Advanced diploma-language requirement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD is really struggling with her language as well (9th grader, second year). We hired a tutor and the tutor was appalled--apparently our dd has no understanding whatsoever of English grammar (she was in AAP!). So of course, she is struggling with learning another language.

Learning a foreign language should be a good way to learn grammar explicitly which will help with English grammar. Is the problem that the foreign language instruction doesn't teach enough grammar?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD is really struggling with her language as well (9th grader, second year). We hired a tutor and the tutor was appalled--apparently our dd has no understanding whatsoever of English grammar (she was in AAP!). So of course, she is struggling with learning another language.

Learning a foreign language should be a good way to learn grammar explicitly which will help with English grammar. Is the problem that the foreign language instruction doesn't teach enough grammar?

Maybe the instruction assumes students already know English grammar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does his school have sign language?

ASL does not count as a “language”. Which is ridiculous. But that’s the way it is.

It absolutely counts and it is the only option for many children with dyslexia. It would be exceptionally difficult to learn a foreign language when your phonological awareness is compromised in your first language as it is with people who have dyslexia. Thus, they are allowed to learn a language without phonological components such as sign language.

It is unfortunate that it is not offered at every high school. My dyslexic daughter would probably do much better with ASL but her high school does not offer it. She is going to attempt a language and then may just forego it altogether if it becomes too much of a headache/stressor.

[Anonymous]

OP, focus first on the future step: college. Forget the "Advanced Diploma." For now. Do the research required. Look up The Common Data Set for colleges. Make a plan. Doors close. Your student will need to accept that. Don't make this about a sticker or an asterisk on the graduation program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here- we were planning on forcing the third year because we thought the advanced diploma was required (not required but you know 'required') for college admissions. The HS counselor hasn't really given me a good response when I have asked questions about how different choices will hurt college admissions.

For instance, his best subject is history but he didn't want to take AP World History next year. Should he be taking it? He is dropping out of honors for science and math.

I wish it wasn't so hard to get clear answers from the counselors on dos and don'ts.

The answer is nuanced, if your child is fine attending a not highly ranked college then he can do what he wants. If you child wants to attend UVA then your child needs to take the most rigorous options.

I would guess that a child taking regular science and math will be fine with Honors World History and not AP because that is not a kid targetting the top 100 schools. They will find a college that works for them but they are less likely to earn merit based scholarships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, focus first on the future step: college. Forget the "Advanced Diploma." For now. Do the research required. Look up The Common Data Set for colleges. Make a plan. Doors close. Your student will need to accept that. Don't make this about a sticker or an asterisk on the graduation program.

So are you saying that the "advanced diploma" is completely irrelevant?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, focus first on the future step: college. Forget the "Advanced Diploma." For now. Do the research required. Look up The Common Data Set for colleges. Make a plan. Doors close. Your student will need to accept that. Don't make this about a sticker or an asterisk on the graduation program.

So are you saying that the "advanced diploma" is completely irrelevant?

DP, it is nearly meaningless. My DC has profound dyslexia and as a result did not take any foreign language. They took 9 AP and post AP classes and got 5s in all of them, including BC Calc, Chemistry, Biology, and both Physics C tests. They had an unweighted 4.0 and made the all A honor roll every quarter. They were admitted to UMD-CP Honors, as an example. They also received the Standard diploma because they did not take a foreign language. None of the colleges and universities cared.

Colleges look at the student transcript and the grades and classes the student took. They don’t even know if a student gets the Standard or Advanced diploma. No employer I know cares either.

[Anonymous]

My kid doesn't duolingo and comes in knowing all the material before it's taught. It's fun too. Just a thought if he still wants the advanced diploma

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, focus first on the future step: college. Forget the "Advanced Diploma." For now. Do the research required. Look up The Common Data Set for colleges. Make a plan. Doors close. Your student will need to accept that. Don't make this about a sticker or an asterisk on the graduation program.

So are you saying that the "advanced diploma" is completely irrelevant?

Colleges (esp competitive State Universities) are going to look to see if your kid basically took the most challenging stuff available to them, and if they did well in them.

They will 100% know about the advanced diploma, and if your kid didn't get it that might raise questions, but as PP noted, if your kid took a bunch of other AP classes and did well, it may be a case of, well you did really well in other ways so it's ok.

I will note a lot of colleges have language requirements - I'd be worried most about, if your kid ends up somewhere with a language requirement anyways, might it not be better to get it knocked out in HS where it's a smaller/more supportive environment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does his school have sign language?

ASL does not count as a “language”. Which is ridiculous. But that’s the way it is.

uhhh... it definitely counts as a foreign language at our HS (woodson)

I think it maybe doesn't count as a foreign language for some colleges.

It's not a foreign language, it's as uniquely American as Navajo.

But many colleges will have a "World Language" or "Second Language" requirement, and then it counts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, focus first on the future step: college. Forget the "Advanced Diploma." For now. Do the research required. Look up The Common Data Set for colleges. Make a plan. Doors close. Your student will need to accept that. Don't make this about a sticker or an asterisk on the graduation program.

So are you saying that the "advanced diploma" is completely irrelevant?

Colleges (esp competitive State Universities) are going to look to see if your kid basically took the most challenging stuff available to them, and if they did well in them.

They will 100% know about the advanced diploma, and if your kid didn't get it that might raise questions, but as PP noted, if your kid took a bunch of other AP classes and did well, it may be a case of, well you did really well in other ways so it's ok.

I will note a lot of colleges have language requirements - I'd be worried most about, if your kid ends up somewhere with a language requirement anyways, might it not be better to get it knocked out in HS where it's a smaller/more supportive environment?

they will not. It is not even conferred until graduation and acceptances come well before graduation. They care about the classes on the transcript.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here- we were planning on forcing the third year because we thought the advanced diploma was required (not required but you know 'required') for college admissions. The HS counselor hasn't really given me a good response when I have asked questions about how different choices will hurt college admissions.

For instance, his best subject is history but he didn't want to take AP World History next year. Should he be taking it? He is dropping out of honors for science and math.

I wish it wasn't so hard to get clear answers from the counselors on dos and don'ts.

Real lifeexample. My kid is at WM this year without an advanced diploma. Very strong humanities kid. Meh in STEM. Stopped after HN Bio, Chem and Physics and didn’t take a science senior year. Guidance counselor signed off because an “equally rigorous course” was substituted (AP macro/micro vs something like APES or marine bio). No one noticed there wasn’t advanced diploma or cared, including her VA state college. So you can get flexible, if you keep the rigor up (and she literally took every humanities AP possible).


Now, I agree with PP that two years of foreign language might be an issue for some colleges. You’d need to look at “suggestions“ and “requirements” for those he’s interested in. 3 years would help a lot.

One idea— my other kid went to TJ where class slots were at a premium and it wasn’t unusual to stop after three years of foreign language to get in all the STEM extras— and took a somewhat popular path there at the time of FCPS online summer Spanish III. It’s a joke— because learning a foreign language online is very hard to do well. But, the point wasn’t to do well. It was to check a box. It was a ton of busy work and a miserable way to spend a summer. But if you did the busy work and attended the hour of online class each day, it made up most of the grade. Show up for a midterm and a final in person. If you actually attend and completed the worksheets, it would be hard mathematically not to get at least a B. And bingo, Spanish 3 on the transcript. Might be worth a shot. If it’s a disaster, there is a withdrawal without penalty period, so your kid could try for a couple weeks and see if it works.

I was pretty clearly into helping my kids make the standard curriculum work for them rather than mindlessly saying “you must take” just because it was what most kids did. And then helping them find colleges that were a good fit for them. It worked out well for my kids. I was actually surprised how well. Maybe because in NOVA every kids transcript was the same, and they stood out and it was clear their academic interests were genuine (and a good match for the colleges they applied to)? That said, try to find a way to get the third year. Summer is an academically easier path and concentrates the pain, so it doesn’t ruin a whole year. Then they can use the a lot for so,etching they really enjoy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does his school have sign language?

ASL does not count as a “language”. Which is ridiculous. But that’s the way it is.

uhhh... it definitely counts as a foreign language at our HS (woodson)

I am the OP who said it didn’t count.

Really? I was literally told last week in my son’s IEP meeting by the counselor that, sadly, ASL does not “count” as a foreign language. (West Po). She said it was recent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ I will add that we have no expectations of extremely selective colleges but would like him to have decent in state options. He is a B+ kind of student.

Middle child is graduating this year. His GPA at the end of junior year was around 3.3. He applied at George Mason, ODU, and Randolph Macon college. He was accepted into all three.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does his school have sign language?

ASL does not count as a “language”. Which is ridiculous. But that’s the way it is.

uhhh... it definitely counts as a foreign language at our HS (woodson)

I am the OP who said it didn’t count.

Really? I was literally told last week in my son’s IEP meeting by the counselor that, sadly, ASL does not “count” as a foreign language. (West Po). She said it was recent.

were you talking about a specific school? Otherwise, she is perpetuating a myth that has been around for years.