Do charters really differ that much from regular public schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Charters can essentially pick their students through barriers to entry and subtle (and not-so-subtle) signals to parents who (consciously or not) choose to self-segregate.

Just the fact that they get more engaged families (who exercise choice) makes them stronger than your typical neighborhood DCPS.

As opposed to economic segregation that comes with a neighborhood school system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters can essentially pick their students through barriers to entry and subtle (and not-so-subtle) signals to parents who (consciously or not) choose to self-segregate.

Just the fact that they get more engaged families (who exercise choice) makes them stronger than your typical neighborhood DCPS.

As opposed to economic segregation that comes with a neighborhood school system.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

I think that there may be differences in how charters approach special needs kids based upon how the funding works.

My understanding is that our charter school receives extra funding for each child that has an IEP. So, they receive a per pupil allocation for all kids. And, then for special needs kids, the per pupil allocation is higher because those kids require more resources. We have seen that our charter is very open to SN kids and works hard to serve their needs. (FWIW this school is not Bridges or Creative Minds which have a specific mandate in that area).

I am not familiar with the funding at DCPS. But in the special needs world, there is a lot of discussion of 'unfunded mandates' for public schools and fighting to get services for your child's legitimate special needs. My sister, who works in this area, says it is usually MUCH harder to get an IEP than it was for us to get one for our dyslexic kid at a charter school. It seems that the DCPS schools receive an overall budget that they then allocate for different programs(?). So, if they have more SN kids, they don't necessarily get a bigger SpEd budget?

The reason that this makes a difference is that I see higher % SpEd in a lot of the charters that I have looked at compared to highly regarded DCPS schools. I think that it might be that the DCPS schools are less likely to 'see' legitimate special needs because they don't necessarily get more funding to meet those needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Charters can essentially pick their students through barriers to entry and subtle (and not-so-subtle) signals to parents who (consciously or not) choose to self-segregate.

Just the fact that they get more engaged families (who exercise choice) makes them stronger than your typical neighborhood DCPS.

It's hard to know whether some of these are deliberate. The fact that getting to some charter campuses without a car is practically impossible may be a screening device, but It may also be that real estate near public transit is just too pricy for newer charters.

The decision to have aftercare prices of $350+ per month per child, howver, is definitely sending a message.

Certain buzzwords in the mission statement (immersion, Montessori, progressive, expeditionary learning) tend to attract middle class parents. That may be moot though. Those schools are full, and most new charters coming online are just expansions of existing charters or national charter chains. There are no new LAMBs opening, because everyone has figured out that you can't meet the requirements (special ed, lcentral location) on the current budget. They can't compete with the economies of scale of the school district with just one campus.

[Anonymous]

You haven’t seen the programs for kids with SN at DCPS schools ( e.g., Murch, Hearst)?

I have seen kids with SN leave charters that were not able to handle accommodations and were apparently not required to do so. Charters vary very widely in the way they accommodate kids with SN. Some do it better than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters can essentially pick their students through barriers to entry and subtle (and not-so-subtle) signals to parents who (consciously or not) choose to self-segregate.

Just the fact that they get more engaged families (who exercise choice) makes them stronger than your typical neighborhood DCPS.

It's hard to know whether some of these are deliberate. The fact that getting to some charter campuses without a car is practically impossible may be a screening device, but It may also be that real estate near public transit is just too pricy for newer charters.

The decision to have aftercare prices of $350+ per month per child, howver, is definitely sending a message.

Certain buzzwords in the mission statement (immersion, Montessori, progressive, expeditionary learning) tend to attract middle class parents. That may be moot though. Those schools are full, and most new charters coming online are just expansions of existing charters or national charter chains. There are no new LAMBs opening, because everyone has figured out that you can't meet the requirements (special ed, lcentral location) on the current budget. They can't compete with the economies of scale of the school district with just one campus.

Non title 1 DCPS schools have aftercare around $350+ too. $350 is not bad. Now $450-$550 is steep. Charters don’t get free facilities so can’t afford to subsidize aftercare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You haven’t seen the programs for kids with SN at DCPS schools ( e.g., Murch, Hearst)?

I have seen kids with SN leave charters that were not able to handle accommodations and were apparently not required to do so. Charters vary very widely in the way they accommodate kids with SN. Some do it better than others.

Charters legally have to serve children with special needs - or secure a private placement for them. If the schools, parents can file complaints with OSSE, the US Dept of Ed or file a due process lawsuit. PCSB monitors these complaints too and takes note of special ed services provision in the QSR and charter review / extension processes.

In all schools, parents and schools often disagree on the need for - and adequacy of - special ed services. Parents choose to leave sometimes rather than fight. Just come over to the special needs board for a few days you will find satisfied DC charter parents and also dissatisfied ones. And plenty of people who think DCPS / FCPS / MCPS is not serving their kid well, and others who are pleased.

[Anonymous]

I have worked in what is considered a good charter school in DC and a low performing Title I school in DC. The biggest difference are the parents and students that attend the schools. The parents at the charter I worked at and the one's I have supported through PD are very involved with the school. They know what is going on, and they provide a different level of support at home for their students. In the low performing school that I currently work at, teachers are required to do so much more to educate the students.
I will say that the charter I worked at counseled out multiple children who had behavior problems or were special education students. They told them that they didn't think the student was a good fit for the building or that our staff wasn't equipped to support the student adequately. At the time it made sense to me, however now that I am at a DCPS school I see how this hurts the culture of these schools and creates more of the DCPS vs DC Charter thing.

Each school is different, so we can't compare DCPS as a whole to charters. Their are good DCPS schools and good charters. You just have to go out and find what best suits your students.

[Anonymous]

Don't forget too that there are quite a few charters which are low performing and serve the same populations as the lower performing DCPS. We hear very little detail about those on this site.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't forget too that there are quite a few charters which are low performing and serve the same populations as the lower performing DCPS. We hear very little detail about those on this site.

Except when they are closed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:charter schools can innovate at the building level; DCPS is following curricular and programmatic mandates from downtown

So then what makes one DCPS different from another? Other than demographics, of course, and how good the principal is at hiring and managing the staff?

There are a lot of little differences, such as how the day is structured, whether classes rotate to teachers or have one teacher per class, whether they partner with student teachers or have extra aids, special programming, additional resources for focus schools (math , reading, science focus -- a temporary thing usually, but it stays with the school culture), whether they have things like contests, science fairs, school traditions and celebrations, etc. How they approach classroom management and discipline on the day to day stuff, uniforms, what the teachers focus on for PD and internal development, whether the teachers teach outside of and beyond the standard curriculum and how they approach and supplement that curriculum. A thousand little difference that can create a different culture at each school.

This. Our experience at Inspired Teaching has been different than DCPS. While they cover common core at Inspired, the breadth of how they do it and what they do on top of it is not what we experienced at a DCPS. There were weeks at a time where the majority of my kid’s day was spent working on their Shakespeare production close to PARCC timing.

Just to clarify, the PP response was about differences among DCPS schools; I have no knowledge of charters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that there may be differences in how charters approach special needs kids based upon how the funding works.

My understanding is that our charter school receives extra funding for each child that has an IEP. So, they receive a per pupil allocation for all kids. And, then for special needs kids, the per pupil allocation is higher because those kids require more resources. We have seen that our charter is very open to SN kids and works hard to serve their needs. (FWIW this school is not Bridges or Creative Minds which have a specific mandate in that area).

I am not familiar with the funding at DCPS. But in the special needs world, there is a lot of discussion of 'unfunded mandates' for public schools and fighting to get services for your child's legitimate special needs. My sister, who works in this area, says it is usually MUCH harder to get an IEP than it was for us to get one for our dyslexic kid at a charter school. It seems that the DCPS schools receive an overall budget that they then allocate for different programs(?). So, if they have more SN kids, they don't necessarily get a bigger SpEd budget?

The reason that this makes a difference is that I see higher % SpEd in a lot of the charters that I have looked at compared to highly regarded DCPS schools. I think that it might be that the DCPS schools are less likely to 'see' legitimate special needs because they don't necessarily get more funding to meet those needs.

Your assumption about funding is somewhat incorrect. Each school gets additional funding based on the number and type of Sped students enrolled. The problem with the budget process, though is that the budget is done based on prior year's enrollment, so if there is a significant change in population or the needs of the existing population, the can cause a budget disconnect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:charter schools can innovate at the building level; DCPS is following curricular and programmatic mandates from downtown

So then what makes one DCPS different from another? Other than demographics, of course, and how good the principal is at hiring and managing the staff?

There are a lot of little differences, such as how the day is structured, whether classes rotate to teachers or have one teacher per class, whether they partner with student teachers or have extra aids, special programming, additional resources for focus schools (math , reading, science focus -- a temporary thing usually, but it stays with the school culture), whether they have things like contests, science fairs, school traditions and celebrations, etc. How they approach classroom management and discipline on the day to day stuff, uniforms, what the teachers focus on for PD and internal development, whether the teachers teach outside of and beyond the standard curriculum and how they approach and supplement that curriculum. A thousand little difference that can create a different culture at each school.

This. Our experience at Inspired Teaching has been different than DCPS. While they cover common core at Inspired, the breadth of how they do it and what they do on top of it is not what we experienced at a DCPS. There were weeks at a time where the majority of my kid’s day was spent working on their Shakespeare production close to PARCC timing.

Just to clarify, the PP response was about differences among DCPS schools; I have no knowledge of charters.

I think PP was chiming in about OP that mentioned IT was now a “normal” school.
Al”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters can essentially pick their students through barriers to entry and subtle (and not-so-subtle) signals to parents who (consciously or not) choose to self-segregate.

Just the fact that they get more engaged families (who exercise choice) makes them stronger than your typical neighborhood DCPS.

It's hard to know whether some of these are deliberate. The fact that getting to some charter campuses without a car is practically impossible may be a screening device, but It may also be that real estate near public transit is just too pricy for newer charters.

The decision to have aftercare prices of $350+ per month per child, howver, is definitely sending a message.

Certain buzzwords in the mission statement (immersion, Montessori, progressive, expeditionary learning) tend to attract middle class parents. That may be moot though. Those schools are full, and most new charters coming online are just expansions of existing charters or national charter chains. There are no new LAMBs opening, because everyone has figured out that you can't meet the requirements (special ed, lcentral location) on the current budget. They can't compete with the economies of scale of the school district with just one campus.

Non title 1 DCPS schools have aftercare around $350+ too. $350 is not bad. Now $450-$550 is steep. Charters don’t get free facilities so can’t afford to subsidize aftercare.

neither do DCPS aftercares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters can essentially pick their students through barriers to entry and subtle (and not-so-subtle) signals to parents who (consciously or not) choose to self-segregate.

Just the fact that they get more engaged families (who exercise choice) makes them stronger than your typical neighborhood DCPS.

It's hard to know whether some of these are deliberate. The fact that getting to some charter campuses without a car is practically impossible may be a screening device, but It may also be that real estate near public transit is just too pricy for newer charters.

The decision to have aftercare prices of $350+ per month per child, howver, is definitely sending a message.

Certain buzzwords in the mission statement (immersion, Montessori, progressive, expeditionary learning) tend to attract middle class parents. That may be moot though. Those schools are full, and most new charters coming online are just expansions of existing charters or national charter chains. There are no new LAMBs opening, because everyone has figured out that you can't meet the requirements (special ed, lcentral location) on the current budget. They can't compete with the economies of scale of the school district with just one campus.

Non title 1 DCPS schools have aftercare around $350+ too. $350 is not bad. Now $450-$550 is steep. Charters don’t get free facilities so can’t afford to subsidize aftercare.

neither do DCPS aftercares.

Charters have to pay for all day facilities. Stop being obtuse.