The Changing Face of Catholicism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

How old are you now? Why have you decided religion is a crock but still hang out in a religious forum?

I don't "hang out" here, and what's it to you if I did? I saw it in Recent Posts and decided to take a look. Who are you, the religious forum monitor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is OP 80? I don’t know any Catholic priest in America that was saying non Catholics go to hell in a post Vatican 2 world.

In my mind, the face of Catholicism is now getting MORE rigid and conservative in America with the SSPX folks and all the crazy Trump voters who have lost the thread and are willing to trade abortion bans for decency and Christian love for thy neighbor.

My parents grew up in pretty conservative pre-Vatican 2 years but were then active in the post Vatican 2 reforms in their local church/diocese. My dad was a republican for almost his entire life but no longer recognizes the Republican Party of hateful science deniers. But majority of American Catholics are currently voting that way. This, to me, is the most striking evidence that the Church in America is not doing a good job of preaching to Good News to its flock. It’s pretty depressing.

Thank you for this post.

My home town is basically 98% Catholic always has been. The church runs the town and towns around it.

MAGA within the Catholic Church is huge. It saddens me so that the science-denying is overwhelming. And they won't read Project 2025 or even if they do they are good with it. UGH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

Pope Benedict XVI did, and so did Pope John Paul II. One should also try to judge a religion, at least in part, by what it has bothered to write down: its catechisms, creeds, and confessions.
Catechism 847:
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

I'm not Roman Catholic, but I try not to judge religions by their most ignorant and backward priests and adherents.

See: that was limited to people who don't know Christ. Like tribes in the Amazon and such. AFIK none of the Popes have come out and said anyone of a different religion can get into heaven. Very very discriminatory

An example to the contrary:
Catechism 841
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is OP 80? I don’t know any Catholic priest in America that was saying non Catholics go to hell in a post Vatican 2 world.

In my mind, the face of Catholicism is now getting MORE rigid and conservative in America with the SSPX folks and all the crazy Trump voters who have lost the thread and are willing to trade abortion bans for decency and Christian love for thy neighbor.

My parents grew up in pretty conservative pre-Vatican 2 years but were then active in the post Vatican 2 reforms in their local church/diocese. My dad was a republican for almost his entire life but no longer recognizes the Republican Party of hateful science deniers. But majority of American Catholics are currently voting that way. This, to me, is the most striking evidence that the Church in America is not doing a good job of preaching to Good News to its flock. It’s pretty depressing.

Thank you for this post.

My home town is basically 98% Catholic always has been. The church runs the town and towns around it.

MAGA within the Catholic Church is huge. It saddens me so that the science-denying is overwhelming. And they won't read Project 2025 or even if they do they are good with it. UGH.

OP here.
I am not 80 and I grew up here in NoVa. It was much more rural then as I am in my 50s. That is exactly what happened in my Parrish. I just knew a good brainwashing when I heard one.

[Anonymous]

So many people left the church because of a priest or nun who did something like OP describes. So many stories like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

Pope Benedict XVI did, and so did Pope John Paul II. One should also try to judge a religion, at least in part, by what it has bothered to write down: its catechisms, creeds, and confessions.
Catechism 847:
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

I'm not Roman Catholic, but I try not to judge religions by their most ignorant and backward priests and adherents.

See: that was limited to people who don't know Christ. Like tribes in the Amazon and such. AFIK none of the Popes have come out and said anyone of a different religion can get into heaven. Very very discriminatory

An example to the contrary:
Catechism 841
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Really? So Muslims who believe Jesus was a prophet and not their savior can get into heaven? Is that true? I

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

Pope Benedict XVI did, and so did Pope John Paul II. One should also try to judge a religion, at least in part, by what it has bothered to write down: its catechisms, creeds, and confessions.
Catechism 847:
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

I'm not Roman Catholic, but I try not to judge religions by their most ignorant and backward priests and adherents.

See: that was limited to people who don't know Christ. Like tribes in the Amazon and such. AFIK none of the Popes have come out and said anyone of a different religion can get into heaven. Very very discriminatory

An example to the contrary:
Catechism 841
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Really? So Muslims who believe Jesus was a prophet and not their savior can get into heaven? Is that true? I

I'm not saying it's true. I'm saying that the Catholic Catechism seems to teach this.
https://www.vatican.va/content/catechism/en/part_one/section_two/chapter_three/article_9/paragraph_3_the_church_is_one,_holy,_catholic,_and_apostolic.html#:~:text=841%20The%20Church's%20relationship%20with,judge%20on%20the%20last%20day.%22

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

Pope Benedict XVI did, and so did Pope John Paul II. One should also try to judge a religion, at least in part, by what it has bothered to write down: its catechisms, creeds, and confessions.
Catechism 847:
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

I'm not Roman Catholic, but I try not to judge religions by their most ignorant and backward priests and adherents.

See: that was limited to people who don't know Christ. Like tribes in the Amazon and such. AFIK none of the Popes have come out and said anyone of a different religion can get into heaven. Very very discriminatory

An example to the contrary:
Catechism 841
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Really? So Muslims who believe Jesus was a prophet and not their savior can get into heaven? Is that true? I

I'm not saying it's true. I'm saying that the Catholic Catechism seems to teach this.
https://www.vatican.va/content/catechism/en/part_one/section_two/chapter_three/article_9/paragraph_3_the_church_is_one,_holy,_catholic,_and_apostolic.html#:~:text=841%20The%20Church's%20relationship%20with,judge%20on%20the%20last%20day.%22

I don't think it says what you think it does. I'd like to hear from the Catholic faithful here, can Muslims (who don't believe in Jesus) get into heaven - yes or no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

Pope Benedict XVI did, and so did Pope John Paul II. One should also try to judge a religion, at least in part, by what it has bothered to write down: its catechisms, creeds, and confessions.
Catechism 847:
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

I'm not Roman Catholic, but I try not to judge religions by their most ignorant and backward priests and adherents.

See: that was limited to people who don't know Christ. Like tribes in the Amazon and such. AFIK none of the Popes have come out and said anyone of a different religion can get into heaven. Very very discriminatory

An example to the contrary:
Catechism 841
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Really? So Muslims who believe Jesus was a prophet and not their savior can get into heaven? Is that true? I

I'm not saying it's true. I'm saying that the Catholic Catechism seems to teach this.
https://www.vatican.va/content/catechism/en/part_one/section_two/chapter_three/article_9/paragraph_3_the_church_is_one,_holy,_catholic,_and_apostolic.html#:~:text=841%20The%20Church's%20relationship%20with,judge%20on%20the%20last%20day.%22

I don't think it says what you think it does. I'd like to hear from the Catholic faithful here, can Muslims (who don't believe in Jesus) get into heaven - yes or no?

I think it does. The Catholic Catechism is of recent vintage, under JP II, 1992. It is an official document of the church's teaching. I don't know if you've talked to mainstream Catholics lately, but all the ones I talk to are more or less universalists (everyone is saved), even the pious ones. Dante would be bewildered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

Pope Benedict XVI did, and so did Pope John Paul II. One should also try to judge a religion, at least in part, by what it has bothered to write down: its catechisms, creeds, and confessions.
Catechism 847:
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

I'm not Roman Catholic, but I try not to judge religions by their most ignorant and backward priests and adherents.

See: that was limited to people who don't know Christ. Like tribes in the Amazon and such. AFIK none of the Popes have come out and said anyone of a different religion can get into heaven. Very very discriminatory

An example to the contrary:
Catechism 841
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Really? So Muslims who believe Jesus was a prophet and not their savior can get into heaven? Is that true? I

I'm not saying it's true. I'm saying that the Catholic Catechism seems to teach this.
https://www.vatican.va/content/catechism/en/part_one/section_two/chapter_three/article_9/paragraph_3_the_church_is_one,_holy,_catholic,_and_apostolic.html#:~:text=841%20The%20Church's%20relationship%20with,judge%20on%20the%20last%20day.%22

I don't think it says what you think it does. I'd like to hear from the Catholic faithful here, can Muslims (who don't believe in Jesus) get into heaven - yes or no?

I think it does. The Catholic Catechism is of recent vintage, under JP II, 1992. It is an official document of the church's teaching. I don't know if you've talked to mainstream Catholics lately, but all the ones I talk to are more or less universalists (everyone is saved), even the pious ones. Dante would be bewildered.

I thought you had to believe in Jesus to be saved. If not, well that's good news I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

How old are you now? Why have you decided religion is a crock but still hang out in a religious forum?

I don't "hang out" here, and what's it to you if I did? I saw it in Recent Posts and decided to take a look. Who are you, the religious forum monitor?

Ah, recent topic obsessed poster. Have you tried to unsuccessfully bully Jeff into removing religion from recent topics lately?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

How old are you now? Why have you decided religion is a crock but still hang out in a religious forum?

I don't "hang out" here, and what's it to you if I did? I saw it in Recent Posts and decided to take a look. Who are you, the religious forum monitor?

Ah, recent topic obsessed poster. Have you tried to unsuccessfully bully Jeff into removing religion from recent topics lately?

why would I do that? Who cares?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is OP 80? I don’t know any Catholic priest in America that was saying non Catholics go to hell in a post Vatican 2 world.

In my mind, the face of Catholicism is now getting MORE rigid and conservative in America with the SSPX folks and all the crazy Trump voters who have lost the thread and are willing to trade abortion bans for decency and Christian love for thy neighbor.

My parents grew up in pretty conservative pre-Vatican 2 years but were then active in the post Vatican 2 reforms in their local church/diocese. My dad was a republican for almost his entire life but no longer recognizes the Republican Party of hateful science deniers. But majority of American Catholics are currently voting that way. This, to me, is the most striking evidence that the Church in America is not doing a good job of preaching to Good News to its flock. It’s pretty depressing.

Thank you for this post.

My home town is basically 98% Catholic always has been. The church runs the town and towns around it.

MAGA within the Catholic Church is huge. It saddens me so that the science-denying is overwhelming. And they won't read Project 2025 or even if they do they are good with it. UGH.

OP here.
I am not 80 and I grew up here in NoVa. It was much more rural then as I am in my 50s. That is exactly what happened in my Parrish. I just knew a good brainwashing when I heard one.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:good for you. I didn't figure out what a crock it was until 13.
As far as I know, no Pope has still come out and said you can get into heaven without believing in Jesus. That just can't be correct.

How old are you now? Why have you decided religion is a crock but still hang out in a religious forum?

After all this time you still don’t know the difference between a religious forum and a religion forum.

Why is that?