Improvement and time drop patterns

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had a boy and girl and been in the swimming game a long time. It's actually not that hard to predict. Boys get faster with puberty almost always (of course, puberty varies). Girls who were big for their age when they were young/go through puberty early often peak at 12-13. After that, they gain weight, get bigger hips/boobs, and they stop dropping time. Many of those girls quit. The girls who were good when they were young but not particularly big for their age (especially the ones on the thinner/taller side) tend to continue to do well post-puberty and stay swimming longer.

What does "big for their age" mean? Seems like you don't mean tall for their age given your comments about thinner/taller side, so do you mean muscular for their age?

By "big for their age" I generally mean tall and strong/thick...not super skinny. The tall/super skinny girls tend to do fine and keep swimming. Also, the 10-12 year olds who are tall because they have super tall parents often do just fine too because they end up giant (5'10" or whatever). It's the girls who get to their full height at 11 or 12 who, in my experience, often struggle later because they no longer have the size advantage (many girls who were smaller shoot past them) and then they get hips/boobs that generally make swimming harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had a boy and girl and been in the swimming game a long time. It's actually not that hard to predict. Boys get faster with puberty almost always (of course, puberty varies). Girls who were big for their age when they were young/go through puberty early often peak at 12-13. After that, they gain weight, get bigger hips/boobs, and they stop dropping time. Many of those girls quit. The girls who were good when they were young but not particularly big for their age (especially the ones on the thinner/taller side) tend to continue to do well post-puberty and stay swimming longer.

What does "big for their age" mean? Seems like you don't mean tall for their age given your comments about thinner/taller side, so do you mean muscular for their age?

By "big for their age" I generally mean tall and strong/thick...not super skinny. The tall/super skinny girls tend to do fine and keep swimming. Also, the 10-12 year olds who are tall because they have super tall parents often do just fine too because they end up giant (5'10" or whatever). It's the girls who get to their full height at 11 or 12 who, in my experience, often struggle later because they no longer have the size advantage (many girls who were smaller shoot past them) and then they get hips/boobs that generally make swimming harder.

This. I have seen the 5'5" or 5"6" tall girl at 11 - who looks like a giant by 15 is on the short side of swimming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had a boy and girl and been in the swimming game a long time. It's actually not that hard to predict. Boys get faster with puberty almost always (of course, puberty varies). Girls who were big for their age when they were young/go through puberty early often peak at 12-13. After that, they gain weight, get bigger hips/boobs, and they stop dropping time. Many of those girls quit. The girls who were good when they were young but not particularly big for their age (especially the ones on the thinner/taller side) tend to continue to do well post-puberty and stay swimming longer.

What does "big for their age" mean? Seems like you don't mean tall for their age given your comments about thinner/taller side, so do you mean muscular for their age?

By "big for their age" I generally mean tall and strong/thick...not super skinny. The tall/super skinny girls tend to do fine and keep swimming. Also, the 10-12 year olds who are tall because they have super tall parents often do just fine too because they end up giant (5'10" or whatever). It's the girls who get to their full height at 11 or 12 who, in my experience, often struggle later because they no longer have the size advantage (many girls who were smaller shoot past them) and then they get hips/boobs that generally make swimming harder.

This. I have seen the 5'5" or 5"6" tall girl at 11 - who looks like a giant by 15 is on the short side of swimming.

https://swimswam.com/the-shortest-male-olympic-swimming-medalists/

This is actually pretty interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had a boy and girl and been in the swimming game a long time. It's actually not that hard to predict. Boys get faster with puberty almost always (of course, puberty varies). Girls who were big for their age when they were young/go through puberty early often peak at 12-13. After that, they gain weight, get bigger hips/boobs, and they stop dropping time. Many of those girls quit. The girls who were good when they were young but not particularly big for their age (especially the ones on the thinner/taller side) tend to continue to do well post-puberty and stay swimming longer.

What does "big for their age" mean? Seems like you don't mean tall for their age given your comments about thinner/taller side, so do you mean muscular for their age?

By "big for their age" I generally mean tall and strong/thick...not super skinny. The tall/super skinny girls tend to do fine and keep swimming. Also, the 10-12 year olds who are tall because they have super tall parents often do just fine too because they end up giant (5'10" or whatever). It's the girls who get to their full height at 11 or 12 who, in my experience, often struggle later because they no longer have the size advantage (many girls who were smaller shoot past them) and then they get hips/boobs that generally make swimming harder.

This. I have seen the 5'5" or 5"6" tall girl at 11 - who looks like a giant by 15 is on the short side of swimming.

https://swimswam.com/the-shortest-male-olympic-swimming-medalists/

This is actually pretty interesting.

There are lots of examples like this. Isaac cooper, who just won a backstroke event at worlds in Japan is 5’11”. Hunter Armstrong finished second and he’s 6’6”. I read somewhere that katinka hosszu is 5’6”. Which is still above average for a woman in the us, not Katie ledecky or missy Franklin tall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had a boy and girl and been in the swimming game a long time. It's actually not that hard to predict. Boys get faster with puberty almost always (of course, puberty varies). Girls who were big for their age when they were young/go through puberty early often peak at 12-13. After that, they gain weight, get bigger hips/boobs, and they stop dropping time. Many of those girls quit. The girls who were good when they were young but not particularly big for their age (especially the ones on the thinner/taller side) tend to continue to do well post-puberty and stay swimming longer.

What does "big for their age" mean? Seems like you don't mean tall for their age given your comments about thinner/taller side, so do you mean muscular for their age?

By "big for their age" I generally mean tall and strong/thick...not super skinny. The tall/super skinny girls tend to do fine and keep swimming. Also, the 10-12 year olds who are tall because they have super tall parents often do just fine too because they end up giant (5'10" or whatever). It's the girls who get to their full height at 11 or 12 who, in my experience, often struggle later because they no longer have the size advantage (many girls who were smaller shoot past them) and then they get hips/boobs that generally make swimming harder.

I guess I haven't seen any of these strong/thick younger girls who are fast. The thick girls I've seen are also slow when they're young. All the fast young girls seem to be pretty skinny, and generally are tall (but not always).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had a boy and girl and been in the swimming game a long time. It's actually not that hard to predict. Boys get faster with puberty almost always (of course, puberty varies). Girls who were big for their age when they were young/go through puberty early often peak at 12-13. After that, they gain weight, get bigger hips/boobs, and they stop dropping time. Many of those girls quit. The girls who were good when they were young but not particularly big for their age (especially the ones on the thinner/taller side) tend to continue to do well post-puberty and stay swimming longer.

What does "big for their age" mean? Seems like you don't mean tall for their age given your comments about thinner/taller side, so do you mean muscular for their age?

By "big for their age" I generally mean tall and strong/thick...not super skinny. The tall/super skinny girls tend to do fine and keep swimming. Also, the 10-12 year olds who are tall because they have super tall parents often do just fine too because they end up giant (5'10" or whatever). It's the girls who get to their full height at 11 or 12 who, in my experience, often struggle later because they no longer have the size advantage (many girls who were smaller shoot past them) and then they get hips/boobs that generally make swimming harder.

I guess I haven't seen any of these strong/thick younger girls who are fast. The thick girls I've seen are also slow when they're young. All the fast young girls seem to be pretty skinny, and generally are tall (but not always).

We may have different definitions of thick. You may be calling them muscular. The ones who seem to do well as they age are the ones who are thin when they're young.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had a boy and girl and been in the swimming game a long time. It's actually not that hard to predict. Boys get faster with puberty almost always (of course, puberty varies). Girls who were big for their age when they were young/go through puberty early often peak at 12-13. After that, they gain weight, get bigger hips/boobs, and they stop dropping time. Many of those girls quit. The girls who were good when they were young but not particularly big for their age (especially the ones on the thinner/taller side) tend to continue to do well post-puberty and stay swimming longer.

What does "big for their age" mean? Seems like you don't mean tall for their age given your comments about thinner/taller side, so do you mean muscular for their age?

By "big for their age" I generally mean tall and strong/thick...not super skinny. The tall/super skinny girls tend to do fine and keep swimming. Also, the 10-12 year olds who are tall because they have super tall parents often do just fine too because they end up giant (5'10" or whatever). It's the girls who get to their full height at 11 or 12 who, in my experience, often struggle later because they no longer have the size advantage (many girls who were smaller shoot past them) and then they get hips/boobs that generally make swimming harder.

This. I have seen the 5'5" or 5"6" tall girl at 11 - who looks like a giant by 15 is on the short side of swimming.

https://swimswam.com/the-shortest-male-olympic-swimming-medalists/

This is actually pretty interesting.

There are lots of examples like this. Isaac cooper, who just won a backstroke event at worlds in Japan is 5’11”. Hunter Armstrong finished second and he’s 6’6”. I read somewhere that katinka hosszu is 5’6”. Which is still above average for a woman in the us, not Katie ledecky or missy Franklin tall.

Most really good swimmers are tall. There are some exceptions, but most are tall (especially freestylers and backstrokers). There are some breaststrokers who are on the shorter side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had a boy and girl and been in the swimming game a long time. It's actually not that hard to predict. Boys get faster with puberty almost always (of course, puberty varies). Girls who were big for their age when they were young/go through puberty early often peak at 12-13. After that, they gain weight, get bigger hips/boobs, and they stop dropping time. Many of those girls quit. The girls who were good when they were young but not particularly big for their age (especially the ones on the thinner/taller side) tend to continue to do well post-puberty and stay swimming longer.

What does "big for their age" mean? Seems like you don't mean tall for their age given your comments about thinner/taller side, so do you mean muscular for their age?

By "big for their age" I generally mean tall and strong/thick...not super skinny. The tall/super skinny girls tend to do fine and keep swimming. Also, the 10-12 year olds who are tall because they have super tall parents often do just fine too because they end up giant (5'10" or whatever). It's the girls who get to their full height at 11 or 12 who, in my experience, often struggle later because they no longer have the size advantage (many girls who were smaller shoot past them) and then they get hips/boobs that generally make swimming harder.

This matches my own experience exactly. Before age 14-15 I always came in third or fourth at the big meets (e.g. summer all stars or age group champs) to girls who were bigger/stronger than me. I wanted to be like them so badly because they were faster and winning the meets/breaking records. I used to eat junk food after school in an effort to "bulk up"! Then they all stopped getting taller and became more curvy because that was their body type. Meanwhile I kept growing a little even past puberty. We all ended up swimming D1 in college, but I was at a power 5 school while they ended up at mid-major schools. A couple of them went to schools geographically close to mine, so our teams swam against each other once or twice. It was surreal to beat them after coming in behind them for so many years. I never would have predicted it at age 12. Being tall is no guarantee to become a great swimmer, but a tall girl who is pretty fast but not the fastest often does end up passing the super fast girl who's going to max out at 5'5".

[Anonymous]

My newly turned 13 yo daughter has reached her full height at 5’4, is done with the puberty changes, and has never been “thick/muscular” OR “super skinny.” My best description would be average build and very fit. She’s definitely never been tall, usually mid range height in comparison to her peers. She’s not a speedster either—for 11/12 she averaged BB times on free/back, and B times on fly/breast. It seems this group is telling me she’s doomed to stay at those times despite continuing work on technique, increased conditioning, and top notch coaching. I hope that’s not the case—she loves the sport and works hard. I hope to see her bump up at least to BB and A times but who knows. We (and I mean both her and myself) don’t have aspirations for a glorious college swim career, just average participation in the high school swim team and a continued love of swimming that she can carry on to adulthood and use to stay active. Is there room in the swim scene for these types of swimmers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My newly turned 13 yo daughter has reached her full height at 5’4, is done with the puberty changes, and has never been “thick/muscular” OR “super skinny.” My best description would be average build and very fit. She’s definitely never been tall, usually mid range height in comparison to her peers. She’s not a speedster either—for 11/12 she averaged BB times on free/back, and B times on fly/breast. It seems this group is telling me she’s doomed to stay at those times despite continuing work on technique, increased conditioning, and top notch coaching. I hope that’s not the case—she loves the sport and works hard. I hope to see her bump up at least to BB and A times but who knows. We (and I mean both her and myself) don’t have aspirations for a glorious college swim career, just average participation in the high school swim team and a continued love of swimming that she can carry on to adulthood and use to stay active. Is there room in the swim scene for these types of swimmers?

Forgot to add…my 5’4 daughter does have size 9.5 feet. Can we rely on this to bring her all the swim glory?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My newly turned 13 yo daughter has reached her full height at 5’4, is done with the puberty changes, and has never been “thick/muscular” OR “super skinny.” My best description would be average build and very fit. She’s definitely never been tall, usually mid range height in comparison to her peers. She’s not a speedster either—for 11/12 she averaged BB times on free/back, and B times on fly/breast. It seems this group is telling me she’s doomed to stay at those times despite continuing work on technique, increased conditioning, and top notch coaching. I hope that’s not the case—she loves the sport and works hard. I hope to see her bump up at least to BB and A times but who knows. We (and I mean both her and myself) don’t have aspirations for a glorious college swim career, just average participation in the high school swim team and a continued love of swimming that she can carry on to adulthood and use to stay active. Is there room in the swim scene for these types of swimmers?

Not sure how you can know she’s done growing. But if she really never makes it past 5’4”, has finished puberty, and she’s only a BB right now, I wouldn’t expect lots of future improvements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My newly turned 13 yo daughter has reached her full height at 5’4, is done with the puberty changes, and has never been “thick/muscular” OR “super skinny.” My best description would be average build and very fit. She’s definitely never been tall, usually mid range height in comparison to her peers. She’s not a speedster either—for 11/12 she averaged BB times on free/back, and B times on fly/breast. It seems this group is telling me she’s doomed to stay at those times despite continuing work on technique, increased conditioning, and top notch coaching. I hope that’s not the case—she loves the sport and works hard. I hope to see her bump up at least to BB and A times but who knows. We (and I mean both her and myself) don’t have aspirations for a glorious college swim career, just average participation in the high school swim team and a continued love of swimming that she can carry on to adulthood and use to stay active. Is there room in the swim scene for these types of swimmers?

I know two girls who continued to improve. One went from B times to BB times while another went from BB times to A.

My daughter knows one girl better than the other. She says the slower swimmer is a very hard worker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My newly turned 13 yo daughter has reached her full height at 5’4, is done with the puberty changes, and has never been “thick/muscular” OR “super skinny.” My best description would be average build and very fit. She’s definitely never been tall, usually mid range height in comparison to her peers. She’s not a speedster either—for 11/12 she averaged BB times on free/back, and B times on fly/breast. It seems this group is telling me she’s doomed to stay at those times despite continuing work on technique, increased conditioning, and top notch coaching. I hope that’s not the case—she loves the sport and works hard. I hope to see her bump up at least to BB and A times but who knows. We (and I mean both her and myself) don’t have aspirations for a glorious college swim career, just average participation in the high school swim team and a continued love of swimming that she can carry on to adulthood and use to stay active. Is there room in the swim scene for these types of swimmers?

Forgot to add…my 5’4 daughter does have size 9.5 feet. Can we rely on this to bring her all the swim glory?

there is always hope - and there is always triathlon to try

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My newly turned 13 yo daughter has reached her full height at 5’4, is done with the puberty changes, and has never been “thick/muscular” OR “super skinny.” My best description would be average build and very fit. She’s definitely never been tall, usually mid range height in comparison to her peers. She’s not a speedster either—for 11/12 she averaged BB times on free/back, and B times on fly/breast. It seems this group is telling me she’s doomed to stay at those times despite continuing work on technique, increased conditioning, and top notch coaching. I hope that’s not the case—she loves the sport and works hard. I hope to see her bump up at least to BB and A times but who knows. We (and I mean both her and myself) don’t have aspirations for a glorious college swim career, just average participation in the high school swim team and a continued love of swimming that she can carry on to adulthood and use to stay active. Is there room in the swim scene for these types of swimmers?

Forgot to add…my 5’4 daughter does have size 9.5 feet. Can we rely on this to bring her all the swim glory?

there is always hope - and there is always triathlon to try

I was going to add that distance swimming is more forgiving about heights (1650) and also with HS swim she will be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My newly turned 13 yo daughter has reached her full height at 5’4, is done with the puberty changes, and has never been “thick/muscular” OR “super skinny.” My best description would be average build and very fit. She’s definitely never been tall, usually mid range height in comparison to her peers. She’s not a speedster either—for 11/12 she averaged BB times on free/back, and B times on fly/breast. It seems this group is telling me she’s doomed to stay at those times despite continuing work on technique, increased conditioning, and top notch coaching. I hope that’s not the case—she loves the sport and works hard. I hope to see her bump up at least to BB and A times but who knows. We (and I mean both her and myself) don’t have aspirations for a glorious college swim career, just average participation in the high school swim team and a continued love of swimming that she can carry on to adulthood and use to stay active. Is there room in the swim scene for these types of swimmers?

Forgot to add…my 5’4 daughter does have size 9.5 feet. Can we rely on this to bring her all the swim glory?

there is always hope - and there is always triathlon to try

I was going to add that distance swimming is more forgiving about heights (1650) and also with HS swim she will be fine.

Yes, the shortest girl on my college team was 5’4” and a distance swimmer. But not the most fun life in college when everyone is hyper specialized. Sprinters get to train for explosiveness while you stare at the black line for hours.

Also, some of the large public high schools around here do require swimmers to have A times to realistically make the team.