Why do Americans love dogs so much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

I agree but I did hear of one that sounded great. You pay a membership and each dog is assessed fir behavior issues. Have to prove vaccines are up to date
Unfortunately it is in Michigan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

Can we PLEASE stop comparing dogs to human children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

Can we PLEASE stop comparing dogs to human children?

Nope! You are going to have to stop reading those posts if it offends you so much. It is convenient to compare the two in that people spend money, energy and time on both. Yes, we prioritize children but, it is still a good comparison in many cases.

If you are offended move on. Don't expect others to change for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

How can they be lazy if they want to take their dogs on walks? Isn't that contradictory? Lazy people would stay at home! And it is reasonable to expect amenities in a community where you pay taxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

How can they be lazy if they want to take their dogs on walks? Isn't that contradictory? Lazy people would stay at home! And it is reasonable to expect amenities in a community where you pay taxes.

But that’s the point- they don’t want to take them on walks. They want to stand around on their phone while their dog sprints off leash around a public park (but not the dog park, an amenity that their taxes also paid for, because their dog is too reactive for a dog park. They’d rather the dog terrorize children and joggers instead)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

How can they be lazy if they want to take their dogs on walks? Isn't that contradictory? Lazy people would stay at home! And it is reasonable to expect amenities in a community where you pay taxes.

It's lazy to expect your neighborhood to magically fill your need for a dog-specific park just because you decided to adopt a dog who needs a lot of exercise. These dog owners could travel further to existing dog parks, but that would require time and effort and they want their large, energetic dog to fit easily into their urban lifestyle and busy professional schedule. So the cry about how there isn't a dog park right convenient to their house even thought they made no effort to think this through before adopting their dog.

It is lazy to make major life choices, discover after the fact that they don't really work with your other major life choices, and instead of fixing that mismatch yourself, expecting your neighbors and tax payers to fix it for you. If you want a giant dog that needs to spend 2 hours a day running around, then go get a house with a yard or near a dog-friendly trail or across from an existing dog park, or be willing to travel to those places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

+1000
I visited my sister in Tokyo and saw plenty of dogs at outdoor cafes and such and not one was over 20 pounds. No one would dream of owning a large, energetic dog in a city. But here most of the dogs I see are enormous and were bred for heavy outdoor activity. I don't even care for dogs and I feel so sorry for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

How can they be lazy if they want to take their dogs on walks? Isn't that contradictory? Lazy people would stay at home! And it is reasonable to expect amenities in a community where you pay taxes.

But that’s the point- they don’t want to take them on walks. They want to stand around on their phone while their dog sprints off leash around a public park (but not the dog park, an amenity that their taxes also paid for, because their dog is too reactive for a dog park. They’d rather the dog terrorize children and joggers instead)

This.

There is a group of dog owners in my neighborhood working hard to colonize a playground/recreational field for their dogs. The playground and field have been in the neighborhood for 15 years. Many of us with kids moved here in part because it exists and is so convenient and big. All these dog owners either moved her in the last few years or just adopted dogs in the last few years (in most cases both) and they think it's deeply unfair that dogs are not allowed off leash at this park. After all, it would be so convenient to them to let their dogs run around off leash at this park. There are dog parks in the neighborhood but you have to walk further to get to them, something apparently none of these people considered before adopting their dogs.

Lazy AF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

+1000
I visited my sister in Tokyo and saw plenty of dogs at outdoor cafes and such and not one was over 20 pounds. No one would dream of owning a large, energetic dog in a city. But here most of the dogs I see are enormous and were bred for heavy outdoor activity. I don't even care for dogs and I feel so sorry for them.

This. I don't think "Americans love dogs so much" as the title of the thread says. I think Americans actually mistreat their dogs and have unrealistic expectations about dogs because they romanticize them. People love dogs all over the world, but sometimes loving dogs means NOT adopting one, or not adopting one that is poorly suited to where you live, because that will suck for the dog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

How can they be lazy if they want to take their dogs on walks? Isn't that contradictory? Lazy people would stay at home! And it is reasonable to expect amenities in a community where you pay taxes.

But that’s the point- they don’t want to take them on walks. They want to stand around on their phone while their dog sprints off leash around a public park (but not the dog park, an amenity that their taxes also paid for, because their dog is too reactive for a dog park. They’d rather the dog terrorize children and joggers instead)

This.

There is a group of dog owners in my neighborhood working hard to colonize a playground/recreational field for their dogs. The playground and field have been in the neighborhood for 15 years. Many of us with kids moved here in part because it exists and is so convenient and big. All these dog owners either moved her in the last few years or just adopted dogs in the last few years (in most cases both) and they think it's deeply unfair that dogs are not allowed off leash at this park. After all, it would be so convenient to them to let their dogs run around off leash at this park. There are dog parks in the neighborhood but you have to walk further to get to them, something apparently none of these people considered before adopting their dogs.

Lazy AF.

Would you say parents are lazy AF if they want playgrounds close to their home to allow their children run around while caregivers are on their phones ? Probably not!

Also you can't speak for all large dog owners. Most take dogs for walks but they realize dogs like off leash play with their friends. I see nothing wrong in allowing off leash get togethers when the field is not occupied with children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

How can they be lazy if they want to take their dogs on walks? Isn't that contradictory? Lazy people would stay at home! And it is reasonable to expect amenities in a community where you pay taxes.

But that’s the point- they don’t want to take them on walks. They want to stand around on their phone while their dog sprints off leash around a public park (but not the dog park, an amenity that their taxes also paid for, because their dog is too reactive for a dog park. They’d rather the dog terrorize children and joggers instead)

This.

There is a group of dog owners in my neighborhood working hard to colonize a playground/recreational field for their dogs. The playground and field have been in the neighborhood for 15 years. Many of us with kids moved here in part because it exists and is so convenient and big. All these dog owners either moved her in the last few years or just adopted dogs in the last few years (in most cases both) and they think it's deeply unfair that dogs are not allowed off leash at this park. After all, it would be so convenient to them to let their dogs run around off leash at this park. There are dog parks in the neighborhood but you have to walk further to get to them, something apparently none of these people considered before adopting their dogs.

Lazy AF.

You are the reason I only talk to my dog most days, I am hating humans more and more everyday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read this thread and thought about it a lot, and I think I've figured it out.

It's not about loving dogs. As many posters have pointed out. People love dogs all over the world. Dogs are inherently lovable (not to everyone, but to many, many humans).

It's about Americaness. American individuality makes American dog owners more selfish and annoying than dog owners in other places.

In France, yes, people love their dogs. They bring them everywhere and also there are negative externalities from the dogs -- plenty of dog$hit on the street, dog hair in markets, etc. If you hate dogs, this is quite annoying. If you are indifferent to dogs, it might also be annoying, except...

In France they also take care of people, not just dogs. They have a government pension for retirees. They have free and heavily subsidized childcare, plus families who have kids get money from the government for their kids. They have generous unemployment for people who have lost jobs, and job retraining programs for people whose industries go obsolete. In France, there is a cultural imperative to care for people, so the fact that people ALSO care for dogs is not so annoying. (Yes, yes, I'm gliding over aspects of French government and society that aren't so great -- the racism, anti-immigrant stance, the misogyny built into their marital laws and culture, the high taxes and incredibly opaque administrative nonsense that everything requires -- I'm not a Francophile, but on balance, French people are more socialist than Americans, who are more individualist).

In America, we have very little collectivism. It's me, me, me. And when Americans love their dogs, it's my dog, my dog, my dog. This is why in the US, dogs and children are bizarrely pitted against each other for resources like public parks (why??? this is very weird -- there should be public spaces for children and people with dogs). This is why dog owners defy rules about not having dogs in certain places (in France these rules simply do not exist, it's a different set up entirely), and also why people get so angry at dog owners for doing it. It's an individualist culture where we are all pitted agains one another for the same resources. Dog owners are hostile in trying to claim some of those resources for their dogs, and people are hostile in return because when a dog is given a resource, it often means someone else loses a resources.

Many American problems can be traced back to a culture that values the individual over the group. Even the individual dog over the community.

Ok, you can all call me a Marxist idiot now! Enjoy!

You idea that you have "figured it out" is wrong totally wrong. What do you say about the tons of organizations and local governments whose sole purpose is to help humans? How can you say with wide sweaping generations that we have "very little collectivism?" When there is a natural disaster neighbors pull together.

How can you call dog owners in America more selfish than any other group? Even within Americans there are varying degrees. Lots of people defy rules not just dog owners. Heck sometimes the rules do need to be bent a little!

the part where you say "dog owners are hostle in trying to claim those resources and someone else loses one?" Please explain. How is having a dog park for example mean that someone else is losing? If kids have a playground how am I as a dog owner losing out? I think playgrounds are great for kids!

Anyway you are 1,000 percent wrong on your thoughts. Go back to the drawing board!

I’m a new poster, I live in Baltimore, there is a park near me and they are using a portion of it to build a sports field for kids rec sports and certain people are up in arms because that’s the field they like to run their dogs off leash on (illegally) and want it to be a dog park instead.

A dog park instead of a children’s sports field.

So yes, it’s no wonder there is animosity between families with kids (and sometimes they have dogs too!) and single 25 year olds with their dog who think the city should be set up with nothing but bars and dog parks

This is the way of the world! On group wants one thing and another group wabts something else. That is still humans/humans. I doubt the dogs are up in arms or writing emails to complain.
Do you not think that dog owners also contribute and pay taxes? If dog owners are in an open empty field and use it ( cleaning up) why is that so wrong?

Are you and your kids going to be there at 5:30am?

I would not be against the kids'sport field but it would be nice to accomdate both

Well they’re off leash , and no, the owners don’t pick up. Nobody likes it’s except the certain dog owners who do it and they are the loud vocal minority

ALL the dog owners or just a few?

As an owner who picks up diarrhea and sprays the area with water plus regularly picks up doodies not attributed to my own dog, this is annoying. We exist. I scream at off leash dogs and berate their owners. This is irresponsible ownership. At the same time, if you make things exceptionally hard for dog owners they will push the rules.

In my case (Baltimore) there is a fenced dog park less than one mile down the road. I’ve asked people why they don’t use it and they say something like, my dog is too reactive for that crowded dog park 😂 so their solution is to allow their reactive dog to run off leash around a public park instead

Oh, well dog parks are HORRIBLE and the main cause of dog-reactive dogs that NO vet or trainer will ever recommend so while this sounds confusing it actually makes some sense. They're looking to exercise their dogs in a place that's not a gentrified dog fighting ring where it can be alone and while the dog may be dog reactive it isn't necessarily human reactive. Dog parks should be entirely abolished and are more of a problem than a solution to anything.

Well they can come up with a solution that doesn’t include their dog sprinting around a public park while elementary kids are trying to walk to school. Such as, don’t have a giant dog needing tons of exercise in a city row home with no yard.

Yeah the core of the problem is all these people getting energetic, large dogs but assuming that the community will provide them with places to exercise that are also convenient enough to their (tiny) homes that they can do this easily on a lunch break or after getting home from work.

It is not unlike people who have kids and then want to take them to bars and movies and concerts and are surprised when some of these places are not kid friendly.

People are deeply entitled (and lazy!) these days.

How can they be lazy if they want to take their dogs on walks? Isn't that contradictory? Lazy people would stay at home! And it is reasonable to expect amenities in a community where you pay taxes.

But that’s the point- they don’t want to take them on walks. They want to stand around on their phone while their dog sprints off leash around a public park (but not the dog park, an amenity that their taxes also paid for, because their dog is too reactive for a dog park. They’d rather the dog terrorize children and joggers instead)

This.

There is a group of dog owners in my neighborhood working hard to colonize a playground/recreational field for their dogs. The playground and field have been in the neighborhood for 15 years. Many of us with kids moved here in part because it exists and is so convenient and big. All these dog owners either moved her in the last few years or just adopted dogs in the last few years (in most cases both) and they think it's deeply unfair that dogs are not allowed off leash at this park. After all, it would be so convenient to them to let their dogs run around off leash at this park. There are dog parks in the neighborhood but you have to walk further to get to them, something apparently none of these people considered before adopting their dogs.

Lazy AF.

Would you say parents are lazy AF if they want playgrounds close to their home to allow their children run around while caregivers are on their phones ? Probably not!

Also you can't speak for all large dog owners. Most take dogs for walks but they realize dogs like off leash play with their friends. I see nothing wrong in allowing off leash get togethers when the field is not occupied with children.

Yet again you equate children and dogs as if they were equal. I don't care if dogs like off leash play with their "friends". You live in a city and large dogs do not belong in cities. Your dog will be long dead when my kids will be paying for your nursing home care.