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Parenting -- Special Concerns
Q for divorced/separated moms: how did your husband react when you asked for divorce or separation?
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Anonymous
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OP,
I've posted twice suggesting you see an attorney and I realize now that my posts were highly legalistic when in addition to being a legal process divorce with children is a profoundly emotional experience and it can take years for a couple to complete the emotional divorce. I am curious about your hesitation to see a lawyer on emotional grounds. Are you sure you want a divorce? It sounds like yes, but that consulting a lawyer will be one more step closer to starting that process. Which is understandable. I also wonder about the children. If you are not seeing a therapist, perhaps you should at this juncture to help you figure out what makes sense. And yes I think you need to see a lawyer, if only to find one you like/ Do a consult or two if you don't want to work with the first one. I know several couples who divorced and the husband moved around assets. People can become different people in a divorce, and yes they all love their children etc. |
Anonymous
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If your DH is a lawyer, you DOUBLY need to get a lawyer. No matter how nice and fair and reasonable a person usually is, when it comes to divorce it can get very ugly very quickly. He may be manipulating financial or other factors right now so the divorce will work out in his favor.
Please, please see a lawyer to find out how to get the legal separation started. You should probably present him with a copy of a PSA (Property Settlement Agreement) which incorporates all of the things that would go into your final divorce settlement - custody, support, division of property, etc. Check the online support calculators to find out how much you should expect. Are you the primary caregiver, do you work? If you don't work, DON'T go back to work yet. Get the book, "what every woman needs to know about divorce". You will be lucky if this works out as calmly and amicably as you seem to think it will but, you should hope for the best and PREPARE FOR THE WORST. Don't get lulled into a false sense of security. You need to put your child's interests first and that means being a strong, educated advocate for both of you. Do you want your depressed ex to end up with custody or half-time custody if he can't even get out of bed on the weekends? |
Anonymous
"HOW do you do this?", asks this mom who would like to manipulate factors in my favor now. Please share stories! |
Anonymous
| A wife or a husband can hide assets, move assets into bank accounts and then not disclose them in negotiations. Many divorcing couples do NOT have in-depth audits done because they are very expensive. As for child support, I know my ex is lying about his salary and other income and we are years out of our divorce and yes he loves our child but on some levels he is cheap and selfish. |
Anonymous
| PP who wants to manipulate: It's not so easy to do with household finances since accounts are often joint and there's a transaction trail. The stories I know involve entrepreneurs who made their businesses look less profitable. |
Anonymous
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OP, I think that your husband needs medical help. Can you speak with his psychiatrist and express your concerns? The stopping meds, not being able to get out of bed, etc, are the untreated major depression.
Is it possible that your husband has Asperger's? If so, that may be the root of much of your/his problems and it can get better with the right kind of help. Insight oriented therapy isn't likely to be as helpful if that is the problem. |
Anonymous
This is another example of something you can put in your divorce agreement - annual COLA adjustments, annual salary review (or total compensation review) substantiated by a W2. But I am no lawyer so please find out about this! |
Anonymous
Cash. Start withdrawing money, and keeping it. It adds up. hard to say without knowing your finances, but start moving money around. Open up accounts in your name only, and have parts of your paycheck deposited there. When you go to the grocery store, or any store, always get extra cash out, and depost that into a single account. It will look as if you bought groceries, but you keep the money. Like a PP said, only an indepth audit will reveal it, but most people don't do that. |
Anonymous
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10:58 Sorry but I strongly disagree. Her husband can see the withdrawals with all joint accounts. Sure saving from her paycheck is fine, but it's all considered a marital asset, even individual accounts -- he might find statements in the mail or if she does electronic banking he might check her online history and get suspicious. Every cent a spouse earns and every toothbrush a family buys during a marriage is technically a marital asset. The exception is inheritance. For child support, you can't hide income.
Yes my ex is supposed to show me his tax returns but he hasn't done it in several years and for me to get him to would take several thousand in legal fees and that's going through mediation, not court. OP I agree that a priority should be addressing his depression. It sounds pretty bad. |
Anonymous
| I thought that tax returns were publicly accessible documents? That really you could look up anybody's tax return info? Isn't that how they report on the tax returns of famous people/politicians each year? |
Anonymous
| 13:09 Are you serious? There are disclosure requirements and expectations for elected officials but after that that information is supposed to be private, IRS officials would get fired if they divulged what they say on people's returns. It must be tempting for an IRS employee looking at someone like Brad Pitt's tax return and knowing some tab would pay a bundle for it but you'd lose your job. Anyway, would you want people having access to your returns? I would not. |
Anonymous
| what they SAW. Sorry for the typo. |
Anonymous
Nope. Non-profit organizations are the ONLY entities with publicly accessible tax returns. |
Anonymous
| And as I noted above elected officials are expected to disclose theirs, I'm not sure if they are legally obligated to do so. |
Anonymous
I was in the same situation with my now-ex. He had bipolar, not major depression as you seem to indicate yours does. In your situation, I would recommend -- 1) Contacting your husband's pdoc who was treating him for depression. Convey the signs you see -- hypersomnia, withdrawal, irritability, frequent complaints about being ill, gone off meds, refuses therapy -- and tell the pdoc that it is so serious that you have raised the possibility of divorce. Ask the pdoc to follow up with your husband and try to get him to come in. If your husband is NOT seeing a pdoc, he should be. Depression is a serious but treatable illness and many people have to try a number of meds or treatment approaches to find the thing that works. Counseling in the absence of medication is IMO an absolute waste of time. Your husband can't even begin to benefit from therapy if he is not getting treatment. Kind of like asking a diabetic to get nutritional counseling while not offering insulin. If your husband's doc refuses to hear from you that is a BAD sign. All the best practices of care call for physicians managing depression to get input from family members because it is well known that many people with mood disorders are unable to accurately report their moods. A good/sensitive doc can navigate HIPPAA/privacy laws and still get input from you and reach out to your husband. 2) You have to think about/formulate what you want right now and what you want in the long term. If you are at the end of your rope, it is OK to divorce, but you will still be tied to this person, and I can tell you from personal experience, that your divorced life and the lives of your kids will be better if your husband gets treatment. Formulate your plan -- asking him for a separation, to move out or straight to divorce, whatever you need. 3) See an attorney for at least 2 hours. Get that person to go through the elements of a divorce custody and property agreement with you & the major decisions that have to be made. 4) Sit down with your husband. Give him your boundaries that you decided in 2 and follow up as you have stated. (i.e. "I want you to move out by X". Or "I am concerned about you because you still seem depressed and we can't live like this, you have an appointment with the doctor on X day." "If you don't do X I will file for divorce." "I have talked with an attorney and these are the outlines I propose for a settlement. I will have my attorney draw up a proposed settlement agreement based on what we have discussed." Whatever your boundaries are, you have to state them, state the consequences of hubby not respecting them and follow through.) 5) If you still want this to work out (and if you don't, that's ok), then you have to try to calmly send him the message at every opportunity -- you aren't your old self, you don't seem happy, we can't live like this, you/we have to get help, help can make things better. 6) consider contacting the state bar association and ask them what help is available for attorneys with personal problems. There's usually something called a "lawyer's assistance program" and sometimes peer mentors are available to confidentially mentor attorneys with depression and/or their family members (that's YOU). See http://www.dcbar.org/for_lawyers/bar_services/counseling/about.cfm BTW, consulting an attorney doesn't have to be done jointly. You don't even have to tell your husband you've done it if you don't want, but you DO need to DO it. Also, please consider getting into a support group for spouses of those with depression or other mental illnesses. NAMI and DBSA offer them. NAMI also offers an excellent 12 week course called Family to Family. BTW, in answer to your original question, my husband was shell-shocked when I finally asked him to move out of the house. He did not understand the situation until I came to him and said, "I want you to move out this Friday. You can come pickup a suitcase Friday during the day while the kids are at school. You can stay with your brother or your friend X or in a hotel until you can find an apartment. You can come over and see the kids X, Y and Z days and I will come back to you in a few weeks with a proposed separation agreement we can discuss." He seriously did not understand how far his behavior had deteriorated and how it affected us nor did he understand how serious I was about ending our relationship, despite the fact that I had made myself clear in private to him and together with therapists. Fortunately, he later hooked up with a better pdoc than the one he had at the time (who misdiagnosed and mistreated him) and he is doing better, but unfortunately it is too late for our relationship. Good luck |