pre-algebra topics?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If you look on the Illustrative website there's an explanation of the condensed version so the content of grades 6-8 is done in two years. Faster pace but also less built-in review.

Can you link? All I see is accelerated 6-7. Is the idea that 7th is prealgebra?

There's not really any specific thing called "Pre-Algebra" in this curriculum. They learn the 6th-8th grade curriculum over two years. You can call the second half or the third third "Pre-Algebra" if you feel like it, I guess.

So if my kid isn’t getting through the 8th grade Illustrative Math in 7th he won’t be ready for algebra in 8th?

Well, I think if your kid's bright enough to take Algebra I in 8th, he'll probably be able to figure it out despite not taking 8th grade math. Whether the school will allow him to take Algebra I is a separate question.

That’s what I’m failing to understand. Doesn’t the content build on itself? It seems like you shouldn’t just be able to skip content because you are “bright”?

It does build on itself, but kids who are bright can usually figure it out as they go along. Or watch some YouTube videos about it, or the teacher or staff can give them a little extra help. It will be fine.

That still literally does not make sense to me.

I really don't know what else to tell you. If they're smart in math, with the teacher's help, they'll catch up as needed. Because that's part of what it means to be smart in math.

Are you asking this because your kid is not being allowed in Algebra? Or because you don't like that the school is putting your kid in Algebra?

I’m asking because I want my kid to be prepared for algebra, and in the absence of actual textbooks, it’s impossible for me to tell how I can make sure that happens. Based on the loosey-goosey approach of letting some kids skip 7th grade math and others skip 8th grade math, I’m coming to believe that maybe nobody is trying in DCPS to systematically prepare kids for algebra. If there isn’t a concrete sequence of knowledge that has to be built to enroll in algebra then it sounds possible that they just put the “smart kids” in algebra and give up on the rest. Would not surprise me!

Well, ask the school?

the school is zero help. and they just use zearn anyway.

[Anonymous]

There is a lot of spiraling in Math 6-8, so topics are revisited across the 3 years. Math 8 does not have a lot of new standards - maybe they go a little deeper than in Math 6 and 7 but not so much that a kid who really grasped the content in Math 6 and Math 7 wouldn’t be ready for Algebra. If you want to be certain your kid hasn’t missed anything, have them work through the classes on Khan Academy. They can “assess out” of content they already know and then spend a little more time on content they don’t know as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you look on the Illustrative website there's an explanation of the condensed version so the content of grades 6-8 is done in two years. Faster pace but also less built-in review.

Can you link? All I see is accelerated 6-7. Is the idea that 7th is prealgebra?

There's not really any specific thing called "Pre-Algebra" in this curriculum. They learn the 6th-8th grade curriculum over two years. You can call the second half or the third third "Pre-Algebra" if you feel like it, I guess.

So if my kid isn’t getting through the 8th grade Illustrative Math in 7th he won’t be ready for algebra in 8th?

Well, I think if your kid's bright enough to take Algebra I in 8th, he'll probably be able to figure it out despite not taking 8th grade math. Whether the school will allow him to take Algebra I is a separate question.

That’s what I’m failing to understand. Doesn’t the content build on itself? It seems like you shouldn’t just be able to skip content because you are “bright”?

It does build on itself, but kids who are bright can usually figure it out as they go along. Or watch some YouTube videos about it, or the teacher or staff can give them a little extra help. It will be fine.

That still literally does not make sense to me.

I really don't know what else to tell you. If they're smart in math, with the teacher's help, they'll catch up as needed. Because that's part of what it means to be smart in math.

Are you asking this because your kid is not being allowed in Algebra? Or because you don't like that the school is putting your kid in Algebra?

I’m asking because I want my kid to be prepared for algebra, and in the absence of actual textbooks, it’s impossible for me to tell how I can make sure that happens. Based on the loosey-goosey approach of letting some kids skip 7th grade math and others skip 8th grade math, I’m coming to believe that maybe nobody is trying in DCPS to systematically prepare kids for algebra. If there isn’t a concrete sequence of knowledge that has to be built to enroll in algebra then it sounds possible that they just put the “smart kids” in algebra and give up on the rest. Would not surprise me!

There's a lot of variety among DCPS schools. At Deal, they test them in 6th and start offering accelerated classes. Nothing is skipped, it's just done in a shorter period of time. Or some of 8th grade math is taught during the Algebra I course. There are lots of ways to do this. But you need to stop thinking of math learning as a rigid linear sequence. It does build on itself, but it's more flexible than you think. It has to be, because kids move here from other states and countries in every grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of spiraling in Math 6-8, so topics are revisited across the 3 years. Math 8 does not have a lot of new standards - maybe they go a little deeper than in Math 6 and 7 but not so much that a kid who really grasped the content in Math 6 and Math 7 wouldn’t be ready for Algebra. If you want to be certain your kid hasn’t missed anything, have them work through the classes on Khan Academy. They can “assess out” of content they already know and then spend a little more time on content they don’t know as well.

Thanks. Can you explain “spiraling”? Part of why I felt confused is that I saw a lot of the same topics repeated in the different curriculums for math 6-8 and prealgebra.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you look on the Illustrative website there's an explanation of the condensed version so the content of grades 6-8 is done in two years. Faster pace but also less built-in review.

Can you link? All I see is accelerated 6-7. Is the idea that 7th is prealgebra?

There's not really any specific thing called "Pre-Algebra" in this curriculum. They learn the 6th-8th grade curriculum over two years. You can call the second half or the third third "Pre-Algebra" if you feel like it, I guess.

So if my kid isn’t getting through the 8th grade Illustrative Math in 7th he won’t be ready for algebra in 8th?

Well, I think if your kid's bright enough to take Algebra I in 8th, he'll probably be able to figure it out despite not taking 8th grade math. Whether the school will allow him to take Algebra I is a separate question.

That’s what I’m failing to understand. Doesn’t the content build on itself? It seems like you shouldn’t just be able to skip content because you are “bright”?

It does build on itself, but kids who are bright can usually figure it out as they go along. Or watch some YouTube videos about it, or the teacher or staff can give them a little extra help. It will be fine.

That still literally does not make sense to me.

I really don't know what else to tell you. If they're smart in math, with the teacher's help, they'll catch up as needed. Because that's part of what it means to be smart in math.

Are you asking this because your kid is not being allowed in Algebra? Or because you don't like that the school is putting your kid in Algebra?

I’m asking because I want my kid to be prepared for algebra, and in the absence of actual textbooks, it’s impossible for me to tell how I can make sure that happens. Based on the loosey-goosey approach of letting some kids skip 7th grade math and others skip 8th grade math, I’m coming to believe that maybe nobody is trying in DCPS to systematically prepare kids for algebra. If there isn’t a concrete sequence of knowledge that has to be built to enroll in algebra then it sounds possible that they just put the “smart kids” in algebra and give up on the rest. Would not surprise me!

There's a lot of variety among DCPS schools. At Deal, they test them in 6th and start offering accelerated classes. Nothing is skipped, it's just done in a shorter period of time. Or some of 8th grade math is taught during the Algebra I course. There are lots of ways to do this. But you need to stop thinking of math learning as a rigid linear sequence. It does build on itself, but it's more flexible than you think. It has to be, because kids move here from other states and countries in every grade.

I actually need to know what the rigid, linear sequence is otherwise the school is going to let my kid learn zero. I get what you’re saying but it truly sounds like they could just stick the less-advanced kids in the slower class and just “spiral” the same material for 3 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you look on the Illustrative website there's an explanation of the condensed version so the content of grades 6-8 is done in two years. Faster pace but also less built-in review.

Can you link? All I see is accelerated 6-7. Is the idea that 7th is prealgebra?

There's not really any specific thing called "Pre-Algebra" in this curriculum. They learn the 6th-8th grade curriculum over two years. You can call the second half or the third third "Pre-Algebra" if you feel like it, I guess.

So if my kid isn’t getting through the 8th grade Illustrative Math in 7th he won’t be ready for algebra in 8th?

Well, I think if your kid's bright enough to take Algebra I in 8th, he'll probably be able to figure it out despite not taking 8th grade math. Whether the school will allow him to take Algebra I is a separate question.

That’s what I’m failing to understand. Doesn’t the content build on itself? It seems like you shouldn’t just be able to skip content because you are “bright”?

It does build on itself, but kids who are bright can usually figure it out as they go along. Or watch some YouTube videos about it, or the teacher or staff can give them a little extra help. It will be fine.

That still literally does not make sense to me.

I really don't know what else to tell you. If they're smart in math, with the teacher's help, they'll catch up as needed. Because that's part of what it means to be smart in math.

Are you asking this because your kid is not being allowed in Algebra? Or because you don't like that the school is putting your kid in Algebra?

I’m asking because I want my kid to be prepared for algebra, and in the absence of actual textbooks, it’s impossible for me to tell how I can make sure that happens. Based on the loosey-goosey approach of letting some kids skip 7th grade math and others skip 8th grade math, I’m coming to believe that maybe nobody is trying in DCPS to systematically prepare kids for algebra. If there isn’t a concrete sequence of knowledge that has to be built to enroll in algebra then it sounds possible that they just put the “smart kids” in algebra and give up on the rest. Would not surprise me!

There's a lot of variety among DCPS schools. At Deal, they test them in 6th and start offering accelerated classes. Nothing is skipped, it's just done in a shorter period of time. Or some of 8th grade math is taught during the Algebra I course. There are lots of ways to do this. But you need to stop thinking of math learning as a rigid linear sequence. It does build on itself, but it's more flexible than you think. It has to be, because kids move here from other states and countries in every grade.

I actually need to know what the rigid, linear sequence is otherwise the school is going to let my kid learn zero. I get what you’re saying but it truly sounds like they could just stick the less-advanced kids in the slower class and just “spiral” the same material for 3 years.

It depends on the curriculum. I'm sure if you review the website you'll be able to figure it out.

Spiraling is to return to the same concepts but at a higher level of complexity and inter-relatedness each time.

What people are trying to tell you is there isn't much truly new material in 8th grade math. It's a bummer but it's true, and that's what makes it mostly shippable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you look on the Illustrative website there's an explanation of the condensed version so the content of grades 6-8 is done in two years. Faster pace but also less built-in review.

Can you link? All I see is accelerated 6-7. Is the idea that 7th is prealgebra?

There's not really any specific thing called "Pre-Algebra" in this curriculum. They learn the 6th-8th grade curriculum over two years. You can call the second half or the third third "Pre-Algebra" if you feel like it, I guess.

So if my kid isn’t getting through the 8th grade Illustrative Math in 7th he won’t be ready for algebra in 8th?

Well, I think if your kid's bright enough to take Algebra I in 8th, he'll probably be able to figure it out despite not taking 8th grade math. Whether the school will allow him to take Algebra I is a separate question.

That’s what I’m failing to understand. Doesn’t the content build on itself? It seems like you shouldn’t just be able to skip content because you are “bright”?

The curriculum spirals so there is repeated content in 7th and 8th grade. That said, at a minimum I would want to do all the Khan 8th grade units if skipping the 8th grade content in school. -NP

[Anonymous]

The purpose of math 6-8 is to spoonfeed kids who can't learn algebra ad geometry directly after 5th grade. If your kid needs less spoon-feeding, they can go through it more quickly, in 2, 1, or 0 years.

Look at the curriculum on line. It's the same material year after year.

Math isn't a huge encyclopedia of facts to memorize. It's a very small set of core concepts they students spend a variable amount of time getting familiar with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The purpose of math 6-8 is to spoonfeed kids who can't learn algebra ad geometry directly after 5th grade. If your kid needs less spoon-feeding, they can go through it more quickly, in 2, 1, or 0 years.

Look at the curriculum on line. It's the same material year after year.

Math isn't a huge encyclopedia of facts to memorize. It's a very small set of core concepts they students spend a variable amount of time getting familiar with.

this is what I sort of was starting to think.

[Anonymous]

Illustrative is a free curriculum, so you can look it up yourself online. You can look at everything covered in 8th grade math and you can also have your student do the 8th grade illustrative math course on Khan Academy.

The main algebraic concepts covered in 8th grade that they will need to learn are:

- Linear equations with the variable on both sides (like 1/2x + 5 = 2x - 10)

- Solving systems of equations with graphing and substitution

- The basics of functions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Illustrative is a free curriculum, so you can look it up yourself online. You can look at everything covered in 8th grade math and you can also have your student do the 8th grade illustrative math course on Khan Academy.

The main algebraic concepts covered in 8th grade that they will need to learn are:

- Linear equations with the variable on both sides (like 1/2x + 5 = 2x - 10)

- Solving systems of equations with graphing and substitution

- The basics of functions

thanks for bearing with all my questions.

I have a smart but unmotivated 6th grader who is very alienated by the computer-first pedagogy. He’s fundamentally got no math issues except that Iready and Zearn are irritating and demotivating formats. I’m pretty sure he could learn those three things now with a human teaching him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you look on the Illustrative website there's an explanation of the condensed version so the content of grades 6-8 is done in two years. Faster pace but also less built-in review.

Can you link? All I see is accelerated 6-7. Is the idea that 7th is prealgebra?

There's not really any specific thing called "Pre-Algebra" in this curriculum. They learn the 6th-8th grade curriculum over two years. You can call the second half or the third third "Pre-Algebra" if you feel like it, I guess.

So if my kid isn’t getting through the 8th grade Illustrative Math in 7th he won’t be ready for algebra in 8th?

Well, I think if your kid's bright enough to take Algebra I in 8th, he'll probably be able to figure it out despite not taking 8th grade math. Whether the school will allow him to take Algebra I is a separate question.

That’s what I’m failing to understand. Doesn’t the content build on itself? It seems like you shouldn’t just be able to skip content because you are “bright”?

It does build on itself, but kids who are bright can usually figure it out as they go along. Or watch some YouTube videos about it, or the teacher or staff can give them a little extra help. It will be fine.

That still literally does not make sense to me.

I really don't know what else to tell you. If they're smart in math, with the teacher's help, they'll catch up as needed. Because that's part of what it means to be smart in math.

Are you asking this because your kid is not being allowed in Algebra? Or because you don't like that the school is putting your kid in Algebra?

I’m asking because I want my kid to be prepared for algebra, and in the absence of actual textbooks, it’s impossible for me to tell how I can make sure that happens. Based on the loosey-goosey approach of letting some kids skip 7th grade math and others skip 8th grade math, I’m coming to believe that maybe nobody is trying in DCPS to systematically prepare kids for algebra. If there isn’t a concrete sequence of knowledge that has to be built to enroll in algebra then it sounds possible that they just put the “smart kids” in algebra and give up on the rest. Would not surprise me!

There's a lot of variety among DCPS schools. At Deal, they test them in 6th and start offering accelerated classes. Nothing is skipped, it's just done in a shorter period of time. Or some of 8th grade math is taught during the Algebra I course. There are lots of ways to do this. But you need to stop thinking of math learning as a rigid linear sequence. It does build on itself, but it's more flexible than you think. It has to be, because kids move here from other states and countries in every grade.

This may have changed in the last couple of years, but when my kid was in 6th at Deal, the school gave iReady at the start of the year and kids who scored high enough completely skipped Math 6 and were put into Math 7. OP, if you can afford it, another option is Mathnasium. No computers - just kids working through math on paper with a math expert for every 4 or so kids to help teach when needed. We went to the one in Cathedral Commons and my kid really enjoyed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Illustrative is a free curriculum, so you can look it up yourself online. You can look at everything covered in 8th grade math and you can also have your student do the 8th grade illustrative math course on Khan Academy.

The main algebraic concepts covered in 8th grade that they will need to learn are:

- Linear equations with the variable on both sides (like 1/2x + 5 = 2x - 10)

- Solving systems of equations with graphing and substitution

- The basics of functions

thanks for bearing with all my questions.

I have a smart but unmotivated 6th grader who is very alienated by the computer-first pedagogy. He’s fundamentally got no math issues except that Iready and Zearn are irritating and demotivating formats. I’m pretty sure he could learn those three things now with a human teaching him.

So buy a $10 prealgebra workbook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Illustrative is a free curriculum, so you can look it up yourself online. You can look at everything covered in 8th grade math and you can also have your student do the 8th grade illustrative math course on Khan Academy.

The main algebraic concepts covered in 8th grade that they will need to learn are:

- Linear equations with the variable on both sides (like 1/2x + 5 = 2x - 10)

- Solving systems of equations with graphing and substitution

- The basics of functions

thanks for bearing with all my questions.

I have a smart but unmotivated 6th grader who is very alienated by the computer-first pedagogy. He’s fundamentally got no math issues except that Iready and Zearn are irritating and demotivating formats. I’m pretty sure he could learn those three things now with a human teaching him.

So buy a $10 prealgebra workbook.

Is it that much to ask that the school provide a sequenced curriculum that parents can support at home with actual materials, that sets out everything that needs to be learned in a year to progress to the next year?

I guess so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Illustrative is a free curriculum, so you can look it up yourself online. You can look at everything covered in 8th grade math and you can also have your student do the 8th grade illustrative math course on Khan Academy.

The main algebraic concepts covered in 8th grade that they will need to learn are:

- Linear equations with the variable on both sides (like 1/2x + 5 = 2x - 10)

- Solving systems of equations with graphing and substitution

- The basics of functions

thanks for bearing with all my questions.

I have a smart but unmotivated 6th grader who is very alienated by the computer-first pedagogy. He’s fundamentally got no math issues except that Iready and Zearn are irritating and demotivating formats. I’m pretty sure he could learn those three things now with a human teaching him.

So buy a $10 prealgebra workbook.

Is it that much to ask that the school provide a sequenced curriculum that parents can support at home with actual materials, that sets out everything that needs to be learned in a year to progress to the next year?

I guess so.

My friend, you do have a sequenced curriculum. It's called Illustrative Mathematics. You can view it here: https://illustrativemathematics.org/math-curriculum/6-8-math/ Here is a detailed course guide to 8th grade math: https://curriculum.illustrativemathematics.org/MS/teachers/3/narrative.html If you ask the school for at-home materials I'm sure they'll be happy to point you to some.

If you don't want your child to skip 8th grade math, discuss that with the school. If you have some sort of problem with spiraling, that's on you. Most people are fine with it, and it doesn't mean the curriculum isn't "sequenced". It's sequenced in a manner that involves some review, and that is a good thing because most kids benefit from a refresher or a more detailed look at something.

You are overestimating the extent to which math needs to be learned in a linear sequence. There isn't a single correct order of doing things. As a PP said, it's more like a group of concepts that need to be mastered but not necessarily one before another. More likely they all need to be learned concurrently at a gradually escalating level of complexity and inter-relation.

It seems like the real problem is you're unhappy with what you see as your son's lack of motivation and lack of cooperation with computer learning. Maybe you need to look into the reasons for that.