high end hotel.

Except for the poster above paying 6k per ticket (which doesn’t even exist anymore) to go on business class but drives an 11 year old car - a thing that actually serves a valuable utility in your life and that will eventually break and need to be replaced, a cost that the poster has spent a high multiple of just buying airline tickets.

I just did a few searches for random sets of dates this July/August round trip direct from IAD to Paris, London and Madrid on United and found numerous options for each in the $4000.

Yes there are significantly higher exceptions for peak/last minute flights but most people are greatly exaggerating the average cost.