Accidental child death, prosecute the parents?

[Anonymous]

Not about leaving kids in cars, but invetigative journalism on parents wrongly blamed for their children's deaths.

http://www.propublica.org/article/the-hardest-cases-when-children-die-justice-can-be-elusive

[Anonymous]

My mom was and still is an emergency room nurse. Her excuse for not letting me do alot of the things that I wanted to do growing up was " I know someone that got hurt/killed doing that" Consequently, I didn't have much of a childhood. Bikes were forbidden until I was 15 because I could get hit, never allowed to climb trees, most sports were out.

My point is if you protect them from everything, you end up hurting them because they don't get the chance to be kids.

[Anonymous]

In some way, I can see how someone could forget a baby in the car - it is horrible, but I can see how someone's mind would get really distracted and just mess up if the baby was asleep or quiet. It is kind of hard for me to see how it could happen with a toddler or a three year old, though. Absent a special needs situation, by that age, aren't you talking to the kid a bit as you drive, and aren't they talking back to you?

[Anonymous]

Like other posters, the thing that gets me is that this was the second time she'd done it. That, to me, crosses a line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the "accident" is 1000% avoidable, it's not an accident, it's negligence. And that's what this was. There are so many ways to avoid this that I can't even believe this still happens. The mom a few years ago who did this has made it her life's mission to ensure that it not happen to anyone else. Her simple solution? Never put your own things in the front - put them in the back with your kid, so that you always have to go into the back seat to get your bag or purse. Simple. Yes, this is horribly sad for everyone, but it was 1000% avoidable.

OP, nice post. Yes, each accidental child death is a tragedy, and I am sure that parents go back to that moment that changed their lives forever and find 1000 things that they could have done differently.

PP quoted above, can you think of a single accident that is not[u] 1000% avoidable?

Some accidents are truly accidents. Yes, I can think of accidents are that not avoidable. This wasn't that. As people are pointing, she did this before. She should have been hyper alert to it. This wasn't an accident. This was negligence. Negligence = texting while driving, losing control of the car. Accident = hitting a bump or something in the road that causes you to lose control of the car. Neither was intentional, one was avoidable.

[Anonymous]

Whether the Murphy case was negligence or not, this is why I think there should be no prosecution: it will only cause more suffering for more innocent children. The sweet baby boy's big sisters are absolutely innocent, grieving unspeakably, scarred for life, and now their mother might be taken from them, too? Their family finances destroyed? Their parents' marriage ruined? How does that serve justice?

Ryan loved his family. They loved him. Does it really honor his death to destroy them even more than they have already been destroyed?

The legal system is not surgical justice. Each time a prosecutor makes a decision, s/he should consider whether justice would be served by a trial and possible incarceration. I can't imagine a single reason why a prosecution would be necessary in this case.

That poor family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In some way, I can see how someone could forget a baby in the car - it is horrible, but I can see how someone's mind would get really distracted and just mess up if the baby was asleep or quiet. It is kind of hard for me to see how it could happen with a toddler or a three year old, though. Absent a special needs situation, by that age, aren't you talking to the kid a bit as you drive, and aren't they talking back to you?

I think in many cases, the child has fallen asleep.

[Anonymous]

Whether the Murphy case was negligence or not, this is why I think there should be no prosecution: it will only cause more suffering for more innocent children. The sweet baby boy's big sisters are absolutely innocent, grieving unspeakably, scarred for life, and now their mother might be taken from them, too? Their family finances destroyed? Their parents' marriage ruined? How does that serve justice?

Ryan loved his family. They loved him. Does it really honor his death to destroy them even more than they have already been destroyed?

The legal system is not surgical justice. Each time a prosecutor makes a decision, s/he should consider whether justice would be served by a trial and possible incarceration. I can't imagine a single reason why a prosecution would be necessary in this case.

That poor family.

This doesn't make sense to me. Prosecuting a parent for a crime always causes suffering to the parent's innocent children, but it's not a reason not to prosecute parents who commit crimes, just because they are parents. The fact that it wasn't intentional does not mean it wasn't negligent. The fact that the family is suffering doesn't mean that no crime was committed.

Yes, there will always be prosecutorial discretion, and if you read the Weingarten article, the reason some of these cases are prosecuted and others are not seems to turn on nothing more than whether the particular prosecutor decides to go forward. In many (hopefully almost all) cases, these are true accidents, but as others have said, there is certainly evidence here that Ryan's death could have been prevented.

Think about it for a minute and ask if you think she behaved as a reasonable person would have. How would you feel if you accidently left your baby in the car and went to work? What if the phone rang a few minutes later and the daycare reminded you that you never dropped your child off, and you ran back to the car and rescued your poor child. Wouldn't you be absolutely horrified that you FORGOT your precious child and started to go about your day at work?! Might you even be tormented by thoughts of "what could have happened?" And would you feel incredibly lucky that this happened on a day that was not hot and that your mistake was discovered immediately and your child was ok? Would you not then do EVERYTHING in your power and institute EVERY possible safeguard to make sure you could NEVER make such a potentially deadly mistake again? I'm sure all the other parents who have suffered this kind of tragic accident would give anything for their "mistake" to have been discovered quickly the first time - and they would never have allowed it to happen for a second time. For this mother to have done anything less is negligent if not worse.

My heart goes out to this family, and yes, especially to the mother who has to live with this. I've prayed for them. But our sympathy doesn't absolve her under the law. I don't "want" her to suffer more by being prosecuted, but the state has an interest here too. I honestly don't think a judge will incarcerate her, but I hope this case will raise awareness of this issue because if one more baby dies in a hot car, that is one too many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This recent case in Virginia with the woman who left her toddler in the car is so very sad. I wish the prosecution would just stop. Let the mother grieve at home. It hurts enough already.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/prince-william...11/07/05/gHQA7A5pzH_story.html

Read the article. That mother left her child in the car not once, but TWICE. Therefore, she knew for a fact that she was capable of forgetting that little boy in the car -- she already did it once. She was fortunate that her child didn't die the first time. Instead of learning from the experience, she did nothing to ensure she would never forget him again. It was her responsibility to make sure she didn't do it AGAIN.
I agree these are usually accidents, but in this case it is reprehensible.

Btw, this is a tragedy, but the remorse of the accused does not go to the question of guilt or innocence.

Unfortunate as this is....I agree with the above.

Same here. I don't know all the details or the mother's personal story, but I cannot help but question how she let this happen a second time, costing the life of her child.

[Anonymous]

Some serial killers have kids, and that doesn't stop the authorities from prosecuting them for their crimes. You don't hear anyone saying, "Oh, the BTK killer shouldn't go to prison because his daughters need their dad around."

Yes, there's a difference. But the mom who's being prosecuted SHOULD be sentenced. She did it twice. She clearly didn't learn from the first time. There's a difference between a kid choking on a button of his clothing - purely a tragic accident - and a kid dying because his mother clearly has too many things going on and can't manage them. TWICE. For those of you who've read Gene Weingarten's excellent article on the subject, if I remember correctly, the main woman that he profiled was pregnant again, after leaving another child in a hot car to die. I was horrified. Frankly, I didn't think she should have been allowed to reproduce again after killing one kid, "accident" or not.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if the mom had undiagnosed/untreated ADHD. Seriously.....I have it and I'm treated for it but things like this scare the crap out of me because I'm SO MUCH more vulnerable to distraction.

[Anonymous]

The state (i.e. society) has a right to look after the well-being of the child even if the parents are going to suffer the loss of the child. That child had a right to cared for.

I'm wondering how those who say "don't prosecute" would feel if it was the nanny who left the child in the car. Somehow, I think they would want the nanny prosecuted for child neglect under the theory that the nanny isn't suffering the loss of the child.

I believe the parents ARE suffering the loss and I'm sure the mother is devastated that she killed her child.... that's not sufficient for me. I'm not out to put her in jail for the rest of her life... but I believe the state must do something to speak up for the child whose life was snuffed out. If she is given community service and a day in jail each year for 10 years, that would be fine with me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: For those of you who've read Gene Weingarten's excellent article on the subject, if I remember correctly, the main woman that he profiled was pregnant again, after leaving another child in a hot car to die. I was horrified. Frankly, I didn't think she should have been allowed to reproduce again after killing one kid, "accident" or not.

That woman's story really disturbed me too. Especially because it wasn't even just an "oops" pregnancy--her husband was working as a civilian contractor in the middle east...they saved some of his sperm and used it so that she could get pregnant via IVF while he was gone!

I feel so torn about Dr. Murphy. I live in Bristow...I don't know her personally, but I met her several months ago when my son's cubscout troop took a tour of the vet clinic. Some of my friends are friends with her. Her house is actually at the end of a running trail that I go down at least a couple times a week, etc. On one hand it breaks my heart that a greiving parent is being prosecuted, but the fact that it was the second time does give me pause.

BTW, about 9 years ago, right down the road in Manassas, a father (Kevin Kelly) left his toddler daughter in the minivan and she died. This father had several previous incidents with his children (forgot a preschool age boy at a video store for several hours, toddler daughter was found wandering street by herself). He was also prosecuted (same prosecuter, Ebert). His sentence was to organize a blood drive in his daughter's name each year and also to serve one day in jail each year. I wonder if Dr. Murphy will receive a similar sentence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The state (i.e. society) has a right to look after the well-being of the child even if the parents are going to suffer the loss of the child. That child had a right to cared for.

I'm wondering how those who say "don't prosecute" would feel if it was the nanny who left the child in the car. Somehow, I think they would want the nanny prosecuted for child neglect under the theory that the nanny isn't suffering the loss of the child.

I believe the parents ARE suffering the loss and I'm sure the mother is devastated that she killed her child.... that's not sufficient for me. I'm not out to put her in jail for the rest of her life... but I believe the state must do something to speak up for the child whose life was snuffed out. If she is given community service and a day in jail each year for 10 years, that would be fine with me.

Exactly! You'd all be out for blood if it was anyone other than a mom or dad. Give me a break. This was no accident, it was negligence pure and simple. She did this one other time and had the unbelievable good fortune and luck that it all turned out OK. WHO DOES THIS TWICE? I'm just sorry that it's her son who paid the price for her stupidity and utter disregard. I feel really bad for the rest of the family who is now suffering for her acts; I don't feel bad for her. The first time was an accident. The second - go to jail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The state (i.e. society) has a right to look after the well-being of the child even if the parents are going to suffer the loss of the child. That child had a right to cared for.

I'm wondering how those who say "don't prosecute" would feel if it was the nanny who left the child in the car. Somehow, I think they would want the nanny prosecuted for child neglect under the theory that the nanny isn't suffering the loss of the child.

I believe the parents ARE suffering the loss and I'm sure the mother is devastated that she killed her child.... that's not sufficient for me. I'm not out to put her in jail for the rest of her life... but I believe the state must do something to speak up for the child whose life was snuffed out. If she is given community service and a day in jail each year for 10 years, that would be fine with me.

Exactly! You'd all be out for blood if it was anyone other than a mom or dad. Give me a break. This was no accident, it was negligence pure and simple. She did this one other time and had the unbelievable good fortune and luck that it all turned out OK. WHO DOES THIS TWICE? I'm just sorry that it's her son who paid the price for her stupidity and utter disregard. I feel really bad for the rest of the family who is now suffering for her acts; I don't feel bad for her. The first time was an accident. The second - go to jail.

I would have a harder time if it happened to the nanny because caring for the child is your ONLY job. Not dropping the child off at daycare then running to work.

Take a look at the following and PLEASE try to ignore the reference to C. Anthony.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/casey-anthony-and-karen-murphy-two-kids-dead-two-moms-charged-with-murder/2011/07/07/gIQAPLa81H_story.html