1950 billable hours req - manageable with kids?

[Anonymous]

Necessity is the mother of invention OP. I have always worked due to financial need. If I had to work these hours, I would. Many women have done it with small children. Does the firm have childcare? Some firms do. Do you have a full-time nanny? If you have a spouse -- do they have more flexible hours? If you need the job then take it. Know that you will need help. Many men are not cut out to be equal players when it comes to taking care of kids. If yours is good, then you'll do fine. If he or she isn't then you're going to need some other type of help to take this job. You'll also need a weekend nanny because law firms work around the clock and there is no such thing as "weekends off" if there is work to be done.

[Anonymous]

OP 1950 is fairly typical. The minimums can range from 1800 to 2050. But I agree with PPs that the minimum is kind of irrelevant. The real question is what you'll actually be expected to work based on that firm's culture, the nature of your work, and your career aspirations.

You also need to determine what is reasonable for you. I bill in the mid-2000s and think I am doing alright both at my job and as a parent . . . but those are literally the only two things I do. I am not as social as I would like, and things like pleasure reasing or vegging in front of the T.V. just don't fit in my life. If cutting things like that out of your life are going to make you miserable, you should be wary of a firm.

[Anonymous]

What year would you be coming in as? If you're a mid-level to senior associate you may be able to work from home in the evenings but you may not have that flexibility as a junior associate. Also, consider how work is assigned and structured as to whether you work directly for the partner or on a team of associates. The more layers, the more less flexibility you'll probably have since you're waiting on others or others are waiting on you.

As another PP mentioned, practice area matters too. In my old firm litigation was busy but fairly steady whereas in corporate sometimes we were really slow but when there was a deal there were many times I'd work all night.

Finally, in addition to other posts about 1950 being a minimum, consider other non-billable requirements (preparing pitches, client alerts, etc.).

[Anonymous]

My boyfriend's big law firm has an 1800 minimum hours requirement. However, it is pretty much understood you need to bill over 2200. He tends to bill between 2500 and 3000 hours a year. His firm somehow winds up on family-friendly lists.

Since I do not want to be a de facto single mom, I do not think I would be willing to have kids with him. He barely has enough sleep and free time to keep himself alive, and I really don't see how kids would fit into the picture without feeling neglected by him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Is 1950 about average for billable requirements or is that on the low side?

About average.

At my firm, it is a real requirement, not a floor. You would be in good standing and able to progress if you hit that number. But we also didn't have a culture of padding bills which is very prevalent and how many people bill 2400+ hours/year.

To hit 1950 in my practice area required me to work a lot, including about 50% of weekends. Combined with the non-billable requirements, I am very suspect that anyone really bills very high hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My boyfriend's big law firm has an 1800 minimum hours requirement. However, it is pretty much understood you need to bill over 2200. He tends to bill between 2500 and 3000 hours a year. His firm somehow winds up on family-friendly lists.

Since I do not want to be a de facto single mom, I do not think I would be willing to have kids with him. He barely has enough sleep and free time to keep himself alive, and I really don't see how kids would fit into the picture without feeling neglected by him.

A&P?
Anyway, your post is forward-thinking. Good for you to figure this out before kids. Too bad about BF.

[Anonymous]

I was at a meeting at a client's with another partner from my firm (he worked in a different office location). We both traveled to a third different city for the meeting. Anyway, he mentioned in passing that his wife "just had #4". I was very congratulatory and said "oh when was the baby born?" His response: "Last night." I've have a handful more exchanges just like that with other lawyers.

[Anonymous]

He tends to bill between 2500 and 3000 hours a year.

That's suicidal and unsustainable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

He tends to bill between 2500 and 3000 hours a year.

That's suicidal and unsustainable.

My DH has been doing that for 20 years. Financial freedom is a really big deal to him (he's from emotionally abusive and poor beginnings).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was at a meeting at a client's with another partner from my firm (he worked in a different office location). We both traveled to a third different city for the meeting. Anyway, he mentioned in passing that his wife "just had #4". I was very congratulatory and said "oh when was the baby born?" His response: "Last night." I've have a handful more exchanges just like that with other lawyers.

And to think you only live once.....

[Anonymous]

I'm at a boutique. IMO, 1600/year, plus some "lite" networking and professional activities (done at lunch or 1 evening per month, occasionally 2) is the max for a balanced and family-friendly life. This allows me to do after school (5:45 pm) pickup, get to the gym some days, do some pleasure reading, see friends 1-2x/month, and get to some school events. 2000/year means most of this will have to be cut.

[Anonymous]

I'd expect you would find this stressful, particularly on top of day care and a long commute. I agree with PP that you need to a get sense for whether it is really 1950 (which is a heavy lift depending on the practice area) or even more. It will require you to be very efficient with your time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that that is the requirement, but it is a minimum - if there is more work, you're going to have to exceed it. Once you have the offer in hand, I would ask to speak to associates there and find out more about how much they actually bill/work.

THIS.

My firm's minimum is 1800, but if I billed less than 2100 - 2300 per year, they would fire me.

You know what, if you want me to wear 37 pieces of flair, like your pretty boy over there, why don't you just make the minimum 37 pieces of flair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do the math. Assuming 2 or 3 weeks vacation a year, that implies 40 hours of billable work per week. I'm not a lawyer but I would imagine there's at least 30% of your time that's not billable, so if I were you, I'd assume that implied 60 hours a week of work, or 12h a day. I'd also imagine it's spikey - I doubt it's a constant stream of 40 hours a week, so I could see the 4th quarter becoming a mad scramble to get more time in.

My 2 cents, which is worth very little as I'm not a lawyer, is that it's probably not going to be remotely kid friendly.

I am also a non lawyer but my spouse used to work at a large firm and this does indeed hit the nail on the head. The only thing I have to add is that if you are at a firm or in a practice group where the culture is to bill 2100, or compete with the highest billing attorneys, you're not going to feel as if you can even stop at 1950.

Personally, it was not manageable for our family to have even the second-in-command parent work like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was at a meeting at a client's with another partner from my firm (he worked in a different office location). We both traveled to a third different city for the meeting. Anyway, he mentioned in passing that his wife "just had #4". I was very congratulatory and said "oh when was the baby born?" His response: "Last night." I've have a handful more exchanges just like that with other lawyers.

A girl that I graduated with had a baby in her first year. She worked until midnight on a Thursday night, had a schedule c-section on Friday morning, handed the baby to her mother on Monday morning and was back in the office.