“Middle class” incomes article

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the replies on this forum indicate upper middle class to rich. Too many posters on here live in a bubble and have no idea what true middle class is, especially middle class in most of the US.

If your HHI is 200k in DMV, you are doing just fine. Get a grip on a budget and relax.

Well you definitely need a budget on that income. Good luck.

I know a lot of people with $200-250K income in the DMV who are mid-30s and lifestyles are heavily subsidized by parents. They budget for vacations and Amazon and then mom and dad swoop in and take care of mortgage, childcare, and private school. With a giant generational wealth transfer occurring right now HHI is in some situations not an accurate indicator of lifestyle or social class.

Why would they still need parents to subsidize at that income? My HHI is $140k and I have no problem budgeting for my family without external help. I consider the fact that I have no debt to be my parents’ significant contribution to my adult finances.

They get to live a higher lifestyle with parental assistance. If my parents were able to pay for college and/or private school, I certainly wouldn't turn it down. It would allow us to live at the next level. Of course, I'd recognize the privilege of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Arlignton is a bad example. There are a lot of poor people who bring the average down. You won’t find too many families who are not recent immigrants who are “middle class”.

You understand how statistics like average and median work, right?

Arlington is full of apartments with subsidized rents, college grads bunking up on $70k salary paying half their income to the rent, and retirees living off savings (ie no income) in paid off houses bought for $200k. If you look at the “middle classes” income for families living in a SFH, it’s likely $400k.

So…if you take out the poor people the average goes up? Yes. But poor and middle class people exist. You can’t leave them out because they aren’t “people I benchmark myself against.” Your way of thinking is exactly why someone with a $400k HHI thinks they are middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the replies on this forum indicate upper middle class to rich. Too many posters on here live in a bubble and have no idea what true middle class is, especially middle class in most of the US.

If your HHI is 200k in DMV, you are doing just fine. Get a grip on a budget and relax.

Well you definitely need a budget on that income. Good luck.

I know a lot of people with $200-250K income in the DMV who are mid-30s and lifestyles are heavily subsidized by parents. They budget for vacations and Amazon and then mom and dad swoop in and take care of mortgage, childcare, and private school. With a giant generational wealth transfer occurring right now HHI is in some situations not an accurate indicator of lifestyle or social class.

Why would they still need parents to subsidize at that income? My HHI is $140k and I have no problem budgeting for my family without external help. I consider the fact that I have no debt to be my parents’ significant contribution to my adult finances.

Where do you live on $140k? Likely you didn’t buy recently in an UMC area around DC.

I live in DC. I rent. I mean I wouldn’t say no if my parents volunteered to buy me a house or contribute to my kids’ college funds so no shade to those families where that happens but it’s not like it’s necessary. One can live and save for retirement/college/down payment (for somewhere cheaper than downtown) with a family in DC on $200k or less without being miserable. I consider us middle class like this article suggests — we have to pay attention to money and choose what luxuries we want but nothing is dire and we’re never choosing between necessities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.livenowfox.com/news/middle-class-income-salary-2024

Says “middle class” income in Arlington is $88k-$264k. The highest city listed, Sunnyvale, CA, is $113k-$339k.

So according to this, all these DC Metro folks making $400k are definitely not “middle class” and at minimum UMC, even though they can’t “afford private school or trips to europe” or whatever else they think “middle class” means.

I know y’all will bash and flame and pick apart. I’ve been around here a long time.

Upper middle class is still part of the middle class. It has "middle class" in the phrase. What is your problem? That you refuse to accept upper middle class =/= rich?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[list]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the replies on this forum indicate upper middle class to rich. Too many posters on here live in a bubble and have no idea what true middle class is, especially middle class in most of the US.

If your HHI is 200k in DMV, you are doing just fine. Get a grip on a budget and relax.

Well you definitely need a budget on that income. Good luck.

I know a lot of people with $200-250K income in the DMV who are mid-30s and lifestyles are heavily subsidized by parents. They budget for vacations and Amazon and then mom and dad swoop in and take care of mortgage, childcare, and private school. With a giant generational wealth transfer occurring right now HHI is in some situations not an accurate indicator of lifestyle or social class.

Why would they still need parents to subsidize at that income? My HHI is $140k and I have no problem budgeting for my family without external help. I consider the fact that I have no debt to be my parents’ significant contribution to my adult finances.

Where do you live on $140k? Likely you didn’t buy recently in an UMC area around DC.

I live in DC. I rent. I mean I wouldn’t say no if my parents volunteered to buy me a house or contribute to my kids’ college funds so no shade to those families where that happens but it’s not like it’s necessary. One can live and save for retirement/college/down payment (for somewhere cheaper than downtown) with a family in DC on $200k or less without being miserable. I consider us middle class like this article suggests — we have to pay attention to money and choose what luxuries we want but nothing is dire and we’re never choosing between necessities.

We live on that and we are very comfortable. It’s all about choices. No family help, paid off house, college fund, lots of kid activities.

[Anonymous]

"Using Pew Research’s definition of middle income as two-thirds to double the median income in an area,"

That's it. Just an arbitrary numerical cutoff. Not a qualitative assessment of any kidn.

This whole thread is pointless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the replies on this forum indicate upper middle class to rich. Too many posters on here live in a bubble and have no idea what true middle class is, especially middle class in most of the US.

If your HHI is 200k in DMV, you are doing just fine. Get a grip on a budget and relax.

Well you definitely need a budget on that income. Good luck.

I know a lot of people with $200-250K income in the DMV who are mid-30s and lifestyles are heavily subsidized by parents. They budget for vacations and Amazon and then mom and dad swoop in and take care of mortgage, childcare, and private school. With a giant generational wealth transfer occurring right now HHI is in some situations not an accurate indicator of lifestyle or social class.

Income is money coming in. If mom and dad are giving $10k, $2k,50k, 500k that is part of the income that goes to their household. It’s just not job income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Arlignton is a bad example. There are a lot of poor people who bring the average down. You won’t find too many families who are not recent immigrants who are “middle class”.

You understand how statistics like average and median work, right?

Arlington is full of apartments with subsidized rents, college grads bunking up on $70k salary paying half their income to the rent, and retirees living off savings (ie no income) in paid off houses bought for $200k. If you look at the “middle classes” income for families living in a SFH, it’s likely $400k.

So…if you take out the poor people the average goes up? Yes. But poor and middle class people exist. You can’t leave them out because they aren’t “people I benchmark myself against.” Your way of thinking is exactly why someone with a $400k HHI thinks they are middle class.

Thank you, but the PP won't listen.

Guess what, I'm super wealthy if you don't include people who make over 200k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the replies on this forum indicate upper middle class to rich. Too many posters on here live in a bubble and have no idea what true middle class is, especially middle class in most of the US.

If your HHI is 200k in DMV, you are doing just fine. Get a grip on a budget and relax.

Well you definitely need a budget on that income. Good luck.

I know a lot of people with $200-250K income in the DMV who are mid-30s and lifestyles are heavily subsidized by parents. They budget for vacations and Amazon and then mom and dad swoop in and take care of mortgage, childcare, and private school. With a giant generational wealth transfer occurring right now HHI is in some situations not an accurate indicator of lifestyle or social class.

Income is money coming in. If mom and dad are giving $10k, $2k,50k, 500k that is part of the income that goes to their household. It’s just not job income.

if the parents/grandparents are paying for things directly, like cell service and tuition and laptops and business class seats to visit, it's not money that hits anyones bank account and therefore doesn't get flagged for gift tax or income. it's just a direct lifestyle upgrade, and no one counts it as income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the replies on this forum indicate upper middle class to rich. Too many posters on here live in a bubble and have no idea what true middle class is, especially middle class in most of the US.

If your HHI is 200k in DMV, you are doing just fine. Get a grip on a budget and relax.

Well you definitely need a budget on that income. Good luck.

I know a lot of people with $200-250K income in the DMV who are mid-30s and lifestyles are heavily subsidized by parents. They budget for vacations and Amazon and then mom and dad swoop in and take care of mortgage, childcare, and private school. With a giant generational wealth transfer occurring right now HHI is in some situations not an accurate indicator of lifestyle or social class.

Income is money coming in. If mom and dad are giving $10k, $2k,50k, 500k that is part of the income that goes to their household. It’s just not job income.

if the parents/grandparents are paying for things directly, like cell service and tuition and laptops and business class seats to visit, it's not money that hits anyones bank account and therefore doesn't get flagged for gift tax or income. it's just a direct lifestyle upgrade, and no one counts it as income.

That's true for direct tuition payments- there is a specific gift tax exclusion for tuition paid directly to a school/college. The other things would still, in theory, be subject to gift reporting if over the annual reporting exclusion limit, and the lifetime tax limit if over the annual exclusion limit. They are things of value which you are giving to another person without similar consideration/value in return. Now, in reality will anyone care if you buy $40k in business class tickets for your grandchild this year? Very unlikely. But legally you would have to report it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the replies on this forum indicate upper middle class to rich. Too many posters on here live in a bubble and have no idea what true middle class is, especially middle class in most of the US.

If your HHI is 200k in DMV, you are doing just fine. Get a grip on a budget and relax.

Well you definitely need a budget on that income. Good luck.

I know a lot of people with $200-250K income in the DMV who are mid-30s and lifestyles are heavily subsidized by parents. They budget for vacations and Amazon and then mom and dad swoop in and take care of mortgage, childcare, and private school. With a giant generational wealth transfer occurring right now HHI is in some situations not an accurate indicator of lifestyle or social class.

Income is money coming in. If mom and dad are giving $10k, $2k,50k, 500k that is part of the income that goes to their household. It’s just not job income.

if the parents/grandparents are paying for things directly, like cell service and tuition and laptops and business class seats to visit, it's not money that hits anyones bank account and therefore doesn't get flagged for gift tax or income. it's just a direct lifestyle upgrade, and no one counts it as income.

That's true for direct tuition payments- there is a specific gift tax exclusion for tuition paid directly to a school/college. The other things would still, in theory, be subject to gift reporting if over the annual reporting exclusion limit, and the lifetime tax limit if over the annual exclusion limit. They are things of value which you are giving to another person without similar consideration/value in return. Now, in reality will anyone care if you buy $40k in business class tickets for your grandchild this year? Very unlikely. But legally you would have to report it.

clarence thomas would like to disagree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the replies on this forum indicate upper middle class to rich. Too many posters on here live in a bubble and have no idea what true middle class is, especially middle class in most of the US.

If your HHI is 200k in DMV, you are doing just fine. Get a grip on a budget and relax.

Well you definitely need a budget on that income. Good luck.

I know a lot of people with $200-250K income in the DMV who are mid-30s and lifestyles are heavily subsidized by parents. They budget for vacations and Amazon and then mom and dad swoop in and take care of mortgage, childcare, and private school. With a giant generational wealth transfer occurring right now HHI is in some situations not an accurate indicator of lifestyle or social class.

Income is money coming in. If mom and dad are giving $10k, $2k,50k, 500k that is part of the income that goes to their household. It’s just not job income.

if the parents/grandparents are paying for things directly, like cell service and tuition and laptops and business class seats to visit, it's not money that hits anyones bank account and therefore doesn't get flagged for gift tax or income. it's just a direct lifestyle upgrade, and no one counts it as income.

That's true for direct tuition payments- there is a specific gift tax exclusion for tuition paid directly to a school/college. The other things would still, in theory, be subject to gift reporting if over the annual reporting exclusion limit, and the lifetime tax limit if over the annual exclusion limit. They are things of value which you are giving to another person without similar consideration/value in return. Now, in reality will anyone care if you buy $40k in business class tickets for your grandchild this year? Very unlikely. But legally you would have to report it.

clarence thomas would like to disagree

Well the lawyer-gods are above any petty IRS or federal judicial oversight, we all know that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The majority of the replies on this forum indicate upper middle class to rich. Too many posters on here live in a bubble and have no idea what true middle class is, especially middle class in most of the US.

If your HHI is 200k in DMV, you are doing just fine. Get a grip on a budget and relax.

Well you definitely need a budget on that income. Good luck.

I know a lot of people with $200-250K income in the DMV who are mid-30s and lifestyles are heavily subsidized by parents. They budget for vacations and Amazon and then mom and dad swoop in and take care of mortgage, childcare, and private school. With a giant generational wealth transfer occurring right now HHI is in some situations not an accurate indicator of lifestyle or social class.

Income is money coming in. If mom and dad are giving $10k, $2k,50k, 500k that is part of the income that goes to their household. It’s just not job income.

if the parents/grandparents are paying for things directly, like cell service and tuition and laptops and business class seats to visit, it's not money that hits anyones bank account and therefore doesn't get flagged for gift tax or income. it's just a direct lifestyle upgrade, and no one counts it as income.

Just because it doesn’t hit the bank account doesn’t mean it’s not money contributing to a family’s household. If my parents are paying for my mortgage or daycare bills it’s still a contribution. People in these situations that work in corporate America are not middle class. They would be upper middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Arlignton is a bad example. There are a lot of poor people who bring the average down. You won’t find too many families who are not recent immigrants who are “middle class”.

You understand how statistics like average and median work, right?

Arlington is full of apartments with subsidized rents, college grads bunking up on $70k salary paying half their income to the rent, and retirees living off savings (ie no income) in paid off houses bought for $200k. If you look at the “middle classes” income for families living in a SFH, it’s likely $400k.

So…if you take out the poor people the average goes up? Yes. But poor and middle class people exist. You can’t leave them out because they aren’t “people I benchmark myself against.” Your way of thinking is exactly why someone with a $400k HHI thinks they are middle class.

FFS, I’m not including people who have their expenses covered by the state. There is a huge donut it Arlington, it’s very Tale of Two Cities.