No Collusion, But an Attempt to Undermine the Legitimacy of Our Democracy

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:He could sign the sanctions bill, if he really isn't under Putin's thumb . . .



He is going to sign the bill.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Interesting piece by Daniel Hoffman in the NYT asserting that the Russians were not trying to collude with the Trumps to influence the outcome of the election but rather were deliberately trying to leave bread crumbs to undermine the legitimacy of the American President by arranging the meeting with Don Trump, Jr. Likewise, the Russians undermined Hillary's prospective presidential legitimacy by leaking emails apparently showing a rigged Democratic primary against Bernie.

It would be nice if Mr. Trump would unequivocally acknowledge the Russian meddling and also if fair minded Democrats and objective commentators in the mainstream media would promote unity by focusing on the Russian threat to future elections instead of chasing conspiracy theories that will not lead to impeachment or criminal convictions.

There is no way the Russians would have colluded with the people sitting today in the West Wing. Those folks do not even know how to collude with each to get any significant legislation passed through a Congress controlled by their own party.

We need health care reform in this country and it is not going to happen if we keep giving victories to the Russians in their influence campaign. Trump will be distracted and defensive and Democrats will continue to reflexively resist while the people get hurt. Sad!


The problem with the thesis are some facts:

-everyone involved seems to have lied about 1) russian money and 2) various and multiple meetings
-why was Kysliak brought into Trump Tower via a back door and service elevator rather than the front door in December?
-Why was everyone lying about the April Mayflower meeting?
-Why was everyone lying about the June Trump Tower meeting?
-Why has Trump repeatedly said "no Russia deals" when in fact there are hundreds of Russia deals?
-Why did Trump meet with Putin one on one without the other safties and protocols in place?
-Why did Trump share USIC secrets with the Russian in the Oval Office?

The list goes on and on...


A lot of innuendo there.

Sessions seems to have forgotten some inconsequential meetings. He is an older guy. That is plausible.
Donald Jr. provided accurate but incomplete information to the NY Times. That is not a crime.
A lot of people were brought in through the back door for Trump Tower. Nothing wrong with being discreet. Not everyone wants to be photographed by the media.
Trump apparently chatted with Putin at a large dinner event when he was going to get Melania. That is hardly a secret meeting.
Trump is the president. He can share information with foreign leaders if he deems it appropriate.

Mueller is reportedly looking at the financial issues. There is still zero evidence of collusion.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Interesting piece by Daniel Hoffman in the NYT asserting that the Russians were not trying to collude with the Trumps to influence the outcome of the election but rather were deliberately trying to leave bread crumbs to undermine the legitimacy of the American President by arranging the meeting with Don Trump, Jr. Likewise, the Russians undermined Hillary's prospective presidential legitimacy by leaking emails apparently showing a rigged Democratic primary against Bernie.

It would be nice if Mr. Trump would unequivocally acknowledge the Russian meddling and also if fair minded Democrats and objective commentators in the mainstream media would promote unity by focusing on the Russian threat to future elections instead of chasing conspiracy theories that will not lead to impeachment or criminal convictions.

There is no way the Russians would have colluded with the people sitting today in the West Wing. Those folks do not even know how to collude with each to get any significant legislation passed through a Congress controlled by their own party.

We need health care reform in this country and it is not going to happen if we keep giving victories to the Russians in their influence campaign. Trump will be distracted and defensive and Democrats will continue to reflexively resist while the people get hurt. Sad!


The problem with the thesis are some facts:

-everyone involved seems to have lied about 1) russian money and 2) various and multiple meetings
-why was Kysliak brought into Trump Tower via a back door and service elevator rather than the front door in December?
-Why was everyone lying about the April Mayflower meeting?
-Why was everyone lying about the June Trump Tower meeting?
-Why has Trump repeatedly said "no Russia deals" when in fact there are hundreds of Russia deals?
-Why did Trump meet with Putin one on one without the other safties and protocols in place?
-Why did Trump share USIC secrets with the Russian in the Oval Office?

The list goes on and on...


A lot of innuendo there.

Sessions seems to have forgotten some inconsequential meetings. He is an older guy. That is plausible.
Donald Jr. provided accurate but incomplete information to the NY Times. That is not a crime.
A lot of people were brought in through the back door for Trump Tower. Nothing wrong with being discreet. Not everyone wants to be photographed by the media.
Trump apparently chatted with Putin at a large dinner event when he was going to get Melania. That is hardly a secret meeting.
Trump is the president. He can share information with foreign leaders if he deems it appropriate.

Mueller is reportedly looking at the financial issues. There is still zero evidence of collusion.


No, they are "forgetting" consequential meetings as well. It's not plausible.
And no, they aren't just telling half truths or omitting things - they are LYING and COVERING UP with fake cover stories, i.e. "Russian adoptions" - also not plausible.
We are well beyond any possible realms of plausible deniability.

But that said, I suspect that based on who Mueller has been hiring, Trump's corrupt business dealings will soon dwarf the Russia issues.
Anonymous
If there's collusion ANYWHERE, it's with COMEY/LYNCH/HOLDER/OBAMA/CLINTON/JARRETT.
Anonymous
Donald Trump doesn't even believe that Russia made attempts to influence our elections and insert themselves nefariously. He has said or intimated repeatedly that he is not convinced. How, on earth, can we move onto our future liabilities if he can't even admit that?

As to whether they actively colluded, it is still tough to tell. Everything about the campaign, the candidate, and the administration is such a raging cluster that it's hard to tell what is due to sheer incompetence and willful negligence, and what is due to malicious intent.

As for his financial issues, those will end in multiple indictments but unless GOP wakes up and realizes these longstanding shady business dealings are a matter of national security with this man as president, it won't be enough to remove him. If that time DOES come, it will not matter if his base supports the idea or not.
Anonymous
^^ was just going to post that. Ha! Maybe out brave FFUers can tend to putting down this story in lieu of arguing that Stephen Miller is DC's hottest bachelor...
Anonymous
We have no idea what the Grand Jury is considering. Could it be an immunity plead for Awan on the Clinton Foundation that the FBI has been investigating since 2001 on the Pay for Play scheme?

As for undermining a democracy, can we revisit Obama sending US tax dollars to Israel to try to undermine Bibi's re-election in 2015?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:We have no idea what the Grand Jury is considering. Could it be an immunity plead for Awan on the Clinton Foundation that the FBI has been investigating since 2001 on the Pay for Play scheme?

As for undermining a democracy, can we revisit Obama sending US tax dollars to Israel to try to undermine Bibi's re-election in 2015?


Denial is a river in Egypt.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Nope, nothing to see here

https://www.wsj.com/articles/special-counsel-mueller-impanels-washington-grand-jury-in-russia-probe-1501788287


The Special Counsel needs a grand jury so he can issue subpoenas. Routine and expected. According to his lawyer, as far as he knows, President Trump is not a target of the investigation. There remains zero evidence of collusion.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Nope, nothing to see here

https://www.wsj.com/articles/special-counsel-mueller-impanels-washington-grand-jury-in-russia-probe-1501788287


The Special Counsel needs a grand jury so he can issue subpoenas. Routine and expected. According to his lawyer, as far as he knows, President Trump is not a target of the investigation. There remains zero evidence of collusion.


Anonymous
Here is how the Social Media platform impact our democracy.

https://twitter.com/conspirator0/status/900158823515770880

"No Collusion"
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Here is how the Social Media platform impact our democracy.

https://twitter.com/conspirator0/status/900158823515770880

"No Collusion"


What does it say? Not going to click on unknown links
Anonymous
It's a twitter linked set of posts that outline how the Russian BOT system was established, how it was directed towards Brexit, the 2016 election, the 2017 French Election and is now focused on Merkel in Germany. The timing of the posts are from 8a to 8p Moscow time and the intensity of the posts correspond to each of the elections.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:It's a twitter linked set of posts that outline how the Russian BOT system was established, how it was directed towards Brexit, the 2016 election, the 2017 French Election and is now focused on Merkel in Germany. The timing of the posts are from 8a to 8p Moscow time and the intensity of the posts correspond to each of the elections.



Seems like the Russians were up to no good. Do the posts show that Mr. Trump or his associates were colluding with the Russians to influence the 2016 election in America? That is what you asserted. It appears you are providing information to suggest that the Russians act on their own to meddle in elections and votes around the world.
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