AP courses a scam?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The A students work for the B students, the C students own the company, and the dropouts invented the product the company makes.

I've seen this elsewhere on DCUM but usually in a context where it makes a modicum of sense.

I've never seen it make sense. It isn't generally true and it completely ignores all the people who aren't "at the company" at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The two classes DS has struggled the most with as a freshman in college are both courses where he didn't have to take the pre-req due to receiving 5s on the AP tests.

Anyone else have kids who had similar issues?

DS took 5 total AP courses and received 4 or 5 on each exam. Only two were accepted by his college due to his chosen major.

The stars will have to align for him when he takes his final this week for him to manage to pull a B in one course. He is getting a C in the other course, which will be his first C ever as a final grade. If he doesn't get a B in the one course, he will have to retake it. His major doesn't allow for a C final grade in certain courses that are mandatory for the major.

What tier college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never assumed that the kids should use them to advance in level as freshman in college. Bad idea. Ok to use the APs as credit for gen education requirements so they can take more interesting electives, but they should be taking calc and physics and chem etc at college at the entry levels even if they took AP versions in high school.

Not always. My kid is at a T40 school, engineering major. Took Calc 3/4 freshman year and got A- in both. Got credit for AP Physics C Mech (got a 5), took 2nd semester of Physics (E&M) freshman year at college and got an easy A. By end of freshman year they had finished all but 3 courses for sophomore year (school has a strict schedule where engineering majors take each course, as they are often only offered 1 semester). That opens up the door for an easy minor as well as the opportunity to take a lighter load junior and senior year, if needed when the engineering curriculum is extremely intense (spring semester junior year is 13 credits of intense engineering and everyone says DO NOT take another course like suggested)

However, I would not recommend taking the AP credit for something in a major unless you got a 5 and feel you understood the material.

[Anonymous]

My kid skipped many intro level classes in college because of AP credit and had no issues. Maybe it depends on the kid. Kid took AP Physics C (Mechanics and E&M) in HS. Had to take a mandatory physics class for their engineering major. Skipped almost every lecture in college physics class. Just did exams and problem-sets and got an A. That seems a risky path but clearly the college class aligned with the AP class

[Anonymous]

some colleges are just easier or more difficult than others. its survival of the fittest for public schools ie UCLA/GaTech ... smaller private schools might be more lenient/easier. test optional as created an environment where kids not ready being accepted into STEM and their course grades being "fake". the whole college experience is nothing but exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never assumed that the kids should use them to advance in level as freshman in college. Bad idea. Ok to use the APs as credit for gen education requirements so they can take more interesting electives, but they should be taking calc and physics and chem etc at college at the entry levels even if they took AP versions in high school.

I highly advise against using any science or math APs to replace college intro-level courses. This is where I see disaster strike.

As others have stated, AP courses are taught to the test. Intro-level courses at a university are taught to make Calc II, III, Physics 201, etc. at the same university easier and more manageable.

For example, at my university, AP Calc can replace Math 150 & 151 Calc 1a & 1b so freshmen can jump right into Math 155 - Calc 2. Those who struggle the most typically fall into two groups: freshmen who received credit for 150 & 151 through the AP test or students who received a low C final grade in the 150/151 courses. Without those strong foundational courses, it's a struggle for any freshmen who want to go a mathematics or science route.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The A students work for the B students, the C students own the company, and the dropouts invented the product the company makes.

Or work as hair dressers and baristas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a college professor. The AP course in my field requires a lot of things that the equivalent college course does not, but those AP "extras" won't actually make you better at what the college course requires, and may in fact dilute the needed elements in favor of the unneeded ones. College courses tend to be much more specific, even compartmentalized, than high-school ones, even APs, are. And students who have done well in AP and feel like they know what to expect in college-level work also are going to sense a difference when college courses go twice as fast and meet almost half as often. There's a lot less time to discuss, digest, process, and practice in a college course than there is in its AP "equivalent."

So is AP a scam? No - it includes high-quality syllabi and strong expectations, and in the hands of great teachers it can produce really outstanding experiences. The actual rigor of an AP course may be higher than its college "equivalent" in certain situations, too. But remember that "equivalent" doesn't mean "identical" or even necessarily "interchangeable."

Short version: I'm not surprised when a former AP student is surprised at college. We should do a better job of preparing our HS upperclassmen, perhaps even just switching courses to college pace for a week to let them feel it out on the ground.

+1 - well explained!

I think the best strategy with AP courses is to accept the credit for classes not in your field (to satisfy gen eds), and to retake the last AP level class in your major to establish the foundation for the next courses in sequence at your particular university. While others around you may be struggling with new content at a college pace that first semester, the AP student will hopefully be familiar with most content and can fill in gaps while figuring out how to do “college”.

[Anonymous]

For most AP classes, I would still advise my kids to take the classes they passed out of if they were part of a sequence, such as mathematics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The A students work for the B students, the C students own the company, and the dropouts invented the product the company makes.

I've seen this elsewhere on DCUM but usually in a context where it makes a modicum of sense.

And also it's wrong, statistically speaking. People just like to comfort themselves with that when their kids are mediocre. Newsflash - most of them will continue being mediocre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a college professor. The AP course in my field requires a lot of things that the equivalent college course does not, but those AP "extras" won't actually make you better at what the college course requires, and may in fact dilute the needed elements in favor of the unneeded ones. College courses tend to be much more specific, even compartmentalized, than high-school ones, even APs, are. And students who have done well in AP and feel like they know what to expect in college-level work also are going to sense a difference when college courses go twice as fast and meet almost half as often. There's a lot less time to discuss, digest, process, and practice in a college course than there is in its AP "equivalent."

So is AP a scam? No - it includes high-quality syllabi and strong expectations, and in the hands of great teachers it can produce really outstanding experiences. The actual rigor of an AP course may be higher than its college "equivalent" in certain situations, too. But remember that "equivalent" doesn't mean "identical" or even necessarily "interchangeable."

Short version: I'm not surprised when a former AP student is surprised at college. We should do a better job of preparing our HS upperclassmen, perhaps even just switching courses to college pace for a week to let them feel it out on the ground.

Thank you for the insightful post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid skipped many intro level classes in college because of AP credit and had no issues. Maybe it depends on the kid. Kid took AP Physics C (Mechanics and E&M) in HS. Had to take a mandatory physics class for their engineering major. Skipped almost every lecture in college physics class. Just did exams and problem-sets and got an A. That seems a risky path but clearly the college class aligned with the AP class

+1

If you got a 5 on an AP STEM course (calc, Chem, Bio, Physics C), you will most likely be fine taking the credit and moving to next course. You earned a B or A in the college course.

[Anonymous]

Another college professor and I agree a lot with the other professor who posted. They’re not equivalent to college classes. They are what they are and I wouldn’t call them a scam necessarily, but they are geared towards passing a test and do not focus on learning the material to the extent that a college course does.

[Anonymous]

My DD seemed prepared for college with her APs. I agree with a PP — it probably depends on the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:some colleges are just easier or more difficult than others. its survival of the fittest for public schools ie UCLA/GaTech ... smaller private schools might be more lenient/easier. test optional as created an environment where kids not ready being accepted into STEM and their course grades being "fake". the whole college experience is nothing but exams.

Test optional? We are discussing AP TESTS.