Trump's proposed immigration plan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should follow Japan's example and quit letting anyone in!

#MAGA!!!! No immigration period!!!!

^^^ I suspect this is a liberal! trying to make conservatives look unreasonable.

Wow! You can actually think!

Yes. Although liberals keep saying otherwise, there are many intelligent conservatives.

Sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For reference:


"Here are the four pillars of our plan:

The first pillar of our framework generously offers a path to citizenship for 1.8 million illegal immigrants who were brought here by their parents at a young age — that covers almost three times more people than the previous administration covered. Under our plan, those who meet education and work requirements, and show good moral character, will be able to become full citizens of the United States over a 12-year period.

The second pillar fully secures the border. That means building a great wall on the Southern border, and it means hiring more heroes like CJ to keep our communities safe. Crucially, our plan closes the terrible loopholes exploited by criminals and terrorists to enter our country — and it finally ends the horrible and dangerous practice of “catch and release.”

The third pillar ends the visa lottery — a program that randomly hands out green cards without any regard for skill, merit or the safety of American people. It is time to begin moving towards a merit-based immigration system — one that admits people who are skilled, who want to work, who will contribute to our society, and who will love and respect our country.

The fourth and final pillar protects the nuclear family by ending chain migration. Under the current broken system, a single immigrant can bring in virtually unlimited numbers of distant relatives. Under our plan, we focus on the immediate family by limiting sponsorships to spouses and minor children. This vital reform is necessary, not just for our economy, but for our security, and for the future of America."

I am a liberal Democrat and I would be open to this, generally.

HOWEVER

This isn't true:
"Under the current broken system, a single immigrant can bring in virtually unlimited numbers of distant relatives."

If this compromise is to work, we have to be talking about the facts. And that isn't one.

and this:

Crucially, our plan closes the terrible loopholes exploited by criminals and terrorists to enter our country

What loophole is he talking about?

The third pillar ends the visa lottery — a program that randomly hands out green cards without any regard for skill, merit or the safety of American people. It is time to begin moving towards a merit-based immigration system — one that admits people who are skilled, who want to work, who will contribute to our society, and who will love and respect our country.

1. How do you know who will "love" this country? That's a ridiculous criteria
2. If we go based on what industry needs more workers, it's not the highly skilled per Trump. It's the low skilled workers. Just ask the R farmers and Trump's resorts. Hence the increase in the H2B visas by Trump. According to many Trumpsters, we don't need anymore high tech skilled workers, hence the desire for them to kill the H1B program.
It's like two sides of their mouths talking, and I don't know which one to follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is quite a generous offer from Trump. He is offering a path to citizenship not only to the 800,000 DACA adults but to the broader dreamers, as well, around 2 million (I believe.).

What he asks from Democrats is all perfect sense: a wall to discourage illegals, a stop to the ridiculous "chain" migration where one immigrant can bring over a slew of relatives, and merit-based immigration to help see that new immigrants are likely to be able to support themselves and contribute to their new country.

It's a wonderful compromise offer, and I hope Democrats are willing to engage in compromise.

Was it ridiculous "chain" immigration when Melania Trump brought her parents over?

It's the "shut door behind me" policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1st pillar: This has been a non-starter with Republicans in the past. Is it really a starter this time?

2nd pillar: Can we just stop it with the wall thing? Increase funding of measures that actually work and use the rest to benefit Americans.

3rd pillar: Currently the vast majority of immigration is "merit based". This is the H1B visas that Republicans rail against.

4th pillar: The problem is the disconnect between what some Americans think of as immediate family members and what the majority of cultures around the world think of as immediate family members.

+1

#2 More illegal immigrants come from visa over stays than from crossing the border illegally. The wall has very low ROI. Even some Rs realize this. For a "smart" business man, Trump doesn't seem to understand the basic business concept of an ROI. As an Independent, if he can *really* make MX pay for the wall, then fine. But I DO NOT want my tax dollars going for this useless thing.

#3 I really have a problem with this one. I work in IT. Many of the H1B workers I've worked with usually apply for a greencard on day one. Also, Trump and his followers want to get rid of H1B. If you make immigration merit based, and we let in all the high tech workers who want to come here, there's not that much difference than what we have today. Trumpsters keep saying we don't need H1B high tech workers. So, does this mean that Trump's merit based immigration plan won't include high tech workers?

#4 - why was it OK that Melania brought her sisters and elderly parents into this country, but someone from MX can't do the same?

[Anonymous]

Yeah for DACA. The wall is a useless waste of money and should be spent on tech savvy solutions.

Real problem nobody is addressing is how to resolve the immigration status of the rest of the 11 million, some here for 20 years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1st pillar: This has been a non-starter with Republicans in the past. Is it really a starter this time?

2nd pillar: Can we just stop it with the wall thing? Increase funding of measures that actually work and use the rest to benefit Americans.

3rd pillar: Currently the vast majority of immigration is "merit based". This is the H1B visas that Republicans rail against.

4th pillar: The problem is the disconnect between what some Americans think of as immediate family members and what the majority of cultures around the world think of as immediate family members.

+1

#2 More illegal immigrants come from visa over stays than from crossing the border illegally. The wall has very low ROI. Even some Rs realize this. For a "smart" business man, Trump doesn't seem to understand the basic business concept of an ROI. As an Independent, if he can *really* make MX pay for the wall, then fine. But I DO NOT want my tax dollars going for this useless thing.

#3 I really have a problem with this one. I work in IT. Many of the H1B workers I've worked with usually apply for a greencard on day one. Also, Trump and his followers want to get rid of H1B. If you make immigration merit based, and we let in all the high tech workers who want to come here, there's not that much difference than what we have today. Trumpsters keep saying we don't need H1B high tech workers. So, does this mean that Trump's merit based immigration plan won't include high tech workers?

#4 - why was it OK that Melania brought her sisters and elderly parents into this country, but someone from MX can't do the same?

#2; Have you heard how many illegal immigrants (many of whom are children) have crossed the border in the past few years alone? Tens of thousands if not more, a year....I'm okay with having a wall to prevent this from happening.
#4: Why can't those people fall in line like the rest of the people in line? Why should extended family members have a special privilege? I don't get it and I'm an immigrant.
I think the proposal is great and the Dems would be foolish not to take it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1st pillar: This has been a non-starter with Republicans in the past. Is it really a starter this time?

2nd pillar: Can we just stop it with the wall thing? Increase funding of measures that actually work and use the rest to benefit Americans.

3rd pillar: Currently the vast majority of immigration is "merit based". This is the H1B visas that Republicans rail against.

4th pillar: The problem is the disconnect between what some Americans think of as immediate family members and what the majority of cultures around the world think of as immediate family members.

+1

#2 More illegal immigrants come from visa over stays than from crossing the border illegally. The wall has very low ROI. Even some Rs realize this. For a "smart" business man, Trump doesn't seem to understand the basic business concept of an ROI. As an Independent, if he can *really* make MX pay for the wall, then fine. But I DO NOT want my tax dollars going for this useless thing.

#3 I really have a problem with this one. I work in IT. Many of the H1B workers I've worked with usually apply for a greencard on day one. Also, Trump and his followers want to get rid of H1B. If you make immigration merit based, and we let in all the high tech workers who want to come here, there's not that much difference than what we have today. Trumpsters keep saying we don't need H1B high tech workers. So, does this mean that Trump's merit based immigration plan won't include high tech workers?

#4 - why was it OK that Melania brought her sisters and elderly parents into this country, but someone from MX can't do the same?

#2; Have you heard how many illegal immigrants (many of whom are children) have crossed the border in the past few years alone? Tens of thousands if not more, a year....I'm okay with having a wall to prevent this from happening.
#4: Why can't those people fall in line like the rest of the people in line? Why should extended family members have a special privilege? I don't get it and I'm an immigrant.
I think the proposal is great and the Dems would be foolish not to take it.

There already is a wall across most of the accessible parts of the border. There are physical landscape issues and also land ownership issues that preclude a wall on the rest of the border -- and Trump cannot solve those problems.

[Anonymous]

Let's not also forget that Trump continues to change his mind, multiple back and forths on this issue. His credibility is low and it is hard to take him at his word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1st pillar: This has been a non-starter with Republicans in the past. Is it really a starter this time?

2nd pillar: Can we just stop it with the wall thing? Increase funding of measures that actually work and use the rest to benefit Americans.

3rd pillar: Currently the vast majority of immigration is "merit based". This is the H1B visas that Republicans rail against.

4th pillar: The problem is the disconnect between what some Americans think of as immediate family members and what the majority of cultures around the world think of as immediate family members.

+1

#2 More illegal immigrants come from visa over stays than from crossing the border illegally. The wall has very low ROI. Even some Rs realize this. For a "smart" business man, Trump doesn't seem to understand the basic business concept of an ROI. As an Independent, if he can *really* make MX pay for the wall, then fine. But I DO NOT want my tax dollars going for this useless thing.

#3 I really have a problem with this one. I work in IT. Many of the H1B workers I've worked with usually apply for a greencard on day one. Also, Trump and his followers want to get rid of H1B. If you make immigration merit based, and we let in all the high tech workers who want to come here, there's not that much difference than what we have today. Trumpsters keep saying we don't need H1B high tech workers. So, does this mean that Trump's merit based immigration plan won't include high tech workers?

#4 - why was it OK that Melania brought her sisters and elderly parents into this country, but someone from MX can't do the same?

#2; Have you heard how many illegal immigrants (many of whom are children) have crossed the border in the past few years alone? Tens of thousands if not more, a year....I'm okay with having a wall to prevent this from happening.
#4: Why can't those people fall in line like the rest of the people in line? Why should extended family members have a special privilege? I don't get it and I'm an immigrant.
I think the proposal is great and the Dems would be foolish not to take it.

Most of those kids were brought over on tourist visas. A wall won't stop them. Duh.

Let's use our brains for a few seconds, OK?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1st pillar: This has been a non-starter with Republicans in the past. Is it really a starter this time?

2nd pillar: Can we just stop it with the wall thing? Increase funding of measures that actually work and use the rest to benefit Americans.

3rd pillar: Currently the vast majority of immigration is "merit based". This is the H1B visas that Republicans rail against.

4th pillar: The problem is the disconnect between what some Americans think of as immediate family members and what the majority of cultures around the world think of as immediate family members.

+1

#2 More illegal immigrants come from visa over stays than from crossing the border illegally. The wall has very low ROI. Even some Rs realize this. For a "smart" business man, Trump doesn't seem to understand the basic business concept of an ROI. As an Independent, if he can *really* make MX pay for the wall, then fine. But I DO NOT want my tax dollars going for this useless thing.

#3 I really have a problem with this one. I work in IT. Many of the H1B workers I've worked with usually apply for a greencard on day one. Also, Trump and his followers want to get rid of H1B. If you make immigration merit based, and we let in all the high tech workers who want to come here, there's not that much difference than what we have today. Trumpsters keep saying we don't need H1B high tech workers. So, does this mean that Trump's merit based immigration plan won't include high tech workers?

#4 - why was it OK that Melania brought her sisters and elderly parents into this country, but someone from MX can't do the same?

#2; Have you heard how many illegal immigrants (many of whom are children) have crossed the border in the past few years alone? Tens of thousands if not more, a year....I'm okay with having a wall to prevent this from happening.
#4: Why can't those people fall in line like the rest of the people in line? Why should extended family members have a special privilege? I don't get it and I'm an immigrant.
I think the proposal is great and the Dems would be foolish not to take it.

#2 I have "heard" how many children cross the border, but it's nowhere near the amount of illegal immigrants from visa overstays. The Wall is not going to stop desperate people. If you think it's a good idea to spend billions of dollars to stop even half of those crossing the border illegally, why is it not a good idea to put in stricter gun control if it will stop at least half of the 13K deaths per year of children by guns? I know, I'm inserting gun control in this debate, but the argument that the Wall will help is the same argument that can be applied to stricter gun control, but gun lovers don't want to apply the same argument across the board. That bugs the sh1t out of me.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/visa-overstays-outnumber-illegal-border-crossings-trend-expected-continue-n730216

#4 I ask again, why was it ok for Melania to bring in her sister and elderly parents but someone from MX shouldn't be able to? Oh let me guess, we need to change the laws now because the situation is sooo much more different than a few years ago when her parents/sister were allowed in?

[Anonymous]

Instead of a wall, maybe make a way for these illegal to not work, or get any govemenment benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Instead of a wall, maybe make a way for these illegal to not work, or get any govemenment benefits.

There you go -- why doesn't one of Trump's pillars include crackdown of employers who utilize these workers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1st pillar: This has been a non-starter with Republicans in the past. Is it really a starter this time?

2nd pillar: Can we just stop it with the wall thing? Increase funding of measures that actually work and use the rest to benefit Americans.

3rd pillar: Currently the vast majority of immigration is "merit based". This is the H1B visas that Republicans rail against.

4th pillar: The problem is the disconnect between what some Americans think of as immediate family members and what the majority of cultures around the world think of as immediate family members.

+1

#2 More illegal immigrants come from visa over stays than from crossing the border illegally. The wall has very low ROI. Even some Rs realize this. For a "smart" business man, Trump doesn't seem to understand the basic business concept of an ROI. As an Independent, if he can *really* make MX pay for the wall, then fine. But I DO NOT want my tax dollars going for this useless thing.

#3 I really have a problem with this one. I work in IT. Many of the H1B workers I've worked with usually apply for a greencard on day one. Also, Trump and his followers want to get rid of H1B. If you make immigration merit based, and we let in all the high tech workers who want to come here, there's not that much difference than what we have today. Trumpsters keep saying we don't need H1B high tech workers. So, does this mean that Trump's merit based immigration plan won't include high tech workers?

#4 - why was it OK that Melania brought her sisters and elderly parents into this country, but someone from MX can't do the same?

#2; Have you heard how many illegal immigrants (many of whom are children) have crossed the border in the past few years alone? Tens of thousands if not more, a year....I'm okay with having a wall to prevent this from happening.
#4: Why can't those people fall in line like the rest of the people in line? Why should extended family members have a special privilege? I don't get it and I'm an immigrant.
I think the proposal is great and the Dems would be foolish not to take it.

In 2016 there were less than 25,000 minors who were caught crossing the border, and per border control, that number has been declining. You want to spend BILLIONS to stop about 13,000 of them. Wow, you have a terrible understanding of ROI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead of a wall, maybe make a way for these illegal to not work, or get any govemenment benefits.

There you go -- why doesn't one of Trump's pillars include crackdown of employers who utilize these workers?

+10000

Stop the demand, you will kill the supply. Seriously, what is so hard about that. The easiest place to find a bunch of illegal immigrants are on the farms owned by Rs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1st pillar: This has been a non-starter with Republicans in the past. Is it really a starter this time?

2nd pillar: Can we just stop it with the wall thing? Increase funding of measures that actually work and use the rest to benefit Americans.

3rd pillar: Currently the vast majority of immigration is "merit based". This is the H1B visas that Republicans rail against.

4th pillar: The problem is the disconnect between what some Americans think of as immediate family members and what the majority of cultures around the world think of as immediate family members.

+1

#2 More illegal immigrants come from visa over stays than from crossing the border illegally. The wall has very low ROI. Even some Rs realize this. For a "smart" business man, Trump doesn't seem to understand the basic business concept of an ROI. As an Independent, if he can *really* make MX pay for the wall, then fine. But I DO NOT want my tax dollars going for this useless thing.

#3 I really have a problem with this one. I work in IT. Many of the H1B workers I've worked with usually apply for a greencard on day one. Also, Trump and his followers want to get rid of H1B. If you make immigration merit based, and we let in all the high tech workers who want to come here, there's not that much difference than what we have today. Trumpsters keep saying we don't need H1B high tech workers. So, does this mean that Trump's merit based immigration plan won't include high tech workers?

#4 - why was it OK that Melania brought her sisters and elderly parents into this country, but someone from MX can't do the same?

#2; Have you heard how many illegal immigrants (many of whom are children) have crossed the border in the past few years alone? Tens of thousands if not more, a year....I'm okay with having a wall to prevent this from happening.
#4: Why can't those people fall in line like the rest of the people in line? Why should extended family members have a special privilege? I don't get it and I'm an immigrant.
I think the proposal is great and the Dems would be foolish not to take it.

Most of those kids were brought over on tourist visas. A wall won't stop them. Duh.

Let's use our brains for a few seconds, OK?

If you don't think that the 59,757 unaccompanied children and 77,857 family units that were caught at the border just in 2016 is significant, then maybe you need to use your brains for a few seconds. Duh